Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[Old Campaigner]

Let's just laugh at Collingwood being unable to score more than 60-70 points tomorrow night.

Aren't you the plucky optimist.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I'm richer than I was 4 hours ago.

 

[yaco55]

I actually thought he was reasonable pushing up the wings in the Gold Coast game.

Carlisle was useful for parts of the game as a lead up target against the GC. The ideal scenario is getting the ball within 70 metres of goal. Hurley would attack the ball and often lead but dropped too many marks. Carlisle is a more reliable mark and needs to get to positions to use this attribute.

Anyway lets see what happens in the first three rounds - At least then I know that Chapman and Goddard will actually hit a target.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Carlisle was useful for parts of the game as a lead up target against the GC. The ideal scenario is getting the ball within 70 metres of goal. Hurley would attack the ball and often lead but dropped too many marks. Carlisle is a more reliable mark and needs to get to positions to use this attribute.

Anyway lets see what happens in the first three rounds - At least then I know that Chapman and Goddard will actually hit a target.

The other thing is that Steinberg, Thurlow and Ambrose all played in either or both of Carlisle's 2 pre-season games.

If we're going in with 2 KPFs, we haven't seen it yet. No point judging either way until we've seen the actual structure, in a game where two of the best kicks in the league (Goddard and Chapman) aren't doing their best Matt Priddis impersonation.

 

[fishardansin]

In physical terms Ambrose is Black/Tarrant juiced up. Seriously, he's about 20 kgs heavier than Rayner, the strongest guy at our club, 6'4 and only just gets done by the national 800m champion in a 3km time trial.

Whatever reasoning was behind him not getting pre-season games behind Steinberg and Hardingham was deeply, deeply flawed and hints at complete denial on the part of the coaching staff (heard nothing to suggest that Ambrose didn't put in over the pre-season).

Don't care who was working hard. They were known quantities and they are not good enough or physically capable of playing the roles required in the forward line.

I'm yet to watch the match against the Tigers (and Ambrose may well have stunk) but we've lost the opportunity to develop chemistry between the types of guys are capable of addressing our forwardline woes.

I agree with Ambrose being developed into our lead up player. I would like Hurley in the forward line as an enforcer, but I accept that his body may not cope with that. Then Daniher is the cream on the cake after that. I would play Ryder as a genuine second ruck with Bellchambers taking the majority of time on the ball. Daniher has shown this preseason that he'll be defensively capable player, Hurley would need to pull his finger out from previous years. Ambrose can be that lead up player who we play through and while our small forwards aren't great our mids and half backs are pretty good so they feed Ambrose who gives the hands back so that play is split wide open and they can hit someone up or have a ping themselves. Then if a lot of defensive work is put into Ambrose Daniher and Hurley will have a lot of space deeper.

Small forwards are an issue for us but I like the idea of extra mids in the rotation so playing 3 who rotate through the forwardline. Winderlich is the guy who can do a job defensively. He does it so well because he leads up at the ball as well so he can keep his man occupied. Chappy is going to add something deep that we haven't had for a long time, it would have been great to see Davey work with him. Anyhow I know that the coaches see Gleeson as a mid long term and that goal against Richmond says to me that he'll be great up forward with his time in the midfield slowly increasing over the years. J. Merrett has show that too. Jetta has had a pretty good preseaons apparently and BJ was pointing him out early in the preseason as one to watch.

I want Carlisle to go down back as that 198cm marking player is something we lack. Yes Hooker is 196 but it could the addition of arms or whatever but Carlisle definitely has a longer reach. We also don't need that up forward as Daniher develops as a 201cm guy with a pretty big leap, plus a resting ruck we need a strong bodied competitive beast (Hurley) and a lead up player with a massive tank who will also work hard defensively (Ambrose).

I realise that he hasn't played a game, however, he can be taught where to run but we can't teach people to have his size and athleticism. In fact if the game plan is to look for him when on the defensive side of centre then he'll get plenty of chances and will develop very quickly.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I'm richer than I was 4 hours ago.

I'm just richer from the experience

 

[BrunoV]

I agree with Ambrose being developed into our lead up player. I would like Hurley in the forward line as an enforcer, but I accept that his body may not cope with that. Then Daniher is the cream on the cake after that. I would play Ryder as a genuine second ruck with Bellchambers taking the majority of time on the ball. Daniher has shown this preseason that he'll be defensively capable player, Hurley would need to pull his finger out from previous years. Ambrose can be that lead up player who we play through and while our small forwards aren't great our mids and half backs are pretty good so they feed Ambrose who gives the hands back so that play is split wide open and they can hit someone up or have a ping themselves. Then if a lot of defensive work is put into Ambrose Daniher and Hurley will have a lot of space deeper.

Small forwards are an issue for us but I like the idea of extra mids in the rotation so playing 3 who rotate through the forwardline. Winderlich is the guy who can do a job defensively. He does it so well because he leads up at the ball as well so he can keep his man occupied. Chappy is going to add something deep that we haven't had for a long time, it would have been great to see Davey work with him. Anyhow I know that the coaches see Gleeson as a mid long term and that goal against Richmond says to me that he'll be great up forward with his time in the midfield slowly increasing over the years. J. Merrett has show that too. Jetta has had a pretty good preseaons apparently and BJ was pointing him out early in the preseason as one to watch.

I want Carlisle to go down back as that 198cm marking player is something we lack. Yes Hooker is 196 but it could the addition of arms or whatever but Carlisle definitely has a longer reach. We also don't need that up forward as Daniher develops as a 201cm guy with a pretty big leap, plus a resting ruck we need a strong bodied competitive beast (Hurley) and a lead up player with a massive tank who will also work hard defensively (Ambrose).

I realise that he hasn't played a game, however, he can be taught where to run but we can't teach people to have his size and athleticism. In fact if the game plan is to look for him when on the defensive side of centre then he'll get plenty of chances and will develop very quickly.

Like the way you think.

Need to correct post you quoted. I may have made up the "strongest player" part though Dodoro said he would be the best athlete at the club on the day he was drafted.

He's also a genuine 191cm. In team photo he's about half an inch shorter than Hurley.

Not that it changes much, if anything, just don't want to have exaggerated.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Like the way you think.

Need to correct post you quoted. I may have made up the "strongest player" part though Dodoro said he would be the best athlete at the club on the day he was drafted.

He's also a genuine 191cm. In team photo he's about half an inch shorter than Hurley.

Not that it changes much, if anything, just don't want to have exaggerated.

He's taller than me, and I'm 193-4.

 

[BrunoV]

He's taller than me, and I'm 193-4.

Astbury and Chaplin were both noticeably taller than him and Hurley was taller than him in the team photo. He's 6'3.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Astbury and Chaplin were both noticeably taller than him and Hurley was taller than him in the team photo. He's 6'3.

Trust me, I'm basing this off the last time I stood next to him.

 

[BrunoV]

Far be it from me to tell someone I've never met how tall he is but it makes Chaplin about 203 cm which makes Hampson about 213cm which makes Sandilands about 230cm.

 

[Howard Moon]

i was wondering why he monstered grundy so bad...

 

[Howard Moon]

last night would be proof that having a gun leading strong marking key forward does not make a forward structure, freo dismantled collingwood and cloke like a kid pulling apart a bug bit by bit.

 

[fishardansin]

Trust me, I'm basing this off the last time I stood next to him.

Were you pressing a boner into him?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Were you pressing a boner into him?

That was when I stood next to Stanton.

 

[fishardansin]

I'm watching Patton and Cameron teaming up ... can we get them in our forward line! Dyson and a third rounder?

 

[rines]

I'm watching Patton and Cameron teaming up ... can we get them in our forward line! Dyson and a third rounder?

We've been through this.. you have to throw in Jetta as well!!!

 

[yaco55]

The other thing is that Steinberg, Thurlow and Ambrose all played in either or both of Carlisle's 2 pre-season games.

If we're going in with 2 KPFs, we haven't seen it yet. No point judging either way until we've seen the actual structure, in a game where two of the best kicks in the league (Goddard and Chapman) aren't doing their best Matt Priddis impersonation.

I agree with your last sentence. Think Chappy and Goddard were deliberately kicking to the opposition - We are in for a world of pain if not.

 

[Howard Moon]

I agree with your last sentence. Think Chappy and Goddard were deliberately kicking to the opposition - We are in for a world of pain if not.

lets just put it down to heavy legged hard training loads....hadnt tipped out yet.

 

[yaco55]

last night would be proof that having a gun leading strong marking key forward does not make a forward structure, freo dismantled collingwood and cloke like a kid pulling apart a bug bit by bit.

Poor example.

Cloke was the only tall forward - as teams don't worry about Witts YET - And Collingwood's foot skills are barely league standard.

 

[calyam]

I'm watching Patton and Cameron teaming up ... can we get them in our forward line! Dyson and a third rounder?

Lets not be greedy. How about we just take Boyd off their hands? They aren't even using him.

 

[rines]

Lets not be greedy. How about we just take Boyd off their hands? They aren't even using him.

I'm not throwing in Jetta just to get Boyd.. Dyson + 3rd rounder should be MORE than enough..

 

[Howard Moon]

youd have to say the ambrose upgrade totally vindicates us in here who were calling for the lead up vs the ones saying our structure is fine and wait fior it to gel.

 

[Old Campaigner]

youd have to say the ambrose upgrade totally vindicates us in here who were calling for the lead up vs the ones saying our structure is fine and wait fior it to gel.

I've forgotten which one I was arguing was the case but I'll claim it.

 

[Howard Moon]

like an argument with my missus, half way in and im now arguing about what is it we are aguing about...