Hird vs Judd

[bluepride]

Which year did Hird win his brownlow btw?

Well you've certainly shown that to be true.

I told you something, then you come out and say another 'nothing statement'.

Not that complex there mate, but when you have nothing to say , you can just talk crap.

Read it carefully.

 

[sidebum]

Which year did Hird win his brownlow btw?



I told you something, then you come out and say another 'nothing statement'.

You told me something that was simply incorrect and that displayed your limited football knowledge. It hardly warranted a decent response.

Hird and Voss tied for the Brownlow in 1996. Common knowledge for most footy fans.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

If Judd does that I will consider him the greatest of all time.

As will all Carlton supporters, but thanks for the + 1

 

[bluepride]

I love your join date.

You told me something that was simply incorrect.

How can a opinion be wrong?

2nd Fail of the thread from you.

and that displayed your limited football knowledge..

Cool story Hansel.

Hird and Voss tied for the Brownlow in 1996. Common knowledge for most footy fans.

Memory blank.

 

[sidebum]

I love your join date.


How can a opinion be wrong?

2nd Fail of the thread from you.




Cool story Hansel.



Memory blank.

Not certain why your attempting to start a shit fight. You're not going to find one here.

 

[Rack Watts]

They're on par if we go by the current stage of Judd's career and Hird's at that stage.

 

[TownleyTime]

Judd 04/06 was at a level Hird never got to.

 

[jonoman89]

Judd 04/06 was at a level Hird never got to.

Tend to agree with this.

But Jimmy was very consistent over the years with his game breaking ability. At the end of every season you could look over the fixture and say to yourself that Jimmy singe-handedly destroyed that team, this team etc.

Judd however destroyed teams each week for about 2-3 years.

And Buckley/Voss better than Judd?....honestly. Hird and Judd are twice the players they are.

 

[robertg22]

Judd has not yet done enough to go past Hird, Buckley etc but is a good chance to do so by the end of his career.

I tend to disagree with this, I can't see Judd getting any better than he currently is, in fact I'd say he was far more damaging between 04 and the first half of 07 when he started to feel the injuries.
Judd's a magnificent player, two brownlows is proof of this. But Hird is simply one of the best to ever play the game and there are very few in his company.

 

[The Bomb]

Hirds best is better then Judds best

Judd Hird
Poss / Goals

18 3 25 6
15 3 20 4
26 3 26 4
15 3 26 4
17 5 18 4
33 3 18 4
23 4 15 4
17 3 23 5
23 3 23 4
32 3 14 5
39 4 16 5
21 3 23 4
28 3 28 6
24 3 31 4
31 3 25 4
21 4
29 4
28 4
19 4
18 5
16 4
27 5
27 4

Judd has 1 five goal haul, 2 fours and 11 threes.
Hird has 2 sixes, 5 fives, 16 fours and 29 threes.

and Hird kicked 3 goals on 29 ocassions, over all Hird played 55 more games and 38 times kicked 3 or more goals in a game then Judd.
Judd averages 2 poss a game more.

That is the difference. Hird killed teams when he was on. And missed his prime years of 24 1997, 25 1998, 26 1999 after the 96 brownlow, and still has Judd covered.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Stats aren't everything Bomb, particularly when you get to the champions of the game like Judd and Hird are, it's more about what the naked eye sees rather than facts and figures.

But just a word of warning, underestimate Hird's ball-winning ability at your peril. Might not have had the brute strength/explosive of Judd, but boy, could he magic the ball out of a pack through sheer will and courage.

 

[The Bomb]

Stats aren't everything Bomb, particularly when you get to the champions of the game like Judd and Hird are, it's more about what the naked eye sees rather than facts and figures.

But just a word of warning, underestimate Hird's ball-winning ability at your peril. Might not have had the brute strength/explosive of Judd, but boy, could he magic the ball out of a pack through sheer will and courage.

I understand what you are saying, But 1st thing I thought when doing the comparison was, Hird is so much more dangerous and could just simply put teams away of off his own boot.
Stats just confirmed it.

 

[jonoman89]

^ Goals isn't a very useful stat for direct comparison as Hird played HF alot.

Judd was/is always in the guts.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Hirds best is better then Judds best

Judd Hird
Poss / Goals

18 3 25 6
15 3 20 4
26 3 26 4
15 3 26 4
17 5 18 4
33 3 18 4
23 4 15 4
17 3 23 5
23 3 23 4
32 3 14 5
39 4 16 5
21 3 23 4
28 3 28 6
24 3 31 4
31 3 25 4
21 4
29 4
28 4
19 4
18 5
16 4
27 5
27 4

Judd has 1 five goal haul, 2 fours and 11 threes.
Hird has 2 sixes, 5 fives, 16 fours and 29 threes.

and Hird kicked 3 goals on 29 ocassions, over all Hird played 55 more games and 38 times kicked 3 or more goals in a game then Judd.
Judd averages 2 poss a game more.

That is the difference. Hird killed teams when he was on. And missed his prime years of 24 1997, 25 1998, 26 1999 after the 96 brownlow, and still has Judd covered.

Ah, the supercoach generation.........

So young yet so much perspective

 

[Monkey King]

Good poll.
Hird just, but Judd by careers end. What is he 26?
At Carlton he is like a good bottle of wine. 3 years - 3 B&F's 3 AA, AA Captain, Brownlow. He's getting better with age. H's now the behttp://www.bigfooty.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=20415137st contested, clearance player in the game. Looks set for a massive year by all reports.

Your posts on players are usually well reasoned mate. I always enjoy it when I stumble across your contributions around the place.

I would put Hird just ahead at this stage overall, but think they get closer when heading to "same stage of career" comparisons; in fact I'd probably put Judd ahead, due to Hird's injuries during this phase. Can't see Judd going another 7 seasons from here like Jim though.

Those "best player I've seen" comments spin me out though, as there were better players than Hird running around during his career.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Hirds best is better then Judds best

Judd Hird
Poss / Goals

18 3 25 6
15 3 20 4
26 3 26 4
15 3 26 4
17 5 18 4
33 3 18 4
23 4 15 4
17 3 23 5
23 3 23 4
32 3 14 5
39 4 16 5
21 3 23 4
28 3 28 6
24 3 31 4
31 3 25 4
21 4
29 4
28 4
19 4
18 5
16 4
27 5
27 4

Judd has 1 five goal haul, 2 fours and 11 threes.
Hird has 2 sixes, 5 fives, 16 fours and 29 threes.

and Hird kicked 3 goals on 29 ocassions, over all Hird played 55 more games and 38 times kicked 3 or more goals in a game then Judd.
Judd averages 2 poss a game more.

That is the difference. Hird killed teams when he was on. And missed his prime years of 24 1997, 25 1998, 26 1999 after the 96 brownlow, and still has Judd covered.

Not really as relevant as you are arguing.

Hird kicked more goals but he played CHF/HF a lot. He was never able to bounce off players in a pack and burst away through traffic and kick a goal from 50 out like Judd was, however.

Judd's best season (06) was better than anything Hird produced. Funnily enough, Hird's best year might've even been 1995 (his fourth).

 

[BrownPearHookers]

Both are all time greats, Both are top echelon, Both can kill any team any given day, Both a joy to watch, Both can be tagged out of it.
Hird and Judd for me.

 

[yarran13]

Judd hasn't reached the level of Voss and Buckley and Hird was better than both those players.

Hird comfortably.

Judd>Voss>>>>>>Buckley

Bucks was about as good as R.Harvey. Still good, but not quite as good as the Juddman.

Oh and Hird just pips Judd but by careers end when he's held up a cup or 2 at Carlton Judd will be remembered as the best there has been.

 

[Monkey King]

Judd>Voss>>>>>>Buckley

Bucks was about as good as R.Harvey. Still good, but not quite as good as the Juddman.

Hmm. I know a lot of people see it this way, but I rate Buckley as a player shade higher than Voss, with the latter the better captain. Both clearly behind Hird, but not by that much.

 

[larson]

Your posts on players are usually well reasoned mate. I always enjoy it when I stumble across your contributions around the place.

I would put Hird just ahead at this stage overall, but think they get closer when heading to "same stage of career" comparisons; in fact I'd probably put Judd ahead, due to Hird's injuries during this phase. Can't see Judd going another 7 seasons from here like Jim though.

Those "best player I've seen" comments spin me out though, as there were better players than Hird running around during his career.

Who? Carey would be the only one, I can't really remember his best years 1994-98 as well as I remember Hird's best.

Hird is the best I've seen (probably biased), but he could do everything, dominate the air, dominate the clearances, kick the freakish goals, turn a game by himself and is he is by far the most courageous Essendon player I've ever seen.

It's weird that since the famous 3 have retired, Hird's rep has gone up, where Bucks and Voss' reps have dropped a bit.

Too hard to vote here as Judd hasn't finished yet, but if he keeps up what he has done so far it would be impossible to split.

 

[Monkey King]

Who? Carey would be the only one, I can't really remember his best years 1994-98 as well as I remember Hird's best.

Carey, Ablett and Williams just off the top of my head from the 90's. I've got a couple of other contentious ones in mind, but these three will do. Certainly not in the back end of his career though.

It's weird that since the famous 3 have retired, Hird's rep has gone up, where Bucks and Voss' reps have dropped a bit.

Great point. I find this interesting too. When they retired, the question was how people split them. These days it's found some conformity that Hird was best, and time has been kind to him in this regard.

I still have a chuckle when people say he was the best they've seen, as to me it just says they didn't even see his whole career. Not sure I could find room for Hirdy in a top 20 tbh.

 

[Espe]

I was going to reply to this thread in a typical bomber fan fasion of "Hird is better". But I then thought "who would I want in my team, at the peak of their careers". For me that was a really tough decision, Judd was simply amazing at his peak, pure dominance. Hird was aswell, but in a different more 'brilliance' way. If i was playing dream time right now I'd pick Judd.

However the main problem with Judd is that he requires that athletism and strength to be the great player we know he is. How long he can keep it up? Well you'd assume it would fade with time.

This is what I think will put Hird ahead by the end of Judds career. Hirdy wasn't a natural athlete, but he was such a brilliant player and put his body on the line like no other, and did this right till the day he retired, but most importantly, he is probably one of the best leaders/captains Essendon has ever and will have. He even got over 30 odd touches, couple of goals, and contender for goal of the year in his last game IIRC?

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

I'd have Hird now, but Judd realistically can go past him in the future (my bias has me hoping not though ). I'd still have both ahead of Buckley

 

[Trendy Micro]

Difficult.

Hird was a champion player but has been made a "legend" by the media.

He isn't the best player I have seen, nor was he the most consistently "great" of all the great players I have watched.

He would definitely be in the top few though.

I think if Judd stays fit he may just shade him by the end of his career. Judd is just so consistently dominant and will benefit immensely from more support. His best in 06, is possibly the best I have seen from a midfielder.

Also, terrible selective use of stats. Hird often played as a HFF. Whilst Hird's versatility is to be admired, Judd's goals for the most part were still kicked while he was playing in the guts. They are two very different players and choosing something like goals would be like me displaying only clearances, first possessions or hard ball gets to determine who is the better player.

 

[thetank]

Don't know why people are saying "if Judd has another few years".

Judd's accolades and skills are already well-established enough, and he has already passed his peak (West Coast Judd).

Anyway, Judd for me - easily. Whether it's picking the player at the start of their career, or at their peak.