Hird vs Judd
- Thread starter sweet as 2
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Ochre
Stop the Steal!
has there been another Judd thats played AFL? Guzz must think its referring to him
Pretty silly comment by guzz.
Judd is a champion, there's no need to denigrate him to try and arge that Hird is better.
Hird is one of the all time greats. He doesn't need other players to be put down to prove it.
Judd is a champion, there's no need to denigrate him to try and arge that Hird is better.
Hird is one of the all time greats. He doesn't need other players to be put down to prove it.
Judd did not go exceed 20 disposals until his 12th game. Hird had 20 plus disposals 5 of his first 9 games and kicked 17 goals in those games. Slow start indeed.
Re the 17 games where he had less than 10 disposals- 14 of them were immediately followed by missed games ie periods of injury.
Its true that Hird missed the best part of 3 years when he should have been at his peak but he also managed to come back from that on was still his sides best player winning a B & F in his last year at 34.
Actually Hird had the ball on the string for a quarter. Judd was the better footballer that year but he was helpless as everyone else is to best Hird when he gets serious. Hird's best is far far ahead of Judd's who has never reached the heights of a Hird.
- Banned
- #81
Not only was he not at his best on a wing, I can't actually recall him ever playing on a wing since Malthouse took over. He was a pure centre square midfielder. And he was not "above average" at contested ball - you don't break the all-time AFL record for clearances by being "above average".
It's hard to compare a player that still has several years left playing and a player who has retired, both absolute superstars/champions of the game
If you ask me whose best is/was better, I'd say Judd, those years at WCE from 04-06 were the best I've seen from any midfielder, he was amazing, he was an explosive, inside and outside, goal kicking midfielder....Hird was obviously more flexible in that he could play forward and kick goals
Over their careers, you would prob just say Hird considering he's retired and played a lot longer, but by careers end I'd be pretty confident Judd will surpass him, Judd carries his team now and is still a gun, and there's a good chance he could be captain of another premiership side over the next 3 or 4 years
Btw, Hird and Judd comfortable ahead of Buckley
If you ask me whose best is/was better, I'd say Judd, those years at WCE from 04-06 were the best I've seen from any midfielder, he was amazing, he was an explosive, inside and outside, goal kicking midfielder....Hird was obviously more flexible in that he could play forward and kick goals
Over their careers, you would prob just say Hird considering he's retired and played a lot longer, but by careers end I'd be pretty confident Judd will surpass him, Judd carries his team now and is still a gun, and there's a good chance he could be captain of another premiership side over the next 3 or 4 years
Btw, Hird and Judd comfortable ahead of Buckley
Either people are too young to remember anything about players or they're blinded by stats.
In this case, Hird by a mile. Judd cannot play multiple positions on the ground. Hird could and he would find the ball on a string as well.
End of story. Not saying Judd isn't any good, he is a champion but not in Hird's class.
In this case, Hird by a mile. Judd cannot play multiple positions on the ground. Hird could and he would find the ball on a string as well.
End of story. Not saying Judd isn't any good, he is a champion but not in Hird's class.
I find it remarkable that you use Hird playing less games in the peak of his career as a negative against Hird, when the simple fact of the matter is Hird is rated so highly despite missing so many games.
If anything that counts against Judd in this contest.
Also, you are a Carlton supporter not old enough to remember Hird, so you're just looking at stats. No offense, but your opinion is pretty much worthless
You misread the post.
Buckley holds the league record for clearances in one season. Ie no other player has matched Buckley in 2003.
Judd at his best, 2006, was not as good as Buckley in 2003 in terms of winning the ball from the clearances.
Buckley's best, was a better clearance machine than anything Judd has done.
Buckley would fire out 60m lace out passes.....much more effective than a dinky handball or helicopter kick that Judd would do.
Yep an obvious strength of Buckley.....you want Buckley winning the hard ball, and then also giving it out to another Buckley to use his sublime skills....you dont want Judd with the pill out on his own, much rather a guy like Gibbs with it.
People seem to associate mid 90s Buckley, ie when he was played as a sweeper, as the only footy he played.
Once Malthouse came, he moved Buckley from the flanks to a pure centreman, and he played his best footy from 99-03. When he dominated the inside ball, hence his league record for clearances in 2003.
- Banned
- #87
Hird acheived more, and while I probably didn't see enough of Hird to be sure, I would take Judd over him in a heartbeat. Still the best player I've ever laid eyes on.
Hirds speciality was sharking the ball and snapping a goal, he was a better HF then a mid (where both Buckley and Voss had him covered).
If this was who was the better mid between Judd and Hird, Judd would win but when you consider Hird can go forward and win a game he has Judd covered as an all round player imo.
Hird was not a better player then Buckley, Hird was the media love child and his rep out grew his actual ability he was a great player but the media love fest and the fact he captained the 00 team enhanced his rep.
It's very interesting to see how far off Buckley's status has dropped since retirement and to a lesser degree Voss'.
Buckley > Hird > Voss
Then the next tier had Ricuito , Harvey , Crawford ect all champions but a shade below the above 3.
I do remember Hird - at least, Hird post 1999. I didn't see his early years but I've been watching the majority of his career.
I'm not marking him down for having played less games in the peak of his career. All I'm arguing is that at the same age, Judd was ahead. Which he is. 88 more games from a champion at the same stage of his career demands it to be so.
The next 5 years will determine whether he deserves the mantle of better player overall.
And how exactly does it count against Judd who's barely missed any games through injury in his career and is still going strong?
- Banned
- #90
A lot of misconceptions being floated here on Hird, Judd and even Buckley . . .
- Banned
- #91
Same stage of career would be at the same amount of games, not necessarily at the same age.
Hird was struck down with a foot injury when arguably at his best, then came back and played a different role. Judd's almost at 200 games now. At 200 games I'd say Hird was the better player.
Really, got a link? Never heard of that.
Agree to disagree. Judd has a a much stronger reputation for the hard ball than Bucks, and it's justified. Not just with clearances. His tackle stats and contested ball stats are higher.
Clearances aren't the defining stat of a grunt mid anyway: you can get clearances without it being counted as a contested disposal. Nick Stevens often excelled at them and he wasn't hard at it.
Chris Judd post-2008 is one of the best inside midfielders in the last decade or so. If not the best.
Bucks had great skills in all areas. But he wasn't as a good a contested ball player as Judd. That i simply cannot agree with.
And p.s. i do realise that Bucks was a centre square mid, i just made the wing comment in reference to him being at his best with space to run and deliver the ball with precision. A player with kicking skills like his is wasted at the bottom of a pack.
- Banned
- #93
Judd's best inside work was done at West Coast where he won the hardballgets and contestedpossession stats for four years straight.
Hasn't won the hardballgets since being at Carlton, and hasn't won the contested possession every year either.
We're talking averages here btw.
Judd has more individual accolades than Hird and he's not even finished playing yet.
It's much closer than "Hird > Judd".
that would be right
indivual accolades rather than team/club/afl
in other words-Dudd is out for himself
- Jul 11, 2007
- 10,821
- 82
- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
What more does Judd need to do to have a career as good as Hird's? They've both had outstanding team and individual success.
For me, there's not much separating them career-wise, and so it comes down to what they bring to the table as players. Hird a more complete and versatile player, against Judd who is better what he specialises in. I vote Hird.
For me, there's not much separating them career-wise, and so it comes down to what they bring to the table as players. Hird a more complete and versatile player, against Judd who is better what he specialises in. I vote Hird.
I love it whenever you post a stat HP cause 9/10 times it's created through your regular selective sample pool or (like this case) completely incorrect.
Judd had the highest clearance rate in the AFL for 2010: http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/player_profile?pid=2002147
I will try and dig it out, or perhaps somebody else knows it...
But from memory Bucks had something like 160 clearances in 2003, and Judd's best was 150ish in 2006.
Tackle numbers are much higher these days, as there is a bigger influence on them.
Do you even know what constitutes a contested possession?
Champion Data defines that 'contested possessions' consist of Hard Ball Gets, Contested Marks, Free Kicks, AND Loose Ball Gets.
A player running onto a loose ball out on his own on the wing gets credited with a 'contested possession'!!
I know my stats, it is contested possessions which is the most meaningless stat of all.......because people dont even know what they measure!
Judd's best season was 2006, post 2006 he has gone downhill.
Buckley played different roles during his career...early he was a sweeper and a link man.
His prime he was a contested ball star.
Then he finished as a forward threat.
Buckley was at his best when he was doing it all.
- Banned
- #99
Pro stats is full of errors. Note that he's down for 551 disposals, and everywhere else the correct figure of 539 is used.
Not to mention that I didn't even mention clearances . . . lol?
But he didn't have the highest contested possession rate!
Compare Buckley's 2003 clearances with any of Judd's years.
