Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Easty]

North are 9-1 with Ben Brown in the side.

Now I know he's not the only factor that goes with that but he's straightened them up a lot. Think he's kicked 2 bags of 4 in that time too.

 

[Dav1d]

Ahem! bewildering/Insightful.

I apologize

I didn't want to make your head so big it fell off

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I wrote somewhere a few days ago , well before the Adelaide announcement , that history tells us if the coach loses the senior players he is all but gone. If there is smoke in the Bulldog camp as some people suspect , Macca is in trouble. If he makes it into next season my bet he has until the middle of the year to turn things around otherwise I can see him falling on his own sword.
Now MD are you feeling any better ?

Really, how many senior players do we have who would be that influential? Boyd? - heading into his last season. Minno? - knows full well he had a poor season. Morris? - can't imagine him rocking the boat, same with Murphy. Cooney? Not what he was so is not in a position to cause trouble. I sense Griffen is not entirely happy but again, not the kind of guy to make waves. I think discontent is more likely among the younger ones who have not yet cracked into regular senior spots and they have been told why. It's up to them to please the coach by working on their deficiencies, not act like princesses.

 

[Mr. Walker]

North are 9-1 with Ben Brown in the side.

Now I know he's not the only factor that goes with that but he's straightened them up a lot. Think he's kicked 2 bags of 4 in that time too.

I think the point the posters are making is that we had a choice, Brown or Fuller, and given our need we made a decision that is bewildering.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I think the point the posters are making is that we had a choice, Brown or Fuller, and given our need we made a decision that is bewildering.

We made a call. Hindsight is everything. If Fuller had turned out to be a gun, it wouldn't even be mentioned. If Brown, like most talls taken after 40, turned out to be a complete spud, it wouldn't be mentioned. It's all hypothetical crap.

 

[black pup]

Adelaide football club very keen to secure Cooney for next season.

 

[black pup]

Not if you watch 2 games of VFL football each week like I do, the choice was obvious, especially the situation we are in with talls who can play forward.
Fuller is slow, is too bloody small, and cannot find the football.
Believe me his drafting is a shocker, worse than Howard, and even worse than Jesse Wells who I happened to sponsor.
I hope they have the guts to admit their mistake, and get rid of him.

We made a call. Hindsight is everything. If Fuller had turned out to be a gun, it wouldn't even be mentioned. If Brown, like most talls taken after 40, turned out to be a complete spud, it wouldn't be mentioned. It's all hypothetical crap.

 

[TedDougChris]

We made a call. Hindsight is everything. If Fuller had turned out to be a gun, it wouldn't even be mentioned. If Brown, like most talls taken after 40, turned out to be a complete spud, it wouldn't be mentioned. It's all hypothetical crap.

Yes and no. You can certainly make the argument that given the dearth of KP options we have, we should try to select one each year (as a minimum) purely as a strategy to increase the likelihood that one will work out for us. I do agree with the hindsight issue - and at the end of next year Fuller may have been the better option as we're making a comparison off a very small data set - but for a club with such a shortage of KPP's - not drafting any more is an interesting and questionable strategy.... It gives us a 0 % chance of success with KPP recruitment.

Having said that, when there are 6 - 10 holes in our starting 22 - drafting for the best available talent can also be considered to be essential.

For mine - its too early to make a call one way or the other whether it's the right strategy (needs v best available) - but it's certainly worth having a discussion about (provided it doesnt turn into the usual bullshit arguments....)

 

[_Mike_]

Adelaide football club very keen to secure Cooney for next season.

Cooney's knee is shot. He's never going to get back to that level we saw and if he has currency (that we can get a trade out of) and wants to go, I'd let him go

 

[fargy]

Out of curiosity did anyone voice their concerns about Fuller when drafted/before the season? I know there were a few excited about his kicking but can't remember if anyone was really against drafting him?

 

[VitalDread]

Not sure if have said this,
but macca on saturday was so happy to break away from williamstown.
He hated how the players were being treated by the williamstown coaches, getting yelled out, played out of position and being taken off the ground for messing up.

 

[VitalDread]

Out of curiosity did anyone voice their concerns about Fuller when drafted/before the season? I know there were a few excited about his kicking but can't remember if anyone was really against drafting him?

I was happy we drafted Fuller, a good kick coming out of defensive is coming we needed shame injuries hit him hard.
might still be able to make it.

 

[cammo78]

Adelaide football club very keen to secure Cooney for next season.

They don't have a coach anymore.

Situation may well have changed

 

[Next Waiting]

They don't have a coach anymore.

Situation may well have changed

They've already filled their quota of disgruntled senior players?

 

[fronkalicious]

Adelaide football club very keen to secure Cooney for next season.

Hearing the love might be mutual.

Going to be a FASCINATING trade period for us. Don't discount the biggest shake up of the list we've seen.

McCartney is safe though. Take it to the bank.

Who do we want to replace Shannon grant?

 

[fronkalicious]

I wrote somewhere a few days ago , well before the Adelaide announcement , that history tells us if the coach loses the senior players he is all but gone. If there is smoke in the Bulldog camp as some people suspect , Macca is in trouble. If he makes it into next season my bet he has until the middle of the year to turn things around otherwise I can see him falling on his own sword.
Now MD are you feeling any better ?

Disagree with this King. Like it or not, the club understands next year is another development year and McCartney has full support on this. I think you'll find the senior players that won't tow the line exit stage left before the coach does.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Agree with fronk, meant to post something similar beforehand.

The coach has the floor. All of our senior players, Griffen excepted, are on the way out, and the club's not going to sacrifice it's long term vision because they're not buying in.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Yes and no. You can certainly make the argument that given the dearth of KP options we have, we should try to select one each year (as a minimum) purely as a strategy to increase the likelihood that one will work out for us. I do agree with the hindsight issue - and at the end of next year Fuller may have been the better option as we're making a comparison off a very small data set - but for a club with such a shortage of KPP's - not drafting any more is an interesting and questionable strategy.... It gives us a 0 % chance of success with KPP recruitment.

Having said that, when there are 6 - 10 holes in our starting 22 - drafting for the best available talent can also be considered to be essential.

For mine - its too early to make a call one way or the other whether it's the right strategy (needs v best available) - but it's certainly worth having a discussion about (provided it doesnt turn into the usual bullshit arguments....)

I don't disagree that we have a lack of KPP, how could you, but we also have supporters screaming blue murder that we have no kickers off half back, so we recruit to address that and it doesn't work. We have a history of recruiting talls late in the draft who end up being spuds, so it stands to reason that the risk in recruiting late in the draft isn't limited to needs, the risk is spread across all players and selections. Just pick players who you think will make you better, regardless of needs, late in the draft. If they're tall, so be it, but I'm not stressed about the success rate or otherwise of players selected after 40. I am, however, keen to maximise the returns we get out of our top 10 picks, because they are the players who will drive the (hopeful) success we see in the short to medium term.

 

[yebiga]

If memory serves, most of the hard core big footy posters were bemused by the fuller selection. However, we were surprised at our luck in getting Honeychurch so late and given the quality of selections the previous draft with stringer, Macrae etcetera, the bigfooty elders were not as critical as they perhaps otherwise may have been of the fuller selection.

 

[Ridley This]

Out of curiosity did anyone voice their concerns about Fuller when drafted/before the season? I know there were a few excited about his kicking but can't remember if anyone was really against drafting him?

I raised a similar question a few months ago, before Brown burst on the scene. Both were speculative, although from memory a number of people around draft day voiced calls to go tall long-shoot over small long-shoot.

I guess, as an extension you could call in to question the similar "moneyball" selection of Fuller. Seems pretty early to put a line through him though.
Out of interest, who do people think we should have picked instead?

3 42 Western Bulldogs Matthew Fuller Western Bulldogs 0
3 43 West Coast Tom Barrass West Coast 0
3 44 Sydney Aliir Aliir Sydney 0
3 45 Port Adelaide Mitchell Harvey Port Adelaide 0
3 46 Adelaide Riley Knight Adelaide 0
3 47 North Melbourne Ben Brown North Melbourne 0
3 48 GWS PASS
3 49 West Coast Dylan Main West Coast 0
3 50 Richmond Nathan Gordon Richmond 5
3 51 Carlton Nick Holman Carlton 0
3 52 Port Adelaide Darcy Byrne-Jones Port Adelaide 0
3 53 Sydney PASS
3 54 Geelong Joshua Walker Geelong 2
3 55 Essendon Orazio Fantasia Essendon 0
3 56 Hawthorn James Sicily Hawthorn 0
4 57 Melbourne Jayden Hunt Melbourne 0
4 58 Fremantle Brady Grey Fremantle 0
4 59 Hawthorn Jonathon Ceglar Hawthorn 5
4 60 Western Bulldogs Mitch Honeychurch Western Bulldogs 0


Personally, I would have gone Ben Brown (22yo ruckmen), who were also linked to.
Or James Sicily from the Western Jets, because I like cut of him.
Honeychurch is actually one of the better prospects on that list. Would people be upset if we had him at 42?

End of next season is probably a more reasonable time to make some judgement. Brown could be a flash in the pan tall playing in side with momentum (by no means the first case of this). However, if Fuller can't crack the senior side by next year, due to injury or form, then questions need to be asked. When it comes to clutch calls, people in pro sport generally don't get to fall back on 'bad luck'.

 

[Easty]

Not sure if have said this,
but macca on saturday was so happy to break away from williamstown.
He hated how the players were being treated by the williamstown coaches, getting yelled out, played out of position and being taken off the ground for messing up.

I can't be bothered digging up my post but I heard that we'll before any official announcements were made after overhearing a phone conversation at Willy.

I still claim that I broke the story as the first article I saw about it was eerily similar to what my post said.

 

[Dry Rot]

Hearing the love might be mutual.

Going to be a FASCINATING trade period for us. Don't discount the biggest shake up of the list we've seen.

Interesting re Cooney. What is a one-kneeed Cooney worth?

We might end up having quite a few second round picks: Higgins compo, Cooney, Jones, Wood, Minson....

 

[immortalmike]

North are 9-1 with Ben Brown in the side.

Now I know he's not the only factor that goes with that but he's straightened them up a lot. Think he's kicked 2 bags of 4 in that time too.

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

 

[fronkalicious]

Interesting re Cooney. What is a one-kneeed Cooney worth?

We might end up having quite a few second round picks: Higgins compo, Cooney, Jones, Wood, Minson....

Pick in the 40s and maybe a small upgrade for us somewhere else I reckon

 

[grassman75]

Before the season Fuller was one of the top bargain Supercoach buys. Surely that wasn't based off the fact he was cheap. The guys and gals who create the game were confident he would play and score enough points to increase his value. I haven't seen him play much, he was injured and the adjustment to a different league. I'm prepared to give him another year before cracking it