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Woodville Crows

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CrowMagnum

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Pecker' Crows a good fit

CHRIS McDERMOTT
January 28, 2007 12:15am



"With former Crows' recruiting guru James Fantasia (ironically an ex-Woodville Pecker himself) now in control of the future direction and development of the SANFL, fixing the current issues facing the competition must be his No.1 priority. Without doubt the biggest problem that needs immediate attention is the nine-team competition and the scheduling nightmares it presents.
The fix is simple, but the solution continually falls on deaf ears.
Woodville now looms as the saviour. Without doubt, the merger between the Peckers and West Torrens has been a great success story.
It was the right move for the time, but it's time to turn back the clock.
The Eagles should return to thebarton under the old West Torrens banner and of course don that magnificent jumper with the Eagle on front.
With their new gaming facility up and flying their financial future is secure.
But it's Woodville which provides the SANFL with its greatest benefit. Unfortunately it will be at the expense of its old nickname "the Peckers".
The Woodville "Crows" must become the 10th team in the SANFL.
The time has come for the Adelaide Crows to have a second team in the local comp.
It works well for Melbourne-based AFL clubs in the VFL.
It will be a huge success in many ways here in SA.
THE benefits are many, the transition is simple – and the downside is minimal, almost negligible.
It keeps the Crows' players under the one regime all the time. no longer splitting their energy between the AFL club and their SANFL team

One club, one system, one voice.
After all they are Crows players, on loan to the local clubs.
Many SANFL coaches would agree as good as it is to have quality AFL players in their team it does cause problems at finals time.
An unhealthy reliance on that group can be costly.
It definately did Glenelg no favours in 2006.
Mark Mickan is now preparing his team without relying on the luxury of his AFL-based players.
It is the right move. Surely our local clubs are better off without them.
While aligning Crows players to Woodville, the Power and the Magpies must merge at Alberton.
That transition will be even easier. Opotunities will arise at the new Woodville for players looking for a fresh start. The new-look Woodville Crows must fill their playing squad with local talent.
It must have enough numbers to fill a league and reserves team. the under-17s and under-19s can follow in time.
Woodville Oval would be the new home. all facilities including the social club are in place.
Adelaide Football Club could run the admin from its West Lakes HQ. If the benefits for the Crows are great, they are even greater for the SANFL.
Kids would have a greater affiliation and knowledge of the local comp
A Crows' team in the local comp would attract fantastic crowds – 5000 a minimum, you'd think.
WITH a round of local footy often drawing crowds of under 10 000 to the four games thats a massive improvement.
Not to mention the increase in attendances to magpies matches.
This is not a new suggestion, but it continually gets fobbed off as a nonsense.
The SANFL is not the best competition it can be at the moment.
Uneven programming is a major issue. A 10-team comp means an even 18-round season. Each team plays the other twice, while the final five remains.
The season takes just 23 weeks to complete, 24 if there's a state game, and just as importantly must start after the AFL season begins and finish before it ends.
The AFL is without question the premier comp in the country, it must take precident over all other leagues.
As I've said, the Crows would also be big winners.
The team could be coached by one of the assistants or better still one of their past greats like Tony McGuinness, a Woodville fan as a youngster – or maybe even Andrew Jarman.
Players would be played in the positions they will fill if and when they suit for the Crows.
Surely the transition for interstate youngsters, especially rookie listed kids would be much easier.
Why won't it happen?

What are the pitfalls? who if any are the losers?

The only issue here is the old theory it ain't broke so don't fix it.
My view is it ain't perfect so do fix it.
The solution is simple and every player wins a prize.
Woodville fans, dust off the duffle coats – and rehearse the club song.
The green and gold stripes could be on their way back!"


I heard Woodville Mick or whatever he calls himself suggest this on 5AA last week to the Boney One , who almost wet himself with excitement at the time. Thought it had some legs at the time and still seems to have some merit in it. Woodville was always everyone's 2nd team and I still remember the shopkeepers wearing Warrior guernseys when Malcolm Blight took them into the finals series in the 80's.
 
I agree with McDermotts idea but why not simply add a Crows team to the SANFL to bring the comp back to ten teams and leave Woodville alone? Port, as he said, should have the Port Magpies as their reserves team.

I've banged on about this a fair bit in my time on BigFooty. For those concerned about the two AFL sides' reserves teams having an unfair advantage I think those fears are unwarranted. The reserve teams would be made up of mainly young guys plus players recovering from injury. The sides are likely to be fairly unsettled so there is every likelihood they will not dominate IMO.

I think the concept will boost interest in the local league as people will want to see how their sides go against the AFL reserves.

The reserves could play prior to the main AFL game thereby making for a better football outing when the AFL side is playing locally as well as giving the young guys the chance to play in front of larger crowds especially in the last quarter of their matches.

Apart from that as McDermott points out the reserves would be training completely under the one system of play and this should speed up their development.

The reserve sides would need to be topped up somehow to bring the numbers up to a viable total to cover for injuries. Maybe this could be done by recruiting scholarship players who are not part of the AFL sides' contracted players.

There would also need to be restrictions on regular AFL players being allowed to play in finals just as we currently have.
 
Lunacy. The immediate erosion of a club travelling nicely.

Why won't it happen? Try asking the members at the Eagles.

What are the pitfalls? The inevitable drop in quality of the competition. Woodville and West Torrens would quickly revert to their punching bag status of the 70's and 80's.

Who are the losers? The Eagles.

And James Fantasia never played for the "Peckers".
 

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Chris McDermott's article was in today's Sunday Mail, for the benefit of any interstate or overseas posters.

I think the idea of a Crows team in the SANFL, be it the Woodville Crows or a brand new team, has some merit. Where the Woodville Crows has the edge is that there is a ground and structure already in place.

Similarly, the Port Magpies being the reserves team of the Power makes equal sense IMO.

One of the weaknesses of the suggestion is the return of West Torrens to Thebby oval. If you've seen Thebby Oval in recent times you'd realize that ther's a lot of work and money necessary to make that ground capable of being the home ground again of an SANFL team.

Another possible weakness is the question of whether the SANFL is financially capable of supporting 10 teams.

While I like the idea - it's a damn good one - I doubt whether it will ever happen.
 
The one issue in that article that really stood out for me was the quote It works well for Melbourne-based AFL clubs in the VFL. If it works well, why do their teams fill up most of the bottom of the ladder in the AFL?

For the non-victorian teams I know that Sydney has the a reserves team, does Brisbane also have one reserves team or do they have a similar set up to the SA and WA teams? Sydneyhad to move competitions to play in the ACT league as the NSW one was not up to scratch at all and even then it took the swans reserves about 2-3 years to actually become competitive in that league.
 
Brisbane does have a Reserves side in the AFLQ (I believe).

In the VFL, the couple of remaining standalone clubs do poorly. Sandringham (Melbourne), Williamstown (Collingwood), Box Hill (Hawthorn) and Coburg (Richmond) are strong outfits. The difference in SA would be that the "AFL Reserve" teams would be in the minority. It would work for Port, but for the Crows - would it be Adelaide or Woodville? Peckers or Crows? And where do all those topup players come from? You effectively have to find 44 new players.
 
I think the Swans reserves win by about 15 goals each week, from memory.

Its a fine idea in theory. Port aligned with Magpies, Crows aligned with a new team but its not that simple.

Who fills up the 30-40 players on the Crows list to fill a seniors and reserves side. Didnt follow the Crows injury status too closely last year but Port had about 3 players available for SANFL for a couple of weeks. So thats 18 supplementary list players right there, plus another 21 for reserves and that doesnt account for if any of the supp players are injured. Where do these players come from? Other SANFL clubs? Under age kids? I cant see too many SANFL clubs willing to hand over their young talent and therefore miss out on the $$ if they get drafted. Transfer fees would be quite pricey though the Crows could afford it. Will they have to pick up from the Amateurs?

As for Port, what happens to their current list of players? There would be a mass exodus of talent that would leave the Magpies just for guaranteed league matches every week. Guys like Jenner would most likely be pushed back to reserves when they deserve league games. Though the bonus is the under age and reserves system is alreayd set up there.

And then what if one of these clubs wins the flag in the first year...all hell will break loose, especially if its Port.

Another point as McAlmanac said, can anyone honestly see WWT members voting for this to happen? I really cant see anymore than a small minority voting for this. Not to mention the board members.

Splitting the Eagles is a ridiculous idea. Starting a new club for which the Crows can play through is the only way it will ever happen.

As macca said, Thebby needs a ton of work as well. They have a time clock and scoreboard laying against the fence which 50% of the crowd cant see, the light towers are a health hazard and theres already one SANFL club that has said that the change rooms are a disgrace and they will refuse to play there again until its significantly different.

I just cant see it happening. Not in the near future.
 
The man is a fool, just ignore him.

Jesus, the drama for those that went thru it 17 years ago and now he wants to do this again. I'm sorry but I don't want to go thru that all over again.

Interesting he says to turn back the clock. Sorry, Chris, but we go forward, never do we go backwards. He is obviously a yesterdays man.
 
I think both the Crows and the Power are at an advantage for having their young players play in the second best comp in Aus when they can't make the seniors and I'd be hesitant to change it too much. While I like the idea of the players not in the senior team still being under Crows control regarding where they play I'm not sure how often it's a concern. If they're good enough to play in that position the Crows want them in they will play there, if not then they're probably not ready for it.
How often is it a problem? IIRC there have been some problems with where the Crows want Jericho played and Meese was used as a forward instead of ruck for a bit in 05. Much else?
 
The SANFL is not strong enough to have AFL reserves sides in it. In twenty years, who will still be barracking for Norwood when they take on the Crows reserves side? Why would they barrack against a club full of their AFL side's own players?

Only pre-Crows fans would have the emotional attachment to their SANFL clubs to do something like that.

In favour of the current scenario, I'll go back to about 8 years ago when there were four Power-listed players named at CHF at four different SANFL sides - how else can you get that kind of development? In theory the current system can be made to be BETTER than the `all at one club' system, but the AFL clubs need more control over their players.

Splitting the SANFL's minidraft alignment would be a good idea though. Have it so only North, Port, WWT, Westies and Centrals can minidraft Power players, and the rest can get first dibs on Crows players, matching the father-son clubs.
 

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So a kid who's grown up in Glenelg's (or whoever your SANFL club is) zone, supported the club all his life and come up through their junior teams gets drafted to the Power and has to switch to the Magpies? Good idea Bone :rolleyes:
 
West Torrens could keep their catchment area for recruiting and so need not be weakened any more than any other club. Thebarton could be upgraded or they could share Woodville Oval. They probably wouldn't lose many members either as the new club would attract the Woodville diehards who felt disaffected at what they saw as a takeover and have never returned to the club, as well as a new group of non-affiliated Crow supporters who would be discovering the SANFL for the first time and so boost overall crowds.

There is a SA precedent too. Adelaide City and West Adelaide fielded teams in the local comp during their NSL days and those teams were competitive but didn't dominate.

The main problem, as Macca19 has said, is getting the numbers to field a league and reserves team when injuries hit the senior squad. Crows and Power effectively need enough for 3 teams each, a big ask.
 
Most people have pretty summed up how I think on this so far. Basically seperating Woodville and West Torrens would be akin to unscrambling an egg.

Here's a scenario to consider.

Saturday Night (Football Park) - Adelaide vs Port Adelaide in a knock out final. After a rough opening finals series both sides have had to make some changes due to injuries. Over the course of the game more injuries are sustained.

Sunday Afternoon (Adelaide Oval) - Woodville play "The Magpies" in the qualifying final of the SANFL.

mmmmm
 
Absolutely rubbish idea.

McDermott must be going senile.

Both of our AFL Teams have been very successful in recent years (even those bogans at Power, they still suck, but they've performed well), why the hell do we need to change the comp that feeds them?

I actually think having the Crows/Power plays spread throughout the comp is best for both the SANFL & AFL teams. You put them all in one side, and the competition would be ********ed in a couple of years.

As for telling us (WWWTFC) what we want - ******** off. We are one Club, we have proud histories, but talk of undoing the merger is stupid.

As much as I love Thebarton (I grew up spending a lot of time there), it's not our Home Ground anymore.


Leave us alone, and keep your stupid idea to yourself, the SANFL doesn't need having 1/2 baby AFL Teams dominated it.
 
West Torrens could keep their catchment area for recruiting and so need not be weakened any more than any other club. Thebarton could be upgraded or they could share Woodville Oval. They probably wouldn't lose many members either as the new club would attract the Woodville diehards who felt disaffected at what they saw as a takeover and have never returned to the club, as well as a new group of non-affiliated Crow supporters who would be discovering the SANFL for the first time and so boost overall crowds.

There is a SA precedent too. Adelaide City and West Adelaide fielded teams in the local comp during their NSL days and those teams were competitive but didn't dominate.

The main problem, as Macca19 has said, is getting the numbers to field a league and reserves team when injuries hit the senior squad. Crows and Power effectively need enough for 3 teams each, a big ask.

Who are you? Bones brother?

Which side do you have an allegiance to? If its not WWTFC, then you have no idea what it is like to first go thru a merger and secondly to experience the success that you haven't had for the previous 30 years and then see it emerge with hardwork and persistence.

By all means tinker at the edges to make it better but don't undo what has worked well. No need to reinvent the wheel as Bones proposes.

PS: We shouldn't be going to 10 teams, we should be reducing to 8. Now who is willing to merge? Answer - no-one. Now isn't that interesting!
 

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Couldn't care less about McDermott. I follow Sturt actually and I remember some of the shellackings we gave the peckers. I also remember getting excited when they came good and almost reached the GF, as did most supporters whose team was not actually playing them that weekend. I also had some affection for the West Torrens Eagles, but none for the current team, unless they're playing the Magpies.

I can understand the feelings of WWT supporters though, and don't worry it won't happen. But I know that Sturt came close to merging/being taken over by Norwood and North at various stages, and if it had happened and there was a chance for them to stand alone again, even as the Sturt Crows, I know how I'd feel.
 
I first read the article this morning in the paper. I agreed with the fact that the SANFL needed 10 players, but I did not agree with the Crows and Power reserves. I didnt disagree with the WWT unmerger but thats because it doesnt affect me. Its a different feeling and it hasent happend at a top league since world war II. If it was to go on the clubs would be 1/2 as good as what they used to be and you would find them both finishing 9th and 10th respectivly like the old days!
 
Well this Woodville diehard isn't enamoured - it is just using the Woodville name as a plaything to solve somebody else's problem. We bit the bullet once - who is McDermott to tell Eagles supporters to go through the same pain again? Because make no mistake - the two sides would be cellar dwellers once more.

Maybe McDermott should reflect on 15 years of Tiger mediocrity and one Panther grand final in the last 40 years to suggest something altogether more sensible - the merging of THESE two clubs to form a southern version of the Eagles. Too close to the "bone", isn't it?
 
Having the Woodville side as the Crows reserves team and the Magpies as the Power's reserve team is unfair to the rest of the league, and like someone mentioned before, it would destroy the SANFL within a few years, because the 2 AFL reserves sides would be dominating the competition (not that I have a problem with Port winning the premiership almost every year )
 
Having the Woodville side as the Crows reserves team and the Magpies as the Power's reserve team is unfair to the rest of the league, and like someone mentioned before, it would destroy the SANFL within a few years, because the 2 AFL reserves sides would be dominating the competition (not that I have a problem with Port winning the premiership almost every year )
So it shouldn't happen because they'll get flogged and come bottom, and it shouldn't happen because they'll dominate and come top. Make up your mind guys.

My guess is they'd be a middle power but it just shows no-one knows what would happen.
 
I've always been for this idea but must admit I had never thought of the following
The SANFL is not strong enough to have AFL reserves sides in it. In twenty years, who will still be barracking for Norwood when they take on the Crows reserves side? Why would they barrack against a club full of their AFL side's own players?
 

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