Society/Culture Australia, the home of subtle racism.

[Catfish Alley]

Whose law? Yours or theirs? When Cook got stranded in the Great Barrier reef, why did he try and trade for supplies, why didn't he just take it? No one owned it, if you're correct in saying there was no legal owner.

Then why do we still discriminate, teach bullshit history?

We can't be not racist, its impossible, unless we want to admit what we're doing. We're at war with them.

True, there was tribal law.

I meant aboriginal life as they knew it is gone.

Yep, that's why I said aspire. I doubt there would ever be no racism.

 

[slicedndiced]

I'll just park this here.

Thanks for that mate.

I'm a little old for rap, but I listened to that intensely. And his story and message is spot on.

 

[Slax]

I know this will sound condescending and I'll likely get picked on for it, but if our racism is just subtle then were are doing better than most of the Western world. Humanity is basically racist, we don't feel comfortable with people different to us being around us. People are quick to spot those obviously different to ourselves and we treat them different, often without even realising that we are doing it, it is just the way we are.

 

[Norwood1878]

Thanks for that mate.

I'm a little old for rap, but I listened to that intensely. And his story and message is spot on.

Yeah, it's a good hook with a strong message plus he deliberately shot the vid at eye level so the viewer would have to look him in the eyes. Local Adelaide artist.

 

[slicedndiced]

Why was the survey only for white people? Why not ask asians, greeks, italians, sudanese, south african, eastern europeans, Indians... Oh wait - So they either only surveyed white people (subtle racism) or they surveyed people of various background but slapped on an opening line about how racist white people are because it generates attention (more subtle racsim).

I wonder if anyone running this program took Senator Nova Peris' advice -


Do I think indigenous people in this country get a 'fair' chance? Absolutely not. But this advertising campaign comes across like we should feel sorry for them specifically and take pity, rather than treating everyone fairly.

I think that is more the journalists fault for using the "white" tag than the actual outcome of the survey.

I also don't think that this is asking for pity at all.

It is trying to highlight the relationship between racism, in all of its forms, and depression.

As stated by a few here, some people don't even realise the subtle nature of their actions, (and many do it without malice I am sure), and the effect it has on people.

That's not asking for pity, it's asking for a bit of education and enlightenment.

 

[little graham]

I'll just park this here.

Briallant.

I noticed the reference to the gang of 49. I think its relevant we look at that

 

[L_W_P]

I think that is more the journalists fault for using the "white" tag than the actual outcome of the survey.

I also don't think that this is asking for pity at all.

It is trying to highlight the relationship between racism, in all of its forms, and depression.

As stated by a few here, some people don't even realise the subtle nature of their actions, (and many do it without malice I am sure), and the effect it has on people.

That's not asking for pity, it's asking for a bit of education and enlightenment.

Then why the focus on indigenous people?

I understand they are talking about the high rate of depression related suicide (DRS) in indigenous people but is that rate high compared to just white people or to all other races? I'd dare say that sudanese, veitnamese, indian, middle eastern etc peoples also suffer from racism (both subtle and overt) but we don't have a campaign relating to their race based suicide rate.

So if the indiginous DRS is only being compared to white people, then surely we must also look at other races to see if this problem is occuring through all people who feel discriminated against. If it is then this campaign should recognise them all equally instead of putting the focus on one set of people.

If the DRS rate in other races/cultures isn't as high, then maybe we need to look at other factors that might influence indigenous people outside the broad umbrella of 'racism'.

 

[Keys]

Then why the focus on indigenous people?

I understand they are talking about the high rate of depression related suicide (DRS) in indigenous people but is that rate high compared to just white people or to all other races? I'd dare say that sudanese, veitnamese, indian, middle eastern etc peoples also suffer from racism (both subtle and overt) but we don't have a campaign relating to their race based suicide rate.

So if the indiginous DRS is only being compared to white people, then surely we must also look at other races to see if this problem is occuring through all people who feel discriminated against. If it is then this campaign should recognise them all equally instead of putting the focus on one set of people.

If the DRS rate in other races/cultures isn't as high, then maybe we need to look at other factors that might influence indigenous people outside the broad umbrella of 'racism'.

The indigenous are the most disadvantaged people in our country by some margin

Personally, I think there are elements within the aboriginal community that don't do enough to help themselves and that there the bureaucracy that has built up around indiginous welfare is ineffective at getting the help where it is most needed. But to deny that they are disadvantaged and need help even if that is over and above the help given to other disadvantaged groups is nonsensical

 

[L_W_P]

The indigenous are the most disadvantaged people in our country by some margin

Personally, I think there are elements within the aboriginal community that don't do enough to help themselves and that there the bureaucracy that has built up around indiginous welfare is ineffective at getting the help where it is most needed. But to deny that they are disadvantaged and need help even if that is over and above the help given to other disadvantaged groups is nonsensical

I'm not saying they aren't disadvantaged. I can totally understand the POV that Beyond Blue and the people behind this campaign are putting forward.

All I'm trying to understand is why indigenous people should get additional help/recognition in the campaign, above and beyond what people of other minorites are getting, based on their race?

Why not include people of all backgrounds?

Also all of the racists in this ad are white. The only exception being the shop keeper, who would be well within his right to be keeping an eye on anyone who entered his shop. This seems to push a very dangerous stereotype on white people that they are the major offenders when it comes to racism.

While I don't disagree on a personal level with the assumption this sort of assumption is, in and of itself, RACIST!

 

[Norwood1878]

How many are familiar with Jane Elliot's Blue eyed, brown eyed racism experiment? Imagine this over many generations.

 

[Norwood1878]

I'm not saying they aren't disadvantaged. I can totally understand the POV that Beyond Blue and the people behind this campaign are putting forward.

All I'm trying to understand is why indigenous people should get additional help/recognition, above and beyond what people of other minorites are getting, based on their race?

Why not include people of all backgrounds?

Also all of the racists in this ad are white. The only exception being the shop keeper, who would be well within his right to be keeping an eye on anyone who entered his shop. This seems to push a very dangerous stereotype on white people that they are the major offenders when it comes to racism.

While I don't disagree on a personal level with the assumption this sort of assumption is, in and of itself, RACIST!

Aboriginal Australians have the highest rates of suicide in Australia and recent studies show that they also have the highest rates of suicide of any of worlds indigenous peoples.

 

[L_W_P]

Aboriginal Australians have the highest rates of suicide in Australia and recent studies show that they also have the highest rates of suicide of any of worlds indigenous peoples.

Then maybe it has more to do with factors other than casual/subtle racism?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'd love to know the framing of the question. If it is exactly as suggested, I think the racism is in how people perceived indigenous persons. That can depend on their own experiences and where they live.

If my perception of someone was dirty, drunk, possibly violent, based on limited experience, I wouldn't want to sit next to them either. However, this isn't based on their race. I'll move away from a white feral as quick as I would an indigenous one.

Would these people move away from an indigenous person dressed in a business suit? Probably not.

The racism is that they might automatically think of someone offensive when they think of indigenous people. Most of them probably have an indigenous person working at their workplace and don't give it a second thought, because that is their world.

 

[Norwood1878]

Then maybe it has more to do with factors other than casual/subtle racism?

Yes, absolutely. Extreme poverty and hopelessness were factors highlighted among others. I was responding to your question as to why Aboriginals receive additional help and recognition.

 

[L_W_P]

Yes, absolutely. Extreme poverty and hopelessness were factors highlighted. I was responding to your question as to why Aboriginals receive additional help and recognition.

Was talking more in relation to this specific campaign. Will edit my post to better reflect that.

 

[slicedndiced]

I'm not saying they aren't disadvantaged. I can totally understand the POV that Beyond Blue and the people behind this campaign are putting forward.

All I'm trying to understand is why indigenous people should get additional help/recognition in the campaign, above and beyond what people of other minorites are getting, based on their race?

Why not include people of all backgrounds?

Also all of the racists in this ad are white. The only exception being the shop keeper, who would be well within his right to be keeping an eye on anyone who entered his shop. This seems to push a very dangerous stereotype on white people that they are the major offenders when it comes to racism.

While I don't disagree on a personal level with the assumption this sort of assumption is, in and of itself, RACIST!

I don't buy this whole idea that when a specific group is targeted for help it is somehow reverse racism.

The whole notion is perverse and absurd.

If a specific group of people are in trouble, for whatever reason, a decent society has an obligation to help them out.

We certainly don't shy away from shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars to prop up certain industries that can't compete on the world stage, nor do we blink when we are asked to help overseas in the case of a natural disaster.

As stated, it is crystal clear that indigenous people, (mainly youth), have horrific, world leading, suicide rates and we have a responsibilty to address that by whatever means available.

I am probably in a unique position with having indigenous kids, widowed, and now married to a Vietnamese. So, I can say with some certainty, that suicide in general among Asian people is relatively rare, (with the exception of Japan), and culturally frowned upon. So attempting to paint this issue in broader terms is more than a little disingenuous.

The racism my wife receives here, pales into insignificance in comparison to what my children receive.

 

[L_W_P]

There's no such thing as 'reverse' racism, just racism in all its forms.

The biggest point I was trying to make is that I don't think that this campaign will have much of an effect on the kind of racism it's trying to bring attention too and that the major reason for my thinking is that it's presented as a very "White = Bad, Black = Mistreaded" point of view.

The cynic in me could even say that nothing in that ad is racist outside of the race based joke at the end.

Guy moves over so that there is room for a 3rd person in the middle if needed.
Shop keeper watches diligently over his store.
Young lady prefers to stand so there is a seat free for those who may need one.
Employer doesn't feel candidate meets requirements.

Nothing racist there.

Now I know that's not true, but that's a very easy impression for alot of people to take from watching that ad. It becomes "Just another Abo handout" and the racists keep on doing what they are doing.

The over-riding message is that racism can cause depression which can lead to suicide. So why not films 6-7 different 30 second spots to show different issues?

Show the young muslim girl being picked last in sport because she's wearing 'funny clothes'. Show a white guy working in a warehouse being picked on buy all the islanders that are twice his size. Show the teenage Sudanese boy trying to learn footy from a coach that talks to him like he's a toddler.

Absolutely you can put the focus on Indigenous people as part of a larger initiative. As it is though I feel it will only re-enforce the status quo and get many of the people committing these racist acts to scoff and think "Harden up" rather than putting themselves in that situation and realising how people can be offended by something as simple as refusing to sit next to them on a bus.

tl:dr - Love the idea, the execution is poor imo.

 

[scon]

I know this will sound condescending and I'll likely get picked on for it, but if our racism is just subtle then were are doing better than most of the Western world. Humanity is basically racist, we don't feel comfortable with people different to us being around us. People are quick to spot those obviously different to ourselves and we treat them different, often without even realising that we are doing it, it is just the way we are.

Clearly racism in Australia is not exclusively subtle so I wouldn't go thinking it's a reason to start self-congratulation.I enjoy the company of people from cultures other than my own(whiteboy) and don't believe for a second that humanity is basically racist.Even though plenty are doesn't make it innate.We're unthinking,we're immature we maintain deeply embedded unexamined prejudices and a host of other patterns of behaviour that see us operate in unfortunate and generally unproductive ways,but that don't make it part of human nature to be a racist.
Australia has a massive racist underbelly which I think is wasting away as we become more thoughtful,honest and reflexive both as individuals and as a culture.
PS I remember seeing that Brown Eyes Blue Eyes experiment 20 odd years ago-a ripper of a study.

 

[Norwood1878]

There's no such thing as 'reverse' racism, just racism in all its forms.

The biggest point I was trying to make is that I don't think that this campaign will have much of an effect on the kind of racism it's trying to bring attention too and that the major reason for my thinking is that it's presented as a very "White = Bad, Black = Mistreaded" point of view.

The cynic in me could even say that nothing in that ad is racist outside of the race based joke at the end.

Guy moves over so that there is room for a 3rd person in the middle if needed.
Shop keeper watches diligently over his store.
Young lady prefers to stand so there is a seat free for those who may need one.
Employer doesn't feel candidate meets requirements.

Nothing racist there.

Now I know that's not true, but that's a very easy impression for alot of people to take from watching that ad. It becomes "Just another Abo handout" and the racists keep on doing what they are doing.

The over-riding message is that racism can cause depression which can lead to suicide. So why not films 6-7 different 30 second spots to show different issues?

Show the young muslim girl being picked last in sport because she's wearing 'funny clothes'. Show a white guy working in a warehouse being picked on buy all the islanders that are twice his size. Show the teenage Sudanese boy trying to learn footy from a coach that talks to him like he's a toddler.

Absolutely you can put the focus on Indigenous people as part of a larger initiative. As it is though I feel it will only re-enforce the status quo and get many of the people committing these racist acts to scoff and think "Harden up" rather than putting themselves in that situation and realising how people can be offended by something as simple as refusing to sit next to them on a bus.

tl:dr - Love the idea, the execution is poor imo.

A broader look at discrimination and it's effect on others in all it's forms would be a worthy addendum to the campaign.

 

[Norwood1878]

To add to Janes Blue Eyed, Brown Eyed.

 

[Maggie5]

As the father of part aboriginal children, I have witnessed this on an almost daily basis. I have seen the distress that this subtle racism has on people.

I have raised the issue on this site before, only to be howled down by some.

Well, it appears that it is a fact afterall.

Cos, you know, to prove anything on the internet you have to provide a link to a study...

http://www.news.com.au/national/bey...m-and-depression/story-fncynjr2-1227004788393

Thank goodness I am one of the four that haven't moved. My next door neighbours are Aboriginal and we get on fine. I lend him my mower (and fuel can) as he stuffed his up by putting the wrong fuel in.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Thank goodness I am one of the four that haven't moved. My next door neighbours are Aboriginal and we get on fine. I lend him my mower (and fuel can) as he stuffed his up by putting the wrong fuel in.

Bet he was sniffing it as soon as you weren't looking.

 

[slicedndiced]

I'll just park this here.

hehehe, I just passed this on to my kids who knew of him already, (unbeknown to me), and adore his music and activism. They called me an old fart

Apparently the song, (which all of my kids labeled as EXACTLY what they face each day), was banned on Facebook for being "too offensive" WTF??

Thankfully it was re-instated and is now being used in schools and Uni's for training.

I'm now a hip-hop, (whatever it is called), fan.

Move over Warumpi Band.

 

[slicedndiced]

Bet he was sniffing it as soon as you weren't looking.

Lobs trolling hand grenade.

Firing mechanism failed.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Move over Warumpi Band.

* off, NOBODY beats Warumpi Band!