Yes? No? Maybe?

[Dirty Bird]

I dont know. Can you repeat that question!

Who's finals ready?

Of the 24 (plus coach) who played in finals. Who's finals ready.

2. Keays - Maybe - Obviously an x factor up forward. Got in position. Give him another chance
3. Berry - Yes - Only midfield who looked good all finals.
6. Curton - Yes - Got in position, had composure.
7. Thilthorpe - Yes - Just as dominant, but others around him failed
8. Rachele - Yes - Even with no matchday fitness, he is a game changer (2 goals, 1 assist). Could be our best finals player
9. Murray - Maybe - kept his opponent out of it, but didn't hurt in the other direction.
10. Pedlar - Yes - He has X-Factor. Good mismatch against average defenders.
12 - Dawson - Maybe - What I did learn is he cant cope with the pressure inside. Okay on the wing. Needs a new role if we're going to compete.
13 - Walker - Yes - Still has it.
14 - Soligo - Maybe - He did some okay stuff, but overall invisible. I think it's lack of fitness and he's improved year on year. So I wont rule him out. But it was worrying his finals campaign
16. Michalanney - Maybe - IMHO one of the 2 most disappointing in this finals series. Which makes me second guess no, but I think it might be lack of fitness, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
19. Taylor - Yes - Has composure and takes the game on. Has the makings of a player in good moments
20. Hinge - No - Cracked under pressure.
24. Worrall - Yes - Did great in both games when everything was going against us. Honestly wouldnt be surprised if the finals won him the B+F
25. Peatling - Maybe - QF was arguably worst afield. Decent tonight. I cant read him.
28. Neal-Bullen - Maybe - I cant read him. Im leaning towards role player whom with space is okay, but cracks under pressure. Probably leaning to no.
29. Laird - Yes - One of our best in finals. Rarely beaten, found someone outside. Thrives under pressure
30. Milera - Yes - Rarely beaten.
32. Fogarty - Maybe - He plays a specific way. And it has 0% chance of working against Collingwood. And has miniscule chance of working vs Hawthorn. Hard to rate him as his downfall I think was to do with Nicks. Not him
33. Smith - Yes - Besides 1 brain fade (blazing at goal vs Collingwood) he was overall pretty good
40. Bond - Maybe - He is not the #1 small. No doubt about that. But I do think he's good enough to play a role vs a lesser player
43. O'Brien - No - I've been a big supporter of him, but the second the pressure came, he crumbled. Needs to leave and we need someone who dosn't crack
44. Cumming - No - Cracked and was useless all finals
48. Keane - Maybe - In phases he shut down his man. But he wasn't dominant in the pressure as through most of the season
HC. Nicks - No - Outcoached by McRae. And went mental in the semi. The midfield mix he was playing in the first qtr. Injecting Taylor. Honestly. Were you tanking? That's the type of shit you try vs a shit team to see whether something might work. Trying it in a final? You're either a moron who doesnt understand the gravity of the situation. Or you're an imbecile using a final to practice for the future)

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Stopped reading when you said Berry was the only midfielder who looked good all finals.

 

[Danger Zone]

I have to say that you are a generous judge. Not sure I agree with a lot of these right now. Berry, Walker, Fog, Smith, Pedlar especially.

 

[Dirty Bird]

If it's George ContStandYa that agrees with you.
I know who's wrong here....

 

[Scorpus]

Berry had 12 and 12 disposals in both finals. He couldn't get near it

And that's without mentioning his "efforts" against Newcombe at the start of the match

 

[CrowToon]

Jesus christ, I'm trying to go positive but that list is delusional.

 

[skam85]

View attachment 2424642
If it's George ContStandYa that agrees with you.
I know who's wrong here....

Yes, you

 

[skam85]

13 Yes and 10 Maybes for a disgusting pair of team and individual performances is a massive lol

 

[Pugsley]

I had a lot of no reading that.

 

[Coopers]

I dont know. Can you repeat that question!

Who's finals ready?

Of the 24 (plus coach) who played in finals. Who's finals ready.

2. Keays - Maybe - Obviously an x factor up forward. Got in position. Give him another chance
3. Berry - Yes - Only midfield who looked good all finals.
6. Curton - Yes - Got in position, had composure.
7. Thilthorpe - Yes - Just as dominant, but others around him failed
8. Rachele - Yes - Even with no matchday fitness, he is a game changer (2 goals, 1 assist). Could be our best finals player
9. Murray - Maybe - kept his opponent out of it, but didn't hurt in the other direction.
10. Pedlar - Yes - He has X-Factor. Good mismatch against average defenders.
12 - Dawson - Maybe - What I did learn is he cant cope with the pressure inside. Okay on the wing. Needs a new role if we're going to compete.
13 - Walker - Yes - Still has it.
14 - Soligo - Maybe - He did some okay stuff, but overall invisible. I think it's lack of fitness and he's improved year on year. So I wont rule him out. But it was worrying his finals campaign
16. Michalanney - Maybe - IMHO one of the 2 most disappointing in this finals series. Which makes me second guess no, but I think it might be lack of fitness, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
19. Taylor - Yes - Has composure and takes the game on. Has the makings of a player in good moments
20. Hinge - No - Cracked under pressure.
24. Worrall - Yes - Did great in both games when everything was going against us. Honestly wouldnt be surprised if the finals won him the B+F
25. Peatling - Maybe - QF was arguably worst afield. Decent tonight. I cant read him.
28. Neal-Bullen - Maybe - I cant read him. Im leaning towards role player whom with space is okay, but cracks under pressure. Probably leaning to no.
29. Laird - Yes - One of our best in finals. Rarely beaten, found someone outside. Thrives under pressure
30. Milera - Yes - Rarely beaten.
32. Fogarty - Maybe - He plays a specific way. And it has 0% chance of working against Collingwood. And has miniscule chance of working vs Hawthorn. Hard to rate him as his downfall I think was to do with Nicks. Not him
33. Smith - Yes - Besides 1 brain fade (blazing at goal vs Collingwood) he was overall pretty good
40. Bond - Maybe - He is not the #1 small. No doubt about that. But I do think he's good enough to play a role vs a lesser player
43. O'Brien - No - I've been a big supporter of him, but the second the pressure came, he crumbled. Needs to leave and we need someone who dosn't crack
44. Cumming - No - Cracked and was useless all finals
48. Keane - Maybe - In phases he shut down his man. But he wasn't dominant in the pressure as through most of the season
HC. Nicks - No - Outcoached by McRae. And went mental in the semi. The midfield mix he was playing in the first qtr. Injecting Taylor. Honestly. Were you tanking? That's the type of shit you try vs a shit team to see whether something might work. Trying it in a final? You're either a moron who doesnt understand the gravity of the situation. Or you're an imbecile using a final to practice for the future)

Here's my take on it, ranking players A, B, C of expectation vs performance.

		Expectation	Actual	Diffferential
2​	Keays	B	C	-1	Did nothing
3​	Berry	B	C	-1	Was ok with ball, didn't get it enough, opponents torched us, camped him in the forward line to stop this, invisible there
6​	Cruton	B	C	-1	Invisible game 1, better game 2, nothing like his big in-season games
7​	Thilthorpe	A	B	-1	3 goals in game 2 yeah, but beaten up in the ruck and not dominant at all
8​	Rachele	B	B	0	Might be harsh. Played one half. Extrapolating to a 4 goal game is a very good game. Didn't do much else.
9​	Murray	B	C	-1	Shonky first final
10​	Pedlar	C	B	1	Look, he did better than expected. Still not sighted much.
12​	Dawson	A	B	-1	Didn't bring the A game.
13​	Walker	B	C	-1	Invisible in game 2.
14​	Soligo	B	B	0	Might be too lenient
16​	Michalanney	B	C	-1	Didn't do much
19​	Taylor	C	C	-1	Got what we expected. Nice Q4 vs hawks.
20​	Hinge	B	C	-1	Boo
24​	Worrall	A	A	0	Well done Woz
25​	Peatling	B	C	-1	Invisible a lot
28​	Neal-Bullen	B	B	-1	Ok, kinda. Maybe generous
29​	Laird	B	B	0	Laird was quite good. Damning we had to resort to him in the middle.
30​	Milera	B	A	1	Played 2 really good finals
32​	Fogarty	B	C	-1	Did nothing
33​	Smith	C	C	0	Got what we expected.
40​	Bond	C	C	0	Did ok, despite losing to Elliot
43​	O'Brien	B	C	-1​	Can I give a lower rank?
44​	Cumming	B	C	-1​	Useless
48​	Keane	B	C	-1​	Defended… ok. Leaked goals and frees

That's pretty shonky. I only ranked Pedlar and Milera playing above expectations. Then another 6 guys meeting expectations. So fully 2/3rds of the team not performing as well as I had hoped.

Harsh of me on Woz, who was our best across both games I think. But I expected A grade games from the bloke (and he delivered).

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

View attachment 2424642
If it's George ContStandYa that agrees with you.
I know who's wrong here....

Seven more have since agreed with it. May I ask what you actually rated about his finals? As Scorpus said, he couldn't get near it. OK, sure, stats don't paint the full picture, so maybe he had a shut-down role. Except Newcombe tore him to shreds, so he failed in a defensive role too.

 

[jamesclean]

Here's my take on it, ranking players A, B, C of expectation vs performance.

		Expectation	Actual	Diffferential
2​	Keays	B	C	-1	Did nothing
3​	Berry	B	C	-1	Was ok with ball, didn't get it enough, opponents torched us, camped him in the forward line to stop this, invisible there
6​	Cruton	B	C	-1	Invisible game 1, better game 2, nothing like his big in-season games
7​	Thilthorpe	A	B	-1	3 goals in game 2 yeah, but beaten up in the ruck and not dominant at all
8​	Rachele	B	B	0	Might be harsh. Played one half. Extrapolating to a 4 goal game is a very good game. Didn't do much else.
9​	Murray	B	C	-1	Shonky first final
10​	Pedlar	C	B	1	Look, he did better than expected. Still not sighted much.
12​	Dawson	A	B	-1	Didn't bring the A game.
13​	Walker	B	C	-1	Invisible in game 2.
14​	Soligo	B	B	0	Might be too lenient
16​	Michalanney	B	C	-1	Didn't do much
19​	Taylor	C	C	-1	Got what we expected. Nice Q4 vs hawks.
20​	Hinge	B	C	-1	Boo
24​	Worrall	A	A	0	Well done Woz
25​	Peatling	B	C	-1	Invisible a lot
28​	Neal-Bullen	B	B	-1	Ok, kinda. Maybe generous
29​	Laird	B	B	0	Laird was quite good. Damning we had to resort to him in the middle.
30​	Milera	B	A	1	Played 2 really good finals
32​	Fogarty	B	C	-1	Did nothing
33​	Smith	C	C	0	Got what we expected.
40​	Bond	C	C	0	Did ok, despite losing to Elliot
43​	O'Brien	B	C	-1​	Can I give a lower rank?
44​	Cumming	B	C	-1​	Useless
48​	Keane	B	C	-1​	Defended… ok. Leaked goals and frees

That's pretty shonky. I only ranked Pedlar and Milera playing above expectations. Then another 6 guys meeting expectations. So fully 2/3rds of the team not performing as well as I had hoped.

Harsh of me on Woz, who was our best across both games I think. But I expected A grade games from the bloke (and he delivered).

"Cruton" is wild hahaha

good assessment tho

 

[PCORF]

"Cruton" is wild hahaha

good assessment tho

Did not eat enough Croutons.

 

[adelaidecrows]

This one is a hard one really. The team looked mentally fragile and souless. Its a team sport, they are all to blame.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Seven more have since agreed with it. May I ask what you actually rated about his finals? As Scorpus said, he couldn't get near it. OK, sure, stats don't paint the full picture, so maybe he had a shut-down role. Except Newcombe tore him to shreds, so he failed in a defensive role too.

Was the only midfielder to get clean centre breaks with his pace out of the pack.
Did it 3-4 times in the Collingwood game, and I noticed it once vs Hawthorn. I didn't see anyone else do that. Maybe Dawson once vs Hawthorn.

All the other clearances through our team were 'here, you deal with it' - Though, Taylor/Laird did set up some clearances with this. At least Berry took it on and showed me he's a capable finals player.

My post isn't about who was good or who was bad. I'll happily say Fogarty was the worst player across both games (sure, Keane's Hawthorn game was worse, and Bond's Collingwood game was worse, but across both games, Fogarty was invisible) And because this was the first finals for many of the players, it's hard to judge people so early. It's a step up. Hence the maybe. Was he bad? Yes, but was it because he broke? Or was he close and just broke down due to tactics, or something else? It's why I gave him a maybe, he has the grunt to hold up to finals intensity. But he failed this year. It's why I'm undecided on him.

Same as Peatling, his QF was abysmal, but SF he showed something that makes me go, he might be someone who can hold their spot in finals.

My post was purely about who I feel can hold up to finals footy. And anyone who was a no, Hinge, O'Brien, Cumming, Nicks. What I learnt from them, is they're going to crack and fail in finals, none of them showed me anything that fills me with confidence at the elevated level. From what I learnt, they're the 4 that that should be shown the door. None of them showed me anything in finals to give me confidence.

The point of my post wasn't about the past and their performances, it was 'do they have 'it'' Those that I gave a yes to, they hold up in finals and you can build your team around (even if 2/3 are at an age they should be retiring) those that are a maybe, I'd be giving them another chance. But my no's, they cant hold up to finals footy, and should be delisted/traded now so we can actually build towards something. If we dont, we'll be carrying the same dead weight.

 

[1990crow]

Was the only midfielder to get clean centre breaks with his pace out of the pack.
Did it 3-4 times in the Collingwood game, and I noticed it once vs Hawthorn. I didn't see anyone else do that. Maybe Dawson once vs Hawthorn.

All the other clearances through our team were 'here, you deal with it' - Though, Taylor/Laird did set up some clearances with this. At least Berry took it on and showed me he's a capable finals player.

My post isn't about who was good or who was bad. I'll happily say Fogarty was the worst player across both games (sure, Keane's Hawthorn game was worse, and Bond's Collingwood game was worse, but across both games, Fogarty was invisible) And because this was the first finals for many of the players, it's hard to judge people so early. It's a step up. Hence the maybe. Was he bad? Yes, but was it because he broke? Or was he close and just broke down due to tactics, or something else? It's why I gave him a maybe, he has the grunt to hold up to finals intensity. But he failed this year. It's why I'm undecided on him.

Same as Peatling, his QF was abysmal, but SF he showed something that makes me go, he might be someone who can hold their spot in finals.

My post was purely about who I feel can hold up to finals footy. And anyone who was a no, Hinge, O'Brien, Cumming, Nicks. What I learnt from them, is they're going to crack and fail in finals, none of them showed me anything that fills me with confidence at the elevated level. From what I learnt, they're the 4 that that should be shown the door. None of them showed me anything in finals to give me confidence.

The point of my post wasn't about the past and their performances, it was 'do they have 'it'' Those that I gave a yes to, they hold up in finals and you can build your team around (even if 2/3 are at an age they should be retiring) those that are a maybe, I'd be giving them another chance. But my no's, they cant hold up to finals footy, and should be delisted/traded now so we can actually build towards something. If we dont, we'll be carrying the same dead weight.

Cumming was serviceable in the semi.
He was also far better in gws 2 finals last year.
To me that says our system sucked.

 

[glengowan]

Here's my take on it, ranking players A, B, C of expectation vs performance.

		Expectation	Actual	Diffferential
2​	Keays	B	C	-1	Did nothing
3​	Berry	B	C	-1	Was ok with ball, didn't get it enough, opponents torched us, camped him in the forward line to stop this, invisible there
6​	Cruton	B	C	-1	Invisible game 1, better game 2, nothing like his big in-season games
7​	Thilthorpe	A	B	-1	3 goals in game 2 yeah, but beaten up in the ruck and not dominant at all
8​	Rachele	B	B	0	Might be harsh. Played one half. Extrapolating to a 4 goal game is a very good game. Didn't do much else.
9​	Murray	B	C	-1	Shonky first final
10​	Pedlar	C	B	1	Look, he did better than expected. Still not sighted much.
12​	Dawson	A	B	-1	Didn't bring the A game.
13​	Walker	B	C	-1	Invisible in game 2.
14​	Soligo	B	B	0	Might be too lenient
16​	Michalanney	B	C	-1	Didn't do much
19​	Taylor	C	C	-1	Got what we expected. Nice Q4 vs hawks.
20​	Hinge	B	C	-1	Boo
24​	Worrall	A	A	0	Well done Woz
25​	Peatling	B	C	-1	Invisible a lot
28​	Neal-Bullen	B	B	-1	Ok, kinda. Maybe generous
29​	Laird	B	B	0	Laird was quite good. Damning we had to resort to him in the middle.
30​	Milera	B	A	1	Played 2 really good finals
32​	Fogarty	B	C	-1	Did nothing
33​	Smith	C	C	0	Got what we expected.
40​	Bond	C	C	0	Did ok, despite losing to Elliot
43​	O'Brien	B	C	-1​	Can I give a lower rank?
44​	Cumming	B	C	-1​	Useless
48​	Keane	B	C	-1​	Defended… ok. Leaked goals and frees

That's pretty shonky. I only ranked Pedlar and Milera playing above expectations. Then another 6 guys meeting expectations. So fully 2/3rds of the team not performing as well as I had hoped.

Harsh of me on Woz, who was our best across both games I think. But I expected A grade games from the bloke (and he delivered).

This sums up very well.

I thought Walker was one of the few ok players in the Collingwood game - but poor vs Hawthorn. Neale-Bullen in same boat.

Soligo was on Long when he ripped us a new one in the 3rd quarter vs Collingwood. Thought he was very poor overall - C.

How we kept Keane on Gunston for so long - we were saying from the seats up in aisle JJ in the Riverbank Stand to swap Keane and Murray after the first goal Gunston kicked in that 3rd quarter. Taylor did have a good 4th quarter in the middle vs Hawks - why he wasn't tried against Collingwood, instead reverting to Laird and Keays?

I'd agree, a pass mark for Worrell, Laird and Milera and Rachele did no harm to his reputation in the small amount of game time he was able to play.

Also concerning/disappointing, was that despite a number being given a chance, there were no other players who came up from the SANFL who did anything to suggest they should've been picked in the AFL side, and the SANFL went out in straight sets as well.

 

[skam85]

Here's my take on it, ranking players A, B, C of expectation vs performance.

		Expectation	Actual	Diffferential
2​	Keays	B	C	-1	Did nothing
3​	Berry	B	C	-1	Was ok with ball, didn't get it enough, opponents torched us, camped him in the forward line to stop this, invisible there
6​	Cruton	B	C	-1	Invisible game 1, better game 2, nothing like his big in-season games
7​	Thilthorpe	A	B	-1	3 goals in game 2 yeah, but beaten up in the ruck and not dominant at all
8​	Rachele	B	B	0	Might be harsh. Played one half. Extrapolating to a 4 goal game is a very good game. Didn't do much else.
9​	Murray	B	C	-1	Shonky first final
10​	Pedlar	C	B	1	Look, he did better than expected. Still not sighted much.
12​	Dawson	A	B	-1	Didn't bring the A game.
13​	Walker	B	C	-1	Invisible in game 2.
14​	Soligo	B	B	0	Might be too lenient
16​	Michalanney	B	C	-1	Didn't do much
19​	Taylor	C	C	-1	Got what we expected. Nice Q4 vs hawks.
20​	Hinge	B	C	-1	Boo
24​	Worrall	A	A	0	Well done Woz
25​	Peatling	B	C	-1	Invisible a lot
28​	Neal-Bullen	B	B	-1	Ok, kinda. Maybe generous
29​	Laird	B	B	0	Laird was quite good. Damning we had to resort to him in the middle.
30​	Milera	B	A	1	Played 2 really good finals
32​	Fogarty	B	C	-1	Did nothing
33​	Smith	C	C	0	Got what we expected.
40​	Bond	C	C	0	Did ok, despite losing to Elliot
43​	O'Brien	B	C	-1​	Can I give a lower rank?
44​	Cumming	B	C	-1​	Useless
48​	Keane	B	C	-1​	Defended… ok. Leaked goals and frees

That's pretty shonky. I only ranked Pedlar and Milera playing above expectations. Then another 6 guys meeting expectations. So fully 2/3rds of the team not performing as well as I had hoped.

Harsh of me on Woz, who was our best across both games I think. But I expected A grade games from the bloke (and he delivered).

I'd be throwing out a few Ds to some of the above players for sure (NTTAWWT)

 

[Coopers]

I'd be throwing out a few Ds to some of the above players for sure (NTTAWWT)

Well, you could also give out B+ B-, A-, C- etc kind of stuff. But then things get over complicated. It's too fiddly.


One thing that's clear looking at the above: We really did "raise the floor" of our team with the off season recruiting. Not many players I'm expecting a "C" from in the 22. That's great. In fact it's only Smith at C level where we're not expecting the guy to get better with experience.

There's a few of them I'm expecting to improve. Rash -> A, Curtin -> A, Taylor -> B, Draper -> B (next year, A longer term) & Rankine -> A (back in the team). A few I'm still hoping to improve more (Pedlar, Soligo, Bond) without holding confidence.

Definitely still improvement to come from this squad!

Still also missing enough of those "A" grade guys though. Need to get that big name mid.

 

[Moonwatcher]

Keays played poorly because our inside 50s in the last half of the season have been very shallow. He can only kick 40m reliably.

EDIT: Having said that the panic throw in the home & away match against Collingwood showed that he can't handle pressure.