Your "Manifesto"

[Brunswick Trap King]

I don't know how much you are pissing up against a wall each week but $250,000 is wealthy. If you are earning $250,000 , you should have a house paid off in 10 years not 40. Stop buying plasmas every 6 months. ffs

I have to agree lmao. Living off youth allowance + 15 hours a week of part time work 250k sounds like 225k more than I survive on, and my lifestyle feels pretty fun.

I certainly would never say that 250k is nothing.

 

[Seeds]

I don't know how much you are pissing up against a wall each week but $250,000 is wealthy. If you are earning $250,000 , you should have a house paid off in 10 years not 40. Stop buying plasmas every 6 months. ffs

Average house price now is around 800,000 dollars. 1 million in Sydney. Note that nearly all jobs that earn 250,000 are in the city so you can't live to far out in the suburbs unless you want 2 hour plus commutes everyday. With 250,000 you pay about 100, 000 in tax. So that goes to 150,000. Now subtract 35,000 in daily living costs. A lot More if you have kids and education debts which almost all do.. That goes down to 100,000 of excess income. A 800,000 dollar house once you account for interest payments is in the range of 1.2 to 1.7 million. So it will take 12-17 years to pay off a mortgage on an average house with average expenses. And this is for a person earning in the top 2 percent of income living very frugally. wealth Is very different to income in this day and age. Maybe 25 years ago it was much more similar but not now.

 

[Seeds]

I have to agree lmao. Living off youth allowance + 15 hours a week of part time work 250k sounds like 225k more than I survive on, and my lifestyle feels pretty fun.

I certainly would never say that 250k is nothing.

Well you have to earn 450,000 to have 250,000 of income.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Well you have to earn 450,000 to have 250,000 of income.

Do you mean you have to earn 450 to have 250 after tax?

 

[GreyCrow]

Average house price now is around 800,000 dollars. 1 million in Sydney. Note that nearly all jobs that earn 250,000 are in the city so you can't live to far out in the suburbs unless you want 2 hour plus commutes everyday. With 250,000 you pay about 100, 000 in tax. So that goes to 150,000. Now subtract 35,000 in daily living costs. A lot More if you have kids and education debts which almost all do.. That goes down to 100,000 of excess income. A 800,000 dollar house once you account for interest payments is in the range of 1.2 to 1.7 million. So it will take 12-17 years to pay off a mortgage on an average house with average expenses. And this is for a person earning in the top 2 percent of income living very frugally. wealth Is very different to income in this day and age. Maybe 25 years ago it was much more similar but not now.

Why didn't you mention Sydney in your OP?

Families wont live in apartments so most houses are outer city regions. Agree Sydney is a pain but other cities are fine. $700,000 will buy a nice place not far from many city areas.

Maybe lower the eyes when living on $250,000 a year

 

[Seeds]

Do you mean you have to earn 450 to have 250 after tax?

Yes. Plus you are also doing 50-60 hour weeks and living near the city which is great on weekends but sucks during the work week.

 

[Seeds]

Why didn't you mention Sydney in your OP?

Families wont live in apartments so most houses are outer city regions. Agree Sydney is a pain but other cities are fine. $700,000 will buy a nice place not far from many city areas.

Maybe lower the eyes when living on $250,000 a year

Most jobs earning 250,000 are in Sydney or Melbourne. Yes they exist in other cities and for those people they can have a much greater life style. I have no problem with the wealthy paying more, but let's actually tax the wealth rather than income which is becoming a very poor measure of wealth.

 

[JackOutback]

I have to agree lmao. Living off youth allowance + 15 hours a week of part time work 250k sounds like 225k more than I survive on, and my lifestyle feels pretty fun.

I certainly would never say that 250k is nothing.

People are like goldfish, they grow to fit their environment. People on $60,000 are encouraged to push themselves to their limits and buy a $500,000 house, people on $250,000 are pushed to buy a $2 million house. Both then feel equally stressed. Likewise, cars, clothes, activities etc. We are all encouraged to spend, spend spend.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

People are like goldfish, they grow to fit their environment. People on $60,000 are encouraged to push themselves to their limits and buy a $500,000 house, people on $250,000 are pushed to buy a $2 million house. Both then feel equally stressed. Likewise, cars, clothes, activities etc. We are all encouraged to spend, spend spend.

That's just plain stupidity (on their behalf, not yours). It'd be very easy to live a verrrrrrry comfortable lifestyle on 50k, let alone 100, let alone 150, you get the gist.

I understand what you mean, but it really shows that people are dumb. Why would one continue to live outside of their means?

 

[GreyCrow]

That's just plain stupidity (on their behalf, not yours). It'd be very easy to live a verrrrrrry comfortable lifestyle on 50k, let alone 100, let alone 150, you get the gist.

I understand what you mean, but it really shows that people are dumb. Why would one continue to live outside of their means?

A lot of reasons. Social engineering, consumer pressure, peer pressure, media manipulation.

In my parents day going out meant a once a month dinner on someones birthday or anniversary. Saturday nights were card nights with close friends. Money was saved ( there is now no incentive to save either) , mortgages were paid off first. Homes were considered an asset to keep not to use as collateral on the next bigger more expensive property.

 

[JackOutback]

That's just plain stupidity (on their behalf, not yours). It'd be very easy to live a verrrrrrry comfortable lifestyle on 50k, let alone 100, let alone 150, you get the gist.

I understand what you mean, but it really shows that people are dumb. Why would one continue to live outside of their means?

Some of it is stupidity, some of it is the reasons mentioned above (for example, if all your friends have nice things, you tend to judge yourself against them, not the many others you are significantly better off than). Some of it is just wanting nicer things; if you can 'afford' (albeit going into debt), a nicer house, why not buy it? If you can afford private education for your kids, why not? But it all adds up the point that someone on $250,000 doesn't think they are particularly rich because most of their money is going out.

 

[Seeds]

A lot of reasons. Social engineering, consumer pressure, peer pressure, media manipulation.

In my parents day going out meant a once a month dinner on someones birthday or anniversary. Saturday nights were card nights with close friends. Money was saved ( there is now no incentive to save either) , mortgages were paid off first. Homes were considered an asset to keep not to use as collateral on the next bigger more expensive property.

In your parents day in most cases the mother stayed at home and cooked every night. People go out to dinner more now because both parents are working and it's an effort to cook every night.

Stupidity is a lot to do with it but it's not all to do with it. We need to move status away from consumption and towards other endeavours. My parents constantly try to push me to buy a new car as in my parents generation having a new car was a sign of status. It's not now and I'm more than happy to only have second hand cars. the housing situation is forcing many people to pay for expensive houses as that is all there is near the cities. It's not stupidity but lack of choice.

 

[GreyCrow]

In your parents day in most cases the mother stayed at home and cooked every night. People go out to dinner more now because both parents are working and it's an effort to cook every night.

Maccas really isn't that expensive.

Is the 2nd wage enough to cover the Child Care? If your wife/husbands salary only covers Child Care then why bother? Stay home and stop going out ''because its easy''

Stupidity is a lot to do with it but it's not all to do with it. We need to move status away from consumption and towards other endeavours. My parents constantly try to push me to buy a new car as in my parents generation having a new car was a sign of status. It's not now and I'm more than happy to only have second hand cars. the housing situation is forcing many people to pay for expensive houses as that is all there is near the cities. It's not stupidity but lack of choice.

No , you are replacing cars with iPhones and Plasma tvs. You are replacing new cars with bigger houses every 5 years. It is not lack of choice but lack of will.

You choose to live near the city because you are too lazy to wake up 1 hour earlier, you choose to go out to Maccas because you are too lazy to prepare meals, you choose a lot of choices not because you are time poor but poor time managers

 

[Seeds]

Build faster rail within 50km of cbd. People can actually get around and live, and house prices will become most volatile in the inner east suburbs.
Extend the Glen Waverley line to Rowville, and put it through Dandenong to make sure commercial rail also uses it purely because more wealthy regions don't deserve a private train line funded by tax payers.

End all inequitable deals and stop buying s**t off other countries.
Tell trump he owes us free defence for the damage standing by his stupid country has done to us. As well as explaining he will take his asylum seekers as they are only here as a result of his wars.
Run our own cars on our own LPG. Stop selling it to Japs and funding arabs/yanks.
Buy back our utility companies, or if they dont play ball, undercut them with renewable energy owned by the tax payer.
Mine the trillions in gold buried above Melbourne.
Take our coal off Gina and all other national resources that were sold off from the public by unethical politicians.
Stop subsidizing business. Drop income tax to 10% flat, no deductions, depreciation. 10% tax of total revenue peroid. GENUINE losses can be offset. Only exception.
Do the NBN properly
Beef up the NRAS so farmers have a place to rent after selling their land for millions (after giving up)
Relegate religion and tax it.
Relegate Gina and make sure we get our 10% for operating and marketing her remaining beef and profiting with it from our people.
Ask someone who would normally defecate on the nature strip, why I should trust them to be fragile with our reef?
Get rid of ineffective unions, scrap casual employment for more than 8hrs per week, implement a non IPA governed fair work commission to be headed by a Greens member regardless of whoever is in government.
All guilty fair work cases to implement a no tolerance policy. Stripped from practice for 5 years. Banned from all forms of trading for 5 years. Get corrupt upper echelons in line.
Improve startup costs of small businesses, but if they still want more more more, remove all assistance and let them fend for themselves. Until they appreciate what benefits they are offered.

Allow gays and whatever to do what they want. But ban all forms of it being shoved down the throats of everyday Australians. Also preferring to ban all displays of public affection and especially awareness causes.
No more black storm troopers in Star wars.
Start fining Hipsters in Brunswick for drink driving on their bicycles.
Make cyclists pay rego, or make them buy a section of the road and paint their own bike lanes themselves.
Increase truck rego and stop recreational drivers from subsidizing the damage trucks and heavy commercial vehicles do to our roads.
Drug test all truckies. A job so high paying is already cosy enough without the luxury of also being high on shift.
Muslim Police officers MUST wear correct uniform/hats like everyone else. Religion is no good excuse.
Convict children for serious bullying offences and let that person be known to all future employers.

This post is amusing. Not meant in either a positive or negative way.

 

[Ruck Machine]

Tax
1. Lower company Tax to 20%
2. Flat Income Tax of 20% (tax free threshold 20k)
3. Raise GST to 20%
4. Close Loop Holes for Global Corporations (shifting profits)\
5. Tax Church/Religious Organisations

Freedom
1. Repeal 18C
2. Allow property owners to do whatever they like on their own land (as long it doesn't negatively impact neighbors)

Family Law
1. Mandatory Paternity Testing.
2. No child support for one night stands (only required to pay if relationship can be proven).

Indigenous Issues
1. Repeal all special indigenous funding.
2. Base all welfare on remoteness not race.
3. Repeal all affirmative action programs in cities.

Law and Order
1. Build more prisons
2. Legalise Weed
3. Longer sentences for violent criminals.
4. White collar criminals less jail time (pay higher fines/restricted from owning business etc).

Anti-Feminism
1. Make mandatory quotas illegal.
2. Ensure women serve the same prison sentences as men for the same crime.

Counter Terrorism
1. Monitor all mosques for radical teaching.
2. Monitor all Islamic schools for radical teaching.
3. Deport all radical preachers and ISIS supporters (including their immediate family).
4. Deport all practitioners of FGM (even if they have the procedure completed overseas).
5. Stop the formation of ethnic Ghettos
6. Deport all ambassadors from Wahhabi nations.
7. Ban the full face Burqa/Niqab.

 

[Seeds]

Maccas really isn't that expensive.

Is the 2nd wage enough to cover the Child Care? If your wife/husbands salary only covers Child Care then why bother? Stay home and stop going out ''because its easy''

No , you are replacing cars with iPhones and Plasma tvs. You are replacing new cars with bigger houses every 5 years. It is not lack of choice but lack of will.

You choose to live near the city because you are too lazy to wake up 1 hour earlier, you choose to go out to Maccas because you are too lazy to prepare meals, you choose a lot of choices not because you are time poor but poor time managers

Um adults dont go to maccas. Plus the cost of going out for dinners is insignificant anyway. No one who goes out to dinner a couple of times a week complains about the cost.

Many wifes want to work not because of money but because of quality of life. Looking after two kids all day drives most people insane. Your brain turns to mush. See all the extreme drinking chatter from stay at home mums. Being a stay at home mum is a major social problem that is being ignored. Plus childcare is better for kids over the age of 2 years anyway as they get to make friends and get to experience far more activities then they do at home given the limited resources at home.

As for the longer commute time. Commute times have been found to be one of the things that have the strongest links to unhappiness. One of the number one priorties of society should be to reduce commute times. No one should be having to travel more than an hour in total each day for work. Its a major mental health issue if you are doing more. To ask people to suck it up and travel longer is torture.


Oh and the notion of plasma tvs and iphones sucking up peoples costs is ridiculous. There costs are nothing. And how many tvs do you think high income earners have. Most watch less tv then low income earners. I have two in my house. One cost 800 dollars and the other 400 dollars. Its nothing. The average house has gone up 500,000 dollars in the past 10-15 years and you are complaining about a couple of thousand dolars of living costs.

 

[Seeds]

I don't think I've ever heard it being that high. Plus, I think you underestimate how many people a) want to work; and b) would get bored and eventually return to work. Yes, if the amount was too attractive, people wouldn't want to work, but it's about striking a balance. It's also something we will have to consider if we understand the ramifications of continued automation.

People would work. But maybe only two days a week. Which would still put massive strain on the system. To fund a universal income you need higher net income taxes on work so the incentive to work will also be reduced even further. Ie. It's not just the UI that stops people working but also the higher net taxes on work. Then as people start reducing work or not working at all the tax on those who do work will have to rise even further which will result in even more people to leave. The whole system effectively will collapse on itself. The problem with UI is the same with Marxism. It's unsustainable. The only universal system that will work is one in which the income is so low (say under 10,000 dollars a year) that unemployed people will still need additional unemployment benefits to live making the whole universal income pointless.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

60 percent for 250,000. You are kidding right? 250,000 is nothing. Tax wealth not income. A lot of young people on 250,000 are still renting or have ridiculous mortgages that they will be paying off for forty years while plenty of people under 100,000 are very rich thanks to risky property speculation that net them massive unearned wealth. And let's not forget all the people who earn little income but live off inheritance. We need to encourage workers and tax unearned wealth.

More than 98% of taxpayers had taxable income under $250k (98th percentile $235,435) according to ATO data for 2014. Total income was slightly higher, but the numbers I'm looking at don't give a definitive figure (maybe around 10% higher). The median was $54,369.50, agains with total income slightly higher.
$250k is, in my view, hardly "nothing".

Taxing wealth instead of income is another story. An interesting one, with its own potential benefits and pitfalls. Personally, I agree on the "unearned wealth" part. (Must add inheritance tax to my above post, they very definition of unearned wealth.)

 

[Seeds]

More than 98% of taxpayers had taxable income under $250k (98th percentile $235,435) according to ATO data for 2014. Total income was slightly higher, but the numbers I'm looking at don't give a definitive figure (maybe around 10% higher). The median was $54,369.50, agains with total income slightly higher.
$250k is, in my view, hardly "nothing".

Taxing wealth instead of income is another story. An interesting one, with its own potential benefits and pitfalls. Personally, I agree on the "unearned wealth" part. (Must add inheritance tax to my above post, they very definition of unearned wealth.)

I framed my statement incorrectly. It's not nothing in terms of income. But it can be nothing in terms of wealth for those who need to live in the big cities unless they have been earning that income for over a decade now. People who have only moved on to those sort of incomes in the last five years are not necessarily wealthy and some are relatively poor compared to the rest of the population.

Inequality isnt the greatest problem facing our society. It's wealth being accrued for reasons unrelated to work and innovation.

 

[GreyCrow]

Um adults dont go to maccas. Plus the cost of going out for dinners is insignificant anyway. No one who goes out to dinner a couple of times a week complains about the cost.

So now you are saying its only you and your wife who eat out? And you are spending $35000 on living expenses?

Many wifes want to work not because of money but because of quality of life. Looking after two kids all day drives most people insane. Your brain turns to mush. See all the extreme drinking chatter from stay at home mums. Being a stay at home mum is a major social problem that is being ignored. Plus childcare is better for kids over the age of 2 years anyway as they get to make friends and get to experience far more activities then they do at home given the limited resources at home.

I do agree people should choose to work or not , but it becomes pointless if the wage pays for child care. If you encourage many families to not use child-care then they can each visit each others houses for that social interaction.

Being a stay at home mum is a major social issue - big LOL

As for the longer commute time. Commute times have been found to be one of the things that have the strongest links to unhappiness. One of the number one priorties of society should be to reduce commute times. No one should be having to travel more than an hour in total each day for work. Its a major mental health issue if you are doing more. To ask people to suck it up and travel longer is torture.

Poor diddums

Oh and the notion of plasma tvs and iphones sucking up peoples costs is ridiculous. There costs are nothing. And how many tvs do you think high income earners have. Most watch less tv then low income earners. I have two in my house. One cost 800 dollars and the other 400 dollars. Its nothing. The average house has gone up 500,000 dollars in the past 10-15 years and you are complaining about a couple of thousand dolars of living costs.

You were the one quoting $35000 living costs. Define who for? Singles , couples or families. Your examples are all over the place

 

[GreyCrow]

Tax
1. Lower company Tax to 20%
2. Flat Income Tax of 20% (tax free threshold 20k)
3. Raise GST to 20%
4. Close Loop Holes for Global Corporations (shifting profits)\
5. Tax Church/Religious Organisations

Interesting. Would support all, but would need to look at GST after revenue from Tax Savings generated by the first 2 and number 4 and 5. Love 5

Family Law
1. Mandatory Paternity Testing.
2. No child support for one night stands (only required to pay if relationship can be proven).

Big fan of Paternity Testing. The 2nd one I would need to question. Does this mean you feel contraception is the responsibility of the female? If the female chooses to have an abortion does she have the right to ask the presumptive father to pay half or all costs of the procedure?

The rest seems to be aimed in one direction.

 

[Seeds]

So now you are saying its only you and your wife who eat out? And you are spending $35000 on living expenses?

I do agree people should choose to work or not , but it becomes pointless if the wage pays for child care. If you encourage many families to not use child-care then they can each visit each others houses for that social interaction.

Being a stay at home mum is a major social issue - big LOL

Poor diddums


You were the one quoting $35000 living costs. Define who for? Singles , couples or families. Your examples are all over the place

Your response is poor diddums. Wow. Not much point debating with you then. The point of work is to improve your life and one of the biggest ways to improve your life is to have lower commute times.

 

[GreyCrow]

Your response is poor diddums. Wow. Not much point debating with you then. The point of work is to improve your life and one of the biggest ways to improve your life is to have lower commute times.

No the one way to improve your life is to have less stress. 10 years ago I was earning $80,000 a year now I earn $18000 and I am much happier than 10 years ago.

 

[Scotland]

That's just plain stupidity (on their behalf, not yours). It'd be very easy to live a verrrrrrry comfortable lifestyle on 50k, let alone 100, let alone 150, you get the gist.

I understand what you mean, but it really shows that people are dumb. Why would one continue to live outside of their means?

People are aspirational, and ultimately money is worthless if you don't use it to increase your quality of life.

It's about creating a balance. There's a limit to how comfortable you can be before you want to level up in some aspect. If someone gave me a $10k pay rise tomorrow it probably wouldn't change anything. I'd drive the same car that has no finance on it, live in the same modest house etc. If someone gave me a $100k pay rise then I'd reassess.

 

[Ruck Machine]

The 2nd one I would need to question. Does this mean you feel contraception is the responsibility of the female? If the female chooses to have an abortion does she have the right to ask the presumptive father to pay half or all costs of the procedure?

Yes, I see contraception as the women's responsibility.

If the female chooses to have an abortion she has no right to ask father for costs.