Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[Number37]

If Australia became 50/60/70/80/90% muslim shouldn't we support them to implement whatever law suits them?
If they are the majority, isn't it their right to do what suits them?
Democracy n'all?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If Australia became 50/60/70/80/90% muslim shouldn't we support them to implement whatever law suits them?
If they are the majority, isn't it their right to do what suits them?
Democracy n'all?

Which is why a lot of people really don't want that scenario.
Some of the laws that might suit them are pretty messed up garbage.

Democracy can suck at times.

Half the population are below average , but they have equal say.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

1997 when homosexuality stopp being illegal anywhere in Australia wasn't the stone age.

I think Australia is more culturally advanced than Saudia Arabia, but I don't htink that religion has played as big a role in it as you - it's been the secularism built into our constitution, democracy and education that has enabled Australians to move past religious doctrine. And the muslims in Australia are Australians - most of whom will come along for the ride, just as most Christians have moved away from that crap.

When was the last time anyone in Australia was prosecuted for being homosexual?

 

[Chief]

I'll pull out of this discussion because you and others are just going to strawman me.

It's best to post your opinion of the article or the point you are making with the article, otherwise this sort of confusion happens and people fill in your reasons for posting it.

 

[sr36]

When was the last time anyone in Australia was prosecuted for being homosexual?

Just googled it - 1984, but not for being homosexual - for performing a homosexual act. It's bloody recent. Homosexuality is forbidden in all the Abrahamic religions, not just Islam. Whether or not it is illegal in a society tends to depend on the level of secularism in that country - eg it is not illegal in Turkey. Sodomy is illegal in Malaysia - but that is a relic of British Christian colonial rule - it's not generally an enforced law in Malaysia.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just googled it - 1984, but not for being homosexual - for performing a homosexual act.

Yep they were doing it in a car on the side of the road. It was Tasmania, the last state to decriminalise it. He got some months in Jail, which makes me wonder if there might be a bit more to it.

Meanwhile in Iran 2022, two guys were hanged.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Thought i'd look up Indonesia, to see if its a middle east , or a Muslim thing , seems they are a basket case.

LGBT rights in Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This one surprised me

"In December 2022, the Indonesian House of Representatives has passed a bill that outlaws sex outside of marriage between heterosexuals"

How to shoot your tourism industry in the foot.

 

[sr36]

Yep they were doing it in a car on the side of the road. It was Tasmania, the last state to decriminalise it. He got some months in Jail, which makes me wonder if there might be a bit more to it.

Meanwhile in Iran 2022, two guys were hanged.

Yes I know there are some incredibly repressive Islamic regimes.

 

[Seeds]

If Australia became 50/60/70/80/90% muslim shouldn't we support them to implement whatever law suits them?
If they are the majority, isn't it their right to do what suits them?
Democracy n'all?

Australias sole value isnt democracy. If anything its liberalism. Democracy is only part of our system and is used to serve liberalism. People through government dont get to vote on anything. Only a small subset of ideas where liberalism doesnt have a clear answer do elected governments actually have choices on. For instance, people dont get to vote on what human rights are. Only the supreme court does and they arent democractially elected. People dont get to vote on interest rate policy. Only the central bank does and they arent democratically elected. People dont get to vote on installing the church into government or public schools. Seperation of church and government is an enshrined liberal value. People dont get to vote on what medicines are approved etc etc.

 

[rank and file]

Sodomy is illegal in Malaysia - but that is a relic of British Christian colonial rule - it's not generally an enforced law in Malaysia.

Anwar Ibrahim,Malaysian politician begs to differ.

 

[Malifice]

Through a referendum changing that…

In what bizzarro land do we have a majority of people, in a majority of States, desiring Sharia law?

Is it going to happen any time soon of course not.

Mate, we have a majority Christians, with literal Christian political parties (Fred Nile etc) and a former PM who was a trained Catholic Priest (Abbott), and with the Happy Clappers at Hillsong more or less running the NSW branch of the Liberals (and backing Morrison, another devoutly religious PM).

While they all tried to weasel in various Christian nonsense (Priests in schools, anti LGBTI laws etc) they couldnt get much of anything done, even with majority support for their religion.

Arent you jumping at shadows a little here?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If it wasn't for their little breeding problem, we should be more afraid of being overrun by LGBT's.

Current population of Muslims , 3.2%

How many Australians are gay? A landmark new study might have the answer

The study reveals for the first time how many Australians identify as non-heterosexual and gender diverse, including trans, and the hardships they face.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Number37]

Australias sole value isnt democracy. If anything its liberalism. Democracy is only part of our system and is used to serve liberalism. People through government dont get to vote on anything. Only a small subset of ideas where liberalism doesnt have a clear answer do elected governments actually have choices on. For instance, people dont get to vote on what human rights are. Only the supreme court does and they arent democractially elected. People dont get to vote on interest rate policy. Only the central bank does and they arent democratically elected. People dont get to vote on installing the church into government or public schools. Seperation of church and government is an enshrined liberal value. People dont get to vote on what medicines are approved etc etc.

We don't individually get to vote on any legislative matters.
We elect representatives to vote on legislative matters on our behalf.
Liberalism is the buzz word of people who don't like democracy because sometimes they don't get what they want.
Democracy is the cornerstone of our system of government.
Elections. Voting. Both compulsory.

 

[Number37]

Which is why a lot of people really don't want that scenario.
Some of the laws that might suit them are pretty messed up garbage.

Democracy can suck at times.

Half the population are below average , but they have equal say.

They would need a majority in the majority of states to change the Constitution.

 

[sr36]

Anwar Ibrahim,Malaysian politician begs to differ.

Not generally enforced changes when there's a prime minister to oust.

 

[rank and file]

Not generally enforced changes when there's a prime minister to oust.

Was some saga,dragged on for 2 decades.

 

[sr36]

Was some saga,dragged on for 2 decades.

I was living there during one period that he was pm and got arrested. I went to work and no one was even talking about it as the PM beng arrested was so standard.

 

[rank and file]

I was living there during one period that he was pm and got arrested. I went to work and no one was even talking about it as the PM beng arrested was so standard.

Lol and now imprisoned ex PM Najib Razak's lawyers tried to get Netflix doco Man on the Run banned.
Jho Low still living large.

 

[ShanDog]

Just googled it - 1984, but not for being homosexual - for performing a homosexual act. It's bloody recent. Homosexuality is forbidden in all the Abrahamic religions, not just Islam. Whether or not it is illegal in a society tends to depend on the level of secularism in that country - eg it is not illegal in Turkey. Sodomy is illegal in Malaysia - but that is a relic of British Christian colonial rule - it's not generally an enforced law in Malaysia.

It really not recent at all in context. There has been an unbelievable amount of improvements regarding acceptance and tolerance in society and in law over the past 40 years. In that regard, there's a giant gulf between pretty much every other time in history compared to today, even 1984.

And really, it was 40 years ago. What % of BigFooty posters do you think were alive when that happened? 20% 10% maybe?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It really not recent at all in context. There has been an unbelievable amount of improvements regarding acceptance and tolerance in society and in law over the past 40 years. In that regard, there's a giant gulf between pretty much every other time in history compared to today, even 1984.

And really, it was 40 years ago. What % of BigFooty posters do you think were alive when that happened? 20% 10% maybe?

Even in 1984, it wasn't illegal in most states, and Tasmania was seen as backward.

Might have been the aspect of doing it in the car on the side of the road the cops didn't like.
Maybe the details of that one have been lost in time.

 

[sr36]

It really not recent at all in context. There has been an unbelievable amount of improvements regarding acceptance and tolerance in society and in law over the past 40 years. In that regard, there's a giant gulf between pretty much every other time in history compared to today, even 1984.

And really, it was 40 years ago. What % of BigFooty posters do you think were alive when that happened? 20% 10% maybe?

Were our grandparents innately inferior to us? Should we have been worried about their children and grandchildren becoming the majority due to their attitudes towards gender, race and sexuality?

We're products of our environment. The assumption that a Muslim's Australian grandkids will be less inclusive than a Christian's Australian grandkids is akin to the assumption that those brown skinned folk were stupid because their culture used primitive tools. And they're both underpinned by the ridiculous assumption that all cultures should have evolved to be at the same point at the same time.

 

[Number37]

Even in 1984, it wasn't illegal in most states, and Tasmania was seen as backward.

Might have been the aspect of doing it in the car on the side of the road the cops didn't like.
Maybe the details of that one have been lost in time.

Until 1990 it was impossible for a man to rape his wife.
ie until 1990 marriage = consent.

The idea that Western society is miles ahead of those backward people is based on nothing but fantasy.

 

[ShanDog]

Were our grandparents innately inferior to us? Should we have been worried about their children and grandchildren becoming the majority due to their attitudes towards gender, race and sexuality?

We're products of our environment. The assumption that a Muslim's Australian grandkids will be less inclusive than a Christian's Australian grandkids is akin to the assumption that those brown skinned folk were stupid because their culture used primitive tools. And they're both underpinned by the ridiculous assumption that all cultures should have evolved to be at the same point at the same time.

I dunno who you were supposed to be replying to, but from the looks of that post, it definitely wasn't me!

 

[ShanDog]

Until 1990 it was impossible for a man to rape his wife.
ie until 1990 marriage = consent.

The idea that Western society is miles ahead of those backward people is based on nothing but fantasy.

I'm not sure anyone was making this argument, but regardless, you legitimately believe that Western society on the whole is not far and away better on human/social rights and liberal laws than effectively everywhere else? If so, where else does it as well or even better?

 

[sr36]

I dunno who you were supposed to be replying to, but from the looks of that post, it definitely wasn't me!

The first part is a reply to you. The secomd half more of a general rant.

First half is saying that 40 years ago isn't far removed from us. It's a generation and a third by current birth age - less than the difference between us and our grandparents.