Can pretty much guarantee they wouldn't have had the conflict they are having now, without the underground resources in the Donbass.
Ukraine on verge of civil war?
- Thread starter medusala
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Think the Western propaganda is obvious? Many Germans do, too.
- Jan 13, 2001
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On today's basis they would grant it, what the Ukraine economy is like by then might well make them think twice.
http://rt.com/news/191968-ukraine-politician-beaten-crowd/
hufrych was going to make a statement to the media alongside members of the opposition, as part of a political campaign preceding the October 26 parliamentary election. The event was first organized in an office, but was later relocated to the building of the regional administration.
The MP explained that he had known about the pre-planned action, which was aimed at “repeating the performance with garbage cans and green disinfectant.” However, he said there was no way the “activists” could force him into that.
“They wanted to put me in a waste container, but the only way they could do it would be over my dead body,” he said, recalling the case of Vitaly Zhuravsky, another prominent Party of Regions member.
READ MORE: Protesters dump Ukrainian deputy in rubbish bin (PHOTO, VIDEO)
A group of about 30 people cornered Shufrych in the building, along with Nikolay Skoryk, ex-chairman of the regional administration. Saying they needed to “ask him a few questions,” people wearing masks and camouflage rushed Shufrych out into the street, where they beat him up.
According to the politician, around 100 people gathered to support him, and “nearly the same amount of people were on the side of the Right Sector and this so-called self-defense, as we were told.”
Reuters / Valentyn Ogirenko
Shufrych’s bodyguards fired in the air to disperse the angry crowd, with no success. They then managed to drag him out of the scuffle and hurled him inside a van which immediately left the premises.
Police reportedly did not immediately respond to the violence, despite being in the area.
Speaking to the press from the hospital, Shufrych promised to return to Odessa.
“Believe me, soon we will put an end to this lawlessness. And we will do all we can to clear the city from these evil spirits,” he said.
READ MORE: Remember Odessa: Protesters across Europe recall May 2 massacre
Over 40 people were killed in Odessa in May after becoming trapped the Trade Unions House which was set on fire. Radicals – who are believed to be largely responsible for the tragedy – have placed the blame on the Ukrainian MP.
Following the incident, Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov expressed concern that Europe and the US might turn away from the Kiev government due to intensified attacks on members of parliament by Right Sector radicals.
A few more assaults and “Europe will turn away from our victorious revolution. I am afraid the US will too,” Avakov said on his Facebook page. He also urged people to uphold the law and turn away from the opinions of radicals.
hufrych was going to make a statement to the media alongside members of the opposition, as part of a political campaign preceding the October 26 parliamentary election. The event was first organized in an office, but was later relocated to the building of the regional administration.
The MP explained that he had known about the pre-planned action, which was aimed at “repeating the performance with garbage cans and green disinfectant.” However, he said there was no way the “activists” could force him into that.
“They wanted to put me in a waste container, but the only way they could do it would be over my dead body,” he said, recalling the case of Vitaly Zhuravsky, another prominent Party of Regions member.
READ MORE: Protesters dump Ukrainian deputy in rubbish bin (PHOTO, VIDEO)
A group of about 30 people cornered Shufrych in the building, along with Nikolay Skoryk, ex-chairman of the regional administration. Saying they needed to “ask him a few questions,” people wearing masks and camouflage rushed Shufrych out into the street, where they beat him up.
According to the politician, around 100 people gathered to support him, and “nearly the same amount of people were on the side of the Right Sector and this so-called self-defense, as we were told.”
Reuters / Valentyn Ogirenko
Shufrych’s bodyguards fired in the air to disperse the angry crowd, with no success. They then managed to drag him out of the scuffle and hurled him inside a van which immediately left the premises.
Police reportedly did not immediately respond to the violence, despite being in the area.
Speaking to the press from the hospital, Shufrych promised to return to Odessa.
“Believe me, soon we will put an end to this lawlessness. And we will do all we can to clear the city from these evil spirits,” he said.
READ MORE: Remember Odessa: Protesters across Europe recall May 2 massacre
Over 40 people were killed in Odessa in May after becoming trapped the Trade Unions House which was set on fire. Radicals – who are believed to be largely responsible for the tragedy – have placed the blame on the Ukrainian MP.
Following the incident, Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov expressed concern that Europe and the US might turn away from the Kiev government due to intensified attacks on members of parliament by Right Sector radicals.
A few more assaults and “Europe will turn away from our victorious revolution. I am afraid the US will too,” Avakov said on his Facebook page. He also urged people to uphold the law and turn away from the opinions of radicals.
- Jan 13, 2001
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I've been maintaining for some time now that the Ukraine government is targeting innocent civilians and refusing to take action against those who attack anti-government sympathisers. The Ukraine government is still an illegal government that has not been fully elected and stands in a parliament where the disputed terrotories are not represented, but this doesn't stop the West from supporting them. NATO is using the Ukraine situation to try and curb Russia's re-emergence as a powerful player on the international scene, they are already losing out to China and if Russia was again allowed to regain much of the influence that the USSR once had it would make life very difficult for USA-Europe companies to pillage developing countries wealth.
Like I have said politics in Ukraine is different to all but the most brutal nations in the world, and the ones in power now are only "better" in that they are west friendly. Not worse necessarily mind you either. However the rise of the violent right sector and other Nazi's is a very bad development, and the near total destruction of the East and the thousands of lost lives could have been avoided if democracy had been supported but allowed to take place in good time.
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Agree. Honestly the best thing that can happen for Ukraine is to split, it is not, has not and never will be a united country.
Agree, with mass graves now being found on the sites of nation guard positions, its hard to see how it can remain one nation.
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Still willing to bet that the USA and NATO don't apolgise the Russia and say that they were right, instead you'll find that sanctions get quietly rolled back instead.
- Dec 22, 2009
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You guys love lapping up Russian propaganda. Ask the typical Ukranian and they'll tell you how it is - Russia is in it for themselves and are not welcome in Ukraine. The Ukranian government is not illegal, it is the same government who have removed and replaced their leader. Which you will find is perfectly legal. To call the right sector violent is ridiculous with all of the violent civil unrest the Russians are sponsoring. And the notion of them being Nazis is 100% Russian propaganda. Say that to a Ukranian and they'll tear your head off.
Freo2012
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You fail to realize that there are 2 distinct majority ethnic groups in Ukraine - your friends and contacts are probably western Ukrainians. The East is predominantly Russian extraction, speaking and very much unified with Russia. As others have said Ukraine has never and will never work with these 2 very distinct groups - its not disimilar to some of the problems that face African countries - borders make no sense given the demographics.
The ONLY solution is for a split in Ukraine that represents the very distinct demographics and cultures.
- Dec 22, 2009
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Rubbish. Up until Ukraine decided to pursue closer ties with western democracies there wasn't a problem with ethnic Russians & Ukranians living together. All of the issues are caused by Russia stirring up trouble once Putin's puppet master was legally removed and will disappear once Russia pisses off out of Ukraine for good. Anyone that thinks life is so good is also free to make the short trip over the border and live in Russia themselves. As much as Russia wants it to be split Ukraine will never be split and won't give in to Russian homogeny. Russia hasn't done Ukraine any favours in years and you'll be hard pressed to find a genuine Ukrainian anywhere protesting about how much they want to live under Russian rule.
Freo2012
Premiership Player
LOL - you should try to not be so one dimensional - life and reality is everything but one dimensional - try opening your eyes and exploring both sides to a story rather than being a puppet
The West is not 100% perfect and the East and Russia 100% bad - open your eyes and use some intelligence and then you may be able to come to some logical, insightful and wise conclusions. Wisdom doesn't come from being fed what to believe but from experiencing, investigating and exploring for yourself.
- Dec 22, 2009
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I'm fully aware of that and have said previously that the Ukranian government should still maintain relations with Russia even after becoming a western style democracy.
What I am in no doubt about is all of the issues at the moment in Eastern Ukraine are purely as a result of Russia trying to unsettle the country in an attempt to maintain control of it. That for me is indefensible. Putin needs to stop acting like a child who can't play with his favourite toy and start looking to maintain a peaceful relationship with Ukraine.
This is not an East vs West battle - this is a battle between the everyday ukranian wanting to break free from the shackles of Russia and increase their standard of living. If it is such a bad thing then I'm sure a pro Russian party will be elected into power convincingly and the country will come begging to the Russians.
Resorting to violence would be a Nazi thing to do.
Of course they aren't all Nazis but even 150000 nazis is a lot, particularly when armed and sent to enemy country.
And Yanukovich was the Party of Regions leader, while the party's with the more power now def seem to be Yats and Tymoshenko's 'Fatherland" party and Svoboda plus Poroshenko as pres. The right sector is violent- they film it themselves, they are violent and proud. The anti- maidan claims which are a bit extreme and are anecdotal claim they gouged out eyes and cut off fingers... and then murdered... But its pretty hard to fake branding. Which is also seen.
Can I just ask this , do you work for the government or a foreign government, or are you just truly convinced by western media or do you find Russian media so repulsive that you are against Russia due to this?
He has Ukrainian expat friends
- Dec 22, 2009
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Fair questions mate. Got expat friends from Kharkiv. They even invited me to one of their anti Russian protests which you would have seen on the news.
I form my views by looking at actions and events from various news sources. I'll generally look into news articles and/or reports to decide if they are bs or not.
I have absolutely zero % doubt that the insurgency and instability in E Ukraine is the work of the Russians. Their motivation? Retain a stranglehold over Ukraine and it's resources. They don't give a damn about anyone in the Ukraine.
But the thing is many Russian people do care about the Ukraine and they have been incredibly generous in taking in 800,000 refugees and risking more economic hardship on themselves by providing the Ukrainian people with humanitarian aid when the west only halted its progress. Putin is a populist, and what was happening in Ukrain obviously disgusted the vast majority of Russians, so true to his style and his agenda he became involved. Crimea was absorbed without a shot in anger, which is a nice change from western style regime change which almost always sees thousands of casualties. I guess the East saw that and hoped they could be absorbed too, as this would be a better result for the areas of Lugansk and Donetsk.
I look at news from around the world also, and in many countries the west is viewed with a lot of disdain and mistrust.
Ukraine is itself a nation that was mostly formed by Russia gifting it territory. Lenin, Stalin and Kruschev all increased its borders significantly. Truth is grey not black or white, you be black I'll be white.
Ukraine 1793 - 1914
Ukraine at the end of WW1
More of the Ukrainian jigsaw
What the 'nationalism map' might look like today
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They did for quite a few years, until the debate about who to align with Russia or the EU lead to the democratically elected government being overthrown and the new government recognised immediately by the West despite having no legitimate authority to govern, seems quite a few people forget this fact.
Like I and others have said, the only solution here is to split Ukraine, where ethnic tensions exist and will continue to exist for the forseeable future there is no point in continuing with a system that just won't work.
- Dec 22, 2009
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Once again it wasn't overthrown. Yanukovych was removed as leader because he was blatantly and openly corrupt and in the palm of Putin.
And once again there was no problems in Ukraine until the Russians started sticking their noses in because they were upset their puppet was removed as leader of the country. Solution? How about Russia piss off where they aren't wanted. They are the sole cause of tensions and civil war.
And once again there was no problems in Ukraine until the Russians started sticking their noses in because they were upset their puppet was removed as leader of the country. Solution? How about Russia piss off where they aren't wanted. They are the sole cause of tensions and civil war.
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WorldCup2022OZ What do you make of Victoria Nuland's recorded phone conversation where she discusses installing Yatsenyuk as a puppet? Or Ermas Paet's claims that the snipers were shooting people from both sides? Or CIA director John Brennan being caught in Kiev?
Are you seriously just going to ignore all of this evidence?
Are you seriously just going to ignore all of this evidence?
An interesting article on the state of affairs on the pro-Kiev side - and potential trouble brewing between the official Ukrainian armed forces, pro-Kiev private armies paid for by business tychoons and the pro-Kiev 'volunteer battalions'.
http://pando.com/2014/09/25/refugee...patriots-heading-into-the-ukrainian-war-zone/
http://pando.com/2014/09/25/refugee...patriots-heading-into-the-ukrainian-war-zone/
Actually there was no evidence that Yanukovych was particularly a Russian puppet. He was corrupt- as are all Ukrainian politicians.
The financial deal offered by Russia was better than that offered by the EU but of course didn't have the implied possibility of maybe joining the EU (which won't happen. Ukraine is an economic basketcase).
