Hot Topic Will Elijah Hollands get another gig at Carlton?

[Aphrodite]

No speculating on alleged 'rumours'

Thanks all!

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

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None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.
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Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Foucault1989]

I have stated what he has done I personally would struggle to forgive or trust him. That’s my opinion based on what I know.

I haven’t, and I can’t find anyone else that has said he’s not welcome back at club. That was the comment I questioned

The club are giving him a chance to prove himself. Those are the facts and that is all that matters. Simple

What has he done?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

My understanding is this is pretty common for AFL and sports contracts in general. This includes coaches. I remember clarko got the big payout from hawthorn but if he'd taken another job in the next year it would have eaten into the payout... not money on top of his payout.

You're right in that behavioural clauses are very common in professional sports contracts, they typically cover public conduct, personal lifestyle choices, and (especially relevant for modern athletes) social media activity.

Additionally, clubs often include risk-related behavior clauses to protect themselves against unnecessary injury risks. These can prohibit activities such as MMA fighting or extreme sports.

On the Clarkson situation, I think there’s a distinction to make. His contractual payout was legally binding, so he would have received it regardless of whether he accepted another role immediately ... there were no non-compete clauses attached (to my knowledge).

From memory, Hawthorn’s concern was about the $900k impact to its soft cap if Clarkson joined another club straight away. They sought AFL approval to have this amount excluded from their soft cap spend if he moved the following year, which he didn't do anyway so they were stuck with it.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Hollands on potential talent would be great. But he should have got there and hasn't. We have a weak draft, put him on the market and no one bites. Says a lot, unless he was not genuinely on the market. Obviously we are open to retaining him. I don't know what his issues are. No one can be cured from addiction, they can only be convinced and learn how to resist and manage it. So there is always going to be that. The club learning to work with someone like him and manage him is a big deal. It's probably something that the better clubs have navigated better than the rest of us.

I really don't know what is going on here. First it looked like perhaps we are giving him a scare and putting him on the edge and perhaps this is what works for him. Treat him mean, keep him keen. The club psychologist will be earning their coin here on this one.

I also dont think we were really serious about this, he was contracted and we would have asked for a trade. As Voss said in the interview is that we put it on Ollie, that if for his own sake he thought a different environment and a fresh start would get the best out of himself, he was welcome to explore those options... My gut says that Elijah never wanted to leave Carlton and backed himself in to win the spot back, fully aware he would need to do everything right and from the very outside it looks like he is doing all the right things.. Hopefully it was a light bulb moment seeing what the end of his career looked like and the opportunity he was throwing away.. It is a low risk, high reward play by the Carlton Footy club that could prove a masterstroke... or if Elijah stuffs it up we can move on knowing we have given him every opportunity.

 

[blue healer]

That's not right.
Contracted players have been delisted before, and re-signed by their clubs through the rookie draft. They don't get extra money, nor if they are signed by another club. The new contracted (which is likely an AFLPA minimum) is deducted from what the original club owes/pays.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have examples but in my observations most, if not all, times this has happened the club have made it public knowledge that they intend to rookie list the player at the time of delisting. They accept the risk that another club may gazump them. I seem to recall that North did it to GCS with a player whose name escapes me.

 

[Stamos]

Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have examples but in my observations most, if not all, times this has happened the club have made it public knowledge that they intend to rookie list the player at the time of delisting. They accept the risk that another club may gazump them. I seem to recall that North did it to GCS with a player whose name escapes me.

Yes.
Hugh Greenwood.

 

[Revenant1995]

Is it correct that SSP closes on 20 February 2026, which would be about 80 days time as of today...?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Is it correct that SSP closes on 20 February 2026, which would be about 80 days time as of today...?

That’s correct - and as a side note, there’s still enough time to take a hot air balloon trip around the world!

 

[kreuze_missile]

Cut Elijah off.

We're striving to be a professional organisation.

He's not that.

 

[Will_Hayward]

That’s correct - and as a side note, there’s still enough time to take a hot air balloon trip around the world!

Easily. Could do it almost seven times over in that period.

Five years since Fedor Konyukhov completed fastest ever solo round-the-world balloon flight | World Air Sports Federation

On this day in 2016, Russian adventurer Fedor Konyukhov set a new FAI absolute world record for the fastest circumnavigation of the globe in a combined (hybrid) hot-air and helium gas balloon, after travelling almost 34,000km in 268 hours and 20 minutes.

fai.org

 

[Bletch]

Is it correct that SSP closes on 20 February 2026, which would be about 80 days time as of today...?

Yes, but can ask for an extension if needed. We did last year to get Will White after Jagga was injured.

 

[gbatman]

My take on E Hollands is that other clubs simply don't want a troublesome one paced outside player who cant catch anyone defensively.

There are two versions of E Hollands to watch in 2024. The good early version of Elijah on the HFF and linking up down the wing in space and making great decisions inside 50 by foot. That elijah was valuable. He impacted positively.

The ever dumb Carlton MC saw that impact and thought he could impact inside. That version of elijah was weak, upended, panicky and flat footed. Turning circle of Dow. Elijah has no defensive impact and 50% of the game you don't have the ball.

So the good version needs space to work with to give him time to impact. The Carlton list mgmt issue is we have overstocked that position by so many players that we even moved Ollie Hollands to the HBF.

Other clubs are trying find wingers with speed+kick+defence. Elijah only fills one requirement. He isnt a player you are dying to recruit.

I would be playing him in defence. He doesn't have elite pace and his impact is in and out as a forward or a midfielder. I think he could be a player who defends solidly, accumulates possessions easily and delivers the ball really well. Similar to Newman who isn't quick but has other traits to a point where that doesn't really matter.

 

[The Bighouse]

Yes, but can ask for an extension if needed. We did last year to get Will White after Jagga was injured.

Believe that was only due to our late pre-season game and the injury incurred being after cut-off, where other teams had played yet we had not.

Think MFC were afforded the same.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Cut Elijah off.

We're striving to be a professional organisation

A professional organisation might also take care of its people, back their culture to withstand trying circumstance, and avoid short sighted decisions.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I would be playing him in defence. He doesn't have elite pace and his impact is in and out as a forward or a midfielder. I think he could be a player who defends solidly, accumulates possessions easily and delivers the ball really well. Similar to Newman who isn't quick but has other traits to a point where that doesn't really matter.

Elijah is a high half forward with a few centre bounces thrown in. He averaged 18 touches and not too far under a goal a game in this role in 2024 and won our best young player award. If he improves on that by 20% he would be in the absolute elite category. No need to re-invent the wheel. That's what he is and that's what he does best. He just needs to convince the powers that be that the penny has really dropped .

 

[BigFrizz36]

Cut Elijah off.

We're striving to be a professional organisation.

He's not that.

Does that mean that the Cats weren't professional for not cutting Stengle or Stevie J way back when the Pies bailed out on recruiting him or that the Pies haven't been professional for keeping De Goey on their list?

 

[GoBlues!]

A professional organisation might also take care of its people, back their culture to withstand trying circumstance, and avoid short sighted decisions.

True, but after 12 months of taking care of him and not getting the response you want, an organisation has to weigh up are we going to get another 12 months of this? An organisation has to also think of the other 40 players busting their guts and the impact of diverting energy and time to an individual at the expense of others.

PS: I really want to see EH fulfill his potential and play his best at Carlton, I love a good redemption story. Hoping this is the outcome.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

You're right in that behavioural clauses are very common in professional sports contracts, they typically cover public conduct, personal lifestyle choices, and (especially relevant for modern athletes) social media activity.

Additionally, clubs often include risk-related behavior clauses to protect themselves against unnecessary injury risks. These can prohibit activities such as MMA fighting or extreme sports.

On the Clarkson situation, I think there’s a distinction to make. His contractual payout was legally binding, so he would have received it regardless of whether he accepted another role immediately ... there were no non-compete clauses attached (to my knowledge).

From memory, Hawthorn’s concern was about the $900k impact to its soft cap if Clarkson joined another club straight away. They sought AFL approval to have this amount excluded from their soft cap spend if he moved the following year, which he didn't do anyway so they were stuck with it.

So in my memory there was media reporting at the time that his first official day at North wasn't until Nov 1 even though he started unofficially working with them once the season finished (the hawks arrangement ended nov 1 obviously).

Anyway - chatgpt gave me an official AFL rule on this:

What AFL rules say — “No Unjust Enrichment” clause​

• The standard contract language (in the collective-bargaining framework) includes a “No Unjust Enrichment” provision. If a player is delisted (or otherwise removed from a club list) and then signs with another AFL club, the termination payment (payout) from the original club may be reduced.
• More precisely: if the average payments the player will receive under the new contract are equal or greater than what remained on the old contract over the same period, then the original club might owe no termination payment at all.
• If the new earnings are less, the payout is reduced by the difference (i.e. the termination payment is offset by the amount the new club will pay).

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I would be playing him in defence. He doesn't have elite pace and his impact is in and out as a forward or a midfielder. I think he could be a player who defends solidly, accumulates possessions easily and delivers the ball really well. Similar to Newman who isn't quick but has other traits to a point where that doesn't really matter.

I think he's a HFF. He's always been top 4 or 5 in the time trial so he has that elite endurance you need to get up and help out in defense but also transition forward. He's one of the few players we've had who can consistently get near 20 touches playing this role. 4th for goals / 6th for score involvements in 2024. Critical player.

 

[JuddgementDay]

He’s not guaranteed a spot and has to wait months to see if they do.

Never seen it before and feels strange to me that if he is given a spot it gets taken off what he would have been paid if kept.

Whole situation just makes no sense to me. JMO

I'm in the same boat as you - confused...

But, what is the process?
Suppose the club was ready to part way with EH, terminated his contract and then changed their mind.
If they lodged the paperwork with the AFL already and that was signed off - can they change their mind?
What is the process? There are no processes here.

So, this will be treated as two separate transactions and obviously CFC will have to pay more for changing their mind

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I'm in the same boat as you - confused...

But, what is the process?
Suppose the club was ready to part way with EH, terminated his contract and then changed their mind.
If they lodged the paperwork with the AFL already and that was signed off - can they change their mind?
What is the process? There are no processes here.

So, this will be treated as two separate transactions and obviously CFC will have to pay more for changing their mind

If EH gets back on the list he receives no additional money.

 

[JuddgementDay]

If EH gets back on the list he receives no additional money.

So a club can sack any players, change their mind and there’s no consequences?

 

[teddy-hopkins]

So a club can sack any players, change their mind and there’s no consequences?

Correct. I'm not sure what you mean by "consequence" though. The club is paying out the contract for someone not even on the list. That's the consequence isn't it? By adding him back on the list you're just avoiding the consequence.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I honestly couldn't GAF about the contract status or what he may or may not get paid if he gets another gig.

We aint broke and our salary cap aint under the squeeze.

If he gets offered a spot on the list is all I care about and winning games of football - which Lij would greatly enhance.

 

[windows1]

Hollands on potential talent would be great. But he should have got there and hasn't. We have a weak draft, put him on the market and no one bites. Says a lot, unless he was not genuinely on the market. Obviously we are open to retaining him. I don't know what his issues are. No one can be cured from addiction, they can only be convinced and learn how to resist and manage it. So there is always going to be that. The club learning to work with someone like him and manage him is a big deal. It's probably something that the better clubs have navigated better than the rest of us.

I really don't know what is going on here. First it looked like perhaps we are giving him a scare and putting him on the edge and perhaps this is what works for him. Treat him mean, keep him keen. The club psychologist will be earning their coin here on this one.

The view it can only be managed is not correct although I know it’s a commonly used concept and don’t blame you for adopting it. It misses the intermediate psychiatric view - remission. He can hit remission. Psychiatrists are wary of using the word “cured” so that part of the statement is correct. But brain structure and function can repair and seeing the condition as fixed and only capable of being managed really under values the benefits of deep treatment. He can reach a state where a probability of relapse is close to zero if he does the work. He can reach a point where he doesn’t even need to be managed (due to changes in brain structure and function). I hope for him he does.

As for the situation….he clearly only needs to behave to win his spot. Else what the hell was the point of giving him a chance? No one is going to get near showing his level of football ability in the preseason trial spot competition.

 

[Michael Jezz]

It is not 2018 when Elijah will unbalance the group if he stuffs up.
I assume his behaviour had the potential to influence his team mates but the effect was limited. He strikes me as irresponsible but not a "s..t bloke". Players like May and Stringer I could envisage as being destabilising in comparison
He is talented for a guy taking the last spot on a list in a weak draft year.
If he stuffs up again- the club lives with a mistake.
If he plays 100 games- the club has rehabilitated a person's life. I hope Elijah has children one day and we supporters, older and greyer, can make the connection between the rookie spot and its effect on the next generation.
Think of the risk. Think of the reward