Conspiracy Theory World Economic Forum

[bourbons]

I'm in agreement that the push for EV's doesn't make any sense, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Australia destroyed the economy with covid lockdowns, you think they wouldn't do it again?

Just like the lockdown protests, climate protests get billed as being "nazi". The same worn out labels like "conspiracy theorist" and "nazi" will get trotted out to discredit the protests, like here:

No, I don't think they would institute a permanent measure that destroys both the economy and society (vs a temporary one that destroyed the economy). I believe concerns that a huge number of people that traditionally could have afforded one will be priced out of access to a car overnight with no recourse whatsoever are somewhat hysterical, similar to the raft of predictions that were bandied about as guarantees during covid (masks and checkins everywhere forever etc.)

I have no interest in antifa and even less in Andy Ngo's take on anything.

 

[bourbons]

The difference is that the fact checkers are doing it to the govt, nowadays it's solely for social media posts and babylon bee articles. Iwould have loved to see a fact check article like this about how the data was manipulated about covid deaths, but it just didn't happen.

Dunno, sounds suspiciously like you're just fine with fact checks that support your beliefs but not with ones that don't ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[zill]

No, I don't think they institute a permanent measure that destroys both the economy and society (vs a temporary one that destroyed the economy). I believe concerens that people will be priced out of access to a car overnight with no recourse whatsoever are somewhat hysterical, similar to the raft of predictions that were bandied about during covid (masks and checkins everywhere forever etc.)

I have no interest in antifa and even less in Andy Ngo's take on anything.

You said that people would take to the street in protest though. I'm showing you what happens when people protest in Oxford. You saw for yourself what happened in Australia with lockdown protests, wholesale police brutality. This is what will happen for any future protests against tyrannical climate policy, useful idiots screaming "nazi" and "conspiracy theorist". And the MSM and "fact checkers" are fully on board with tyrannical govts.

 

[zill]

Dunno, sounds suspiciously like you're just fine with fact checks that support your beliefs but not with ones that don't ¯\(ツ)/¯

That was an actual fact check though. Actual journalism. Why isn't it applied like that anymore? A man was murdered in NZ and he was counted as a covid death, where were the articles like that ABC one about how covid deaths were counted? Fact checkers are just propaganda tools now, may as well just link a wikipedia article (after it's edited, of course).

 

[bourbons]

You said that people would take to the street in protest though. I'm showing you what happens when people protest in Oxford. You saw for yourself what happened in Australia with lockdown protests, wholesale police brutality. This is what will happen for any future protests against tyrannical climate policy, useful idiots screaming "nazi" and "conspiracy theorist". And the MSM and "fact checkers" are fully on board with tyrannical govts.

The fact you continue to paint governments in Australia as "tyranical" shows how out of touch you are imo. At best its useless hyperbole.

Horses for courses mate - fairly small covid protests with a confirmed nazi presence (albeit a small one) vs hundreds of thousands in the streets? I suspect our tyrannical overlords would struggle to paint that as a nazi movement. Not that they painted the covid ones as a nazi movement either - noting the presence of those people wasn't the reason they failed to gain much traction.

And police brutality at protests has been an issue for awhile, its not specific to the covid protests. Listening to some of the covid protestors talk about it like they just discovered it was a thing was fairly humourous.

 

[bourbons]

That was an actual fact check though. Actual journalism.

So was the fact check on 93% against re: Oxford. You called it spin

A man was murdered in NZ and he was counted as a covid death, where were the articles like that ABC one about how covid deaths were counted?

In error, and I seem to remember that error getting a fair bit of coverage.

Fact checkers are just propaganda tools now

Just one the ones you don't like imo

 

[ParapMarkets]

In error, and I seem to remember that error getting a fair bit of coverage.

Did they call it an error?
This news report at the time has the health department explain why they count a murder victim as Covid (because it’s a WHO directive).

 

[bourbons]

Did they call it an error?
This news report at the time has the health department explain why they count a murder victim as Covid (because it’s a WHO directive).

From memory I watched a presser where they said they were changing the way they recorded deaths so as to avoid confusion. Technically not exactly an admission of error I suppose, which is pretty standard for governments.

 

[zill]

The fact you continue to paint governments in Australia as "tyranical" shows how out of touch you are imo. At best its useless hyperbole.

Horses for courses mate - fairly small covid protests with a confirmed nazi presence (albeit a small one) vs hundreds of thousands in the streets? I suspect our tyrannical overlords would struggle to paint that as a nazi movement. Not that they painted the covid ones as a nazi movement either - noting the presence of those people wasn't the reason they failed to gain much traction.

And police brutality at protests has been an issue for awhile, its not specific to the covid protests. Listening to some of the covid protestors talk about it like they just discovered it was a thing was fairly humourous.

What do you call fairly small? 50k people? And they absolutely were painted as a nazi movement, the same thing was done in C anada with their protests.

 

[zill]

In error, and I seem to remember that error getting a fair bit of coverage.

It wasn't an error, so it was never called an error. Every death was recorded as per WHO protocols, as the reporter explains in the clip. The murder got attention, but did the 90 year old who passed away in palliative care and happened to have "covid-like" symptoms at the time of death ever get any attention? Of course not.

The ABC article I linked showed the govt used similar data manipulation to push their agenda that poor people didn't drive, which suited them as they introduced a fuel excise tax that would effect the poor the most, and that isn't how they wanted it spun. They took census data about cars in households, and added people who either didn't answer the question or answered 'not applicable' and assumed they were in the no car category. The same thing happened with covid deaths, illustrated by the murder in NZ, yet no fact checkers were in sight.

 

[bourbons]

What do you call fairly small? 50k people? And they absolutely were painted as a nazi movement, the same thing was done in C anada with their protests.

Yes, 50K is fairly small in comparison to 100s of thousands.

Were they? Can you link to some example reporting? People definitely noted there was a nazi presence at the rallies and that those guys were seeking to use those events as a kind of gateway/recruiting tool. That doesn't = 'nazi movement', its just a statement of fact.

 

[bourbons]

It wasn't an error, so it was never called an error. Every death was recorded as per WHO protocols, as the reporter explains in the clip. The murder got attention, but did the 90 year old who passed away in palliative care and happened to have "covid-like" symptoms at the time of death ever get any attention? Of course not.

The ABC article I linked showed the govt used similar data manipulation to push their agenda that poor people didn't drive, which suited them as they introduced a fuel excise tax that would effect the poor the most, and that isn't how they wanted it spun. They took census data about cars in households, and added people who either didn't answer the question or answered 'not applicable' and assumed they were in the no car category. The same thing happened with covid deaths, illustrated by the murder in NZ, yet no fact checkers were in sight.

So because one event you were passionate about didn't get a fact check, that means all fact checks on topics you don't agree with are 'propaganda'?

Not sure that tracks

 

[zill]

Yes, 50K is fairly small in comparison to 100s of thousands.

Were they? Can you link to some example reporting? People definitely noted there was a nazi presence at the rallies and that those guys were seeking to use those events as a kind of gateway/recruiting tool. That doesn't = 'nazi movement', its just a statement of fact.

 

[zill]

So because one event you were passionate about didn't get a fact check, that means all fact checks on topics you don't agree with are 'propaganda'?

Not sure that tracks

The ABC article I linked was actual reporting, it showed the data manipulation of the govt. The "fact checkers" you linked just threw out the usual conspiract theorist tags, and ignored the evidence that these so called "traffic calming measures" aren't just about congestion but al;so about emissions, and that they aren't linked to 15 min cities in any way. The official documents state as much. It is the very definition of propaganda.

 

[bourbons]

Was talking about the protests in Australia, but nevertheless...

"Trudeau says the protestors are fringe extremists, racists and nazis" - that seems to be the paraphrasing of the Fox host (never a great idea to take Fox reporting at face value).

Have you got Trudeau's actual quote? All I could find was "Freedom of expression, assembly and association are cornerstones of democracy, but Nazi symbolism, racist imagery and desecration of war memorials are not" and "Over the past few days, Canadians were shocked and frankly disgusted by the behaviour displayed by some people protesting in our nation’s capital".

 

[bourbons]

The ABC article I linked was actual reporting, it showed the data manipulation of the govt. The "fact checkers" you linked just threw out the usual conspiract theorist tags, and ignored the evidence that these so called "traffic calming measures" aren't just about congestion but al;so about emissions, and that they aren't linked to 15 min cities in any way. The official documents state as much. It is the very definition of propaganda.

Completely false, mate. The Oxfordshire 93% fact check very much addressed the data, how it was obtained and categorised, and how it was manipulated by those seeking to misrepresent it;

A council spokesperson told Reuters in an email that the claim is false and is based upon a misreading of an analysis of results from a survey carried out between September and October 2022.

One question asked: “Do you have any comments on the scheme’s benefits?” A free-text box was supplied for respondents to use as many words as they wanted.

The council spokesperson said an independent surveying company was then hired to better understand the answers (see the analysis, published in November, bit.ly/3FTvNws, page 42).

The independent company categorised the answers into 45 broad themes but also summarised some as generally positive or negative.

“This showed that 8% of the answers could be broadly categorised as ‘Disagree with schemes/Can’t see benefits,’ while 7% could be broadly categorised as ‘Support/agree with scheme/Can see the benefits’,” the spokesperson said.

“Some have claimed that the table [page 42] shows ‘only 7% of the public support the traffic filters’, and therefore 93% must disagree with them. The table does not say this; this is a misrepresentation of the consultation results.”

You'll note that they also included a link to the raw data. Seems like 'actual reporting' to me lol.

You are doing nothing here to dissuade me of the notion that you simply don't like fact checks which push back against your preferred narrative, but are fine with those that support it. The very opposite in fact, you're displaying incredible bias imo.

 

[zill]

Was talking about the protests in Australia, but nevertheless...

"Trudeau says the protestors are fringe extremists, racists and nazis" - that seems to be the paraphrasing of the Fox host (never a great idea to take Fox reporting at face value).

Have you got Trudeau's actual quote? All I could find was "Freedom of expression, assembly and association are cornerstones of democracy, but Nazi symbolism, racist imagery and desecration of war memorials are not" and "Over the past few days, Canadians were shocked and frankly disgusted by the behaviour displayed by some people protesting in our nation’s capital".

What was the nazi symbolism displayed? All it was was a poster comparing the mandates with nazi germany. Yet he puts it out there like swaztikas were being displayed by mazis and even accused members of parliament of standing with them.



He has a history of accusing people who criticise him of being nazis as well:

 

[zill]

Completely false, mate. The Oxfordshire 93% fact check very much addressed the data, how it was obtained and categorised, and how it was manipulated by those seeking to misrepresent it;

You'll note that they also included a link to the raw data. Seems like 'actual reporting' to me lol.

You are doing nothing here to dissuade me of the notion that you simply don't like fact checks which push back against your preferred narrative, but are fine with those that support it. The very opposite in fact, you're displaying incredible bias imo.

Yes I saw the raw data. Only 7% who responded supported the plan. It is just semantics. The fact checkers also said there was no link between the traffic filters and 15 min cities and weren't climate policy, when I have provided links that show it is.

 

[bourbons]

What was the nazi symbolism displayed? All it was was a poster comparing the mandates with nazi germany. Yet he puts it out there like swaztikas were being displayed by mazis and even accused members of parliament of standing with them.



He has a history of accusing people who criticise him of being nazis as well:

Rightio, no fan of Trudeau and not much interest in watching a 10 minute video about him, happy to concede the point.

Now, the painting of all protestors as nazis in Australia?

 

[bourbons]

Yes I saw the raw data. Only 7% who responded supported the plan. It is just semantics. The fact checkers also said there was no link between the traffic filters and 15 min cities and weren't climate policy, when I have provided links that show it is.

lol

Only 8% who responded didn't support the plan.

 

[zill]

lol

Only 8% who responded didn't support the plan.

You've read the raw data, don't be so disingenuous. I think anyone responding that the plan will increase traffic and emissions can be put into the "no support" category.

 

[zill]

Rightio, no fan of Trudeau and not much interest in watching a 10 minute video about him, happy to concede the point.

Now, the painting of all protestors as nazis in Australia?

Just like in Canada, the protestors were comparing politicians to nazis, but it gets spun into thee protestors being nazis.

Nazi symbols being used to demonise and delegitimise' Dan Andrews

Protesters are using Nazi symbols and Adolf Hitler references to 'demonise and delegitimise' Victorian Premier Dan Andrews, according to a leading academic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[bourbons]

You've read the raw data, don't be so disingenuous. I think anyone responding that the plan will increase traffic and emissions can be put into the "no support" category.

Ahh, but can people who responded "Reducing traffic is essential" or "This scheme doesn’t go far enough/needs to be more ambitious" also be put in the no support category? Hell, can people who responded "Public transport needs to be more frequent/reliable", "Public transport needs generally improving" or "Improve cycling/pedestrian infrastructure (e.g. routes, make safer etc.)". Or the half dozen other response categories focused on public transport?

Coz thats what you're doing. Pretty irrational if not outright dishonest I would have thought.

Claiming a unified 93% general non-support on that data is the definition of disingenuous

 

[zill]

Ahh, but can people who responded "Reducing traffic is essential" or "This scheme doesn’t go far enough/needs to be more ambitious" also be put in the no support category? Hell, can people who responded "Public transport needs to be more frequent/reliable", "Public transport needs generally improving" or "Improve cycling/pedestrian infrastructure (e.g. routes, make safer etc.)". Or the half dozen other response categories focused on public transport?

Coz thats what you're doing. Pretty irrational if not outright dishonest I would have thought.

Claiming a unified 93% general non-support on that data is the definition of disingenuous

Outright dishonest is claiming that the traffic filters and 15 min city aren't linked, and have nothing to do with climate policy

 

[bourbons]

Outright dishonest is claiming that the traffic filters and 15 min city aren't linked, and have nothing to do with climate policy

The claim that isn't in the fact check we're discussing?

Good move backing away from the 93% nonsense.