Society/Culture Forcing a Minor to Undergo Chemo Against Their Will

PACatter · Jan 10, 2015

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...-force-a-teenage-girl-to-undergo-chemotherapy

Brings up a number of questions:
1) Can the state tell a minor what they can do with their body?
2) Should the state step in to prevent an ill-informed decision an adult makes for their child?
3) Why aren't people who do not believe in scientifically proven treatment of an illness treated with the same derision as climate-change deniers?

The Libertarian in me says to let her skip treatment and die. The humanitarian says she needs to be taken from her ignorant mother and offered a better life.

telsor · Jan 10, 2015

I read something on this the other day.

I can understand minors not having the final say, but as her mother is also supportive of her daughters decision I can't understand the problem.

Also worth noting that the 'minor' in question is 17.

clogged · Jan 10, 2015

She should murder someone. Then she'd get treated as an adult in court.

little graham · Jan 10, 2015

PACatter said:
The Libertarian in me says to let her skip treatment and die. The humanitarian says she needs to be taken from her ignorant mother and offered a better life.

You sound confident that chemo is the only answer, it's not.

PACatter · Jan 11, 2015

little graham said:
You sound confident that chemo is the only answer, it's not.

You sound confident that you have her entire diagnosis in front of you and you know better than the doctors that recommended this move forward.

Do tell.

little graham · Jan 11, 2015

PACatter said:
Do tell.

Well, having supported and cared for someone all the way to the end, who chose not to have chemotherapy, I think i have an understanding of why she has chosen to do what she has done.

CountryRace · Jan 11, 2015

What about taking ganja away from a two year old girl that has violent painful attacks unless she has some herbs?

chemo kills ya
ganja save ya

just what the legality is

what a world

CountryRace · Jan 11, 2015

btw anyone who has family with cancer look into cannabis oil

magical

weed is one of the 'big' famous medicines of ancient chinese culture for a reason it cant all be hocus pocus

little graham · Jan 11, 2015

CountryRace said:
weed is one of the 'big' famous medicines of ancient chinese culture for a reason it cant all be hocus pocus

Interesting story.

PACatter · Jan 12, 2015

little graham said:
Well, having supported and cared for someone all the way to the end, who chose not to have chemotherapy, I think i have an understanding of why she has chosen to do what she has done.

Sorry for your loss, but I come from the other side of it - having family that is happy, healthy, and most importantly, still alive because they chose to follow the doctors directions in having their lymphoma treated. So I do not have an understanding why she chooses to go against the doctor's suggestions.

telsor said:
I read something on this the other day.

I can understand minors not having the final say, but as her mother is also supportive of her daughters decision I can't understand the problem.

Also worth noting that the 'minor' in question is 17.

This brings up the arbitrary decision of what makes a minor. In a few months, when she turns 18, she can discontinue treatment and there is nothing the state can do about it. So why bother?

Frankly, I wouldn't consider that I was mature enough to make a life-and-death decision like this until I was 20 or 21.

CountryRace · Jan 12, 2015

PACatter said:
Sorry for your loss, but I come from the other side of it - having family that is happy, healthy, and most importantly, still alive because they chose to follow the doctors directions in having their lymphoma treated. So I do not have an understanding why she chooses to go against the doctor's suggestions..

There are many doctors that get cancer that refuse chemo ...

little graham · Jan 12, 2015

Statistics on the success of chemo are skewed. They class it as a success if you die from chemo and not from the cancer. They do this because it helps sell thier therapy, if they can provide high survival rates. i think its 2 years after diagnoses, statistically you become a success, even though you might be in a coma from the blood cots chemo gave you.

More and more Australian are finding their way to places like in Germany who use hemp oil and are successfully treating lung cancers that australian oncologists said chemo could only slow down.

Run n Spread · Jan 12, 2015

PACatter said:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...-force-a-teenage-girl-to-undergo-chemotherapy

Brings up a number of questions:
1) Can the state tell a minor what they can do with their body?
2) Should the state step in to prevent an ill-informed decision an adult makes for their child?
3) Why aren't people who do not believe in scientifically proven treatment of an illness treated with the same derision as climate-change deniers?

The Libertarian in me says to let her skip treatment and die. The humanitarian says she needs to be taken from her ignorant mother and offered a better life.

1) No, but in certain circumstances they do. i.e. Alcohol is illegal as is ice due to the harm it can do to growing bodies. So a free for all is not practical.

2) Yes. If you have a situation of teenage alcoholism, other avenues of harm the state can and does step in.

3) Because society is indcotrinated in certain things and people rarely think for themselves.

However in this case the minor is dead on the money imo. Chemo is absolute bulls^%, dangerous and has a low strike rate, no better than the 60s when it was first being used. The fact drug companies can have such a say in medical treatment, when they in essence depend on the sick is mind boggling. For the amount of money that goes to cancer research the outpit is negligible. The same treatment as the 70s are still used. Don't get me wrong if I ever cop an infection, disease or need surgery then Western Medicine is the first place I'd head. But cancer, obesity, diabetes or anything to do with the self regulation of the body or immune system forget it. The treatment success rate is shocking.

little graham said:
Statistics on the success of chemo are skewed. They class it as a success if you die from chemo and not from the cancer. They do this because it helps sell thier therapy, if they can provide high survival rates. i think its 2 years after diagnoses, statistically you become a success, even though you might be in a coma from the blood cots chemo gave you.

More and more Australian are finding their way to places like in Germany who use hemp oil and are successfully treating lung cancers that australian oncologists said chemo could only slow down.

Bang on. They are miles ahead. The fact that hemp is illegal when it is the ultimate renewable (not necessarily talking the marijuana effect) shows how backward we are.

little graham · Jan 12, 2015

Run n Spread said:
Bang on. They aremiles ahead. The fact that hemp is illegal when it is the ultimate renewable (not necessarily talking the marijuana effect) shows how backward we are.

To me it shows how corrupt pharmaceuticals are and is just one of many examples they are only interest in profit/repeat business. It shows how corrupt our politicians are, maybe how powerless they're to these billion dollar companies?

Belnakor · Jan 15, 2015

little graham said:
More and more Australian are finding their way to places like in Germany who use hemp oil and are successfully treating lung cancers that australian oncologists said chemo could only slow down.

source? sounds like complete nonsense - not unlike everything else you post.

CountryRace · Jan 15, 2015

Belnakor said:
source? sounds like complete nonsense - not unlike everything else you post.

Belnakor · Jan 15, 2015

all those extracts talk about how it is a novel treatment that may/could be useful. that is hardly the silver bullet Little Graham is talking about.

Belnakor · Jan 15, 2015

CountryRace said:
There are many doctors that get cancer that refuse chemo ...

"many" is such a solid term isn't it.

Bomberboyokay · Jan 15, 2015

"This is not about death," Fortin says. "My daughter is not going to die. This is about, 'This is my body, my choice, and let me decide.' " makes me think the 17yo's mum has filled her daughter's head with bullshit and that's why she doesn't want treatment, not because of a clear-headed assessment of what the doctors have told her aka do this or you're ****ed.

So in this case the court made the right decision.

CountryRace · Jan 15, 2015

Belnakor said:
"many" is such a solid term isn't it.

75%

little graham · Jan 16, 2015

Why shouldn't Doctors lie when the entire cancer industry is one gigantic fabrication from start to finish? Is it any wonder that cancer societies worldwide put a far greater financial initiative on chemotherapy and radiation research than disease prevention techniques? Preventing disease doesn't make money, but treating disease certainly does.

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/401...sing-healthy-people-with-cancer-to-make-money

Were his patients shocked? You bet they were. Who would ever suspect a Doctor of faking a diagnosis to collect money. It's unconscionable. Yet it happens with cancer and almost every disease that medical doctors can generate income through kickbacks and commissions based on the volume of patients treated with specific pharmaceuticals. Like anything people are used as a comodity.

CountryRace · Jan 16, 2015

Belnakor said:
all those extracts talk about how it is a novel treatment that may/could be useful. that is hardly the silver bullet Little Graham is talking about.

there seems to be numerous stories where weed oil has in fact 'cured cancer' ...

http://www.cureyourowncancer.org/how-cannabis-oil-works.html

PACatter · Jan 16, 2015

CountryRace said:
75%

Quoting Natural News for "facts" is just about the bottom of the barrel.

Also, almost every citation you provided talks about how Cannabis may help ease the cancer in mice for a variety of cancers (although I note that Hodgkins Lymphoma - the cancer in question - is nowhere in any of those studies, so congrats on missing the point of the article).

CountryRace said:
there seems to be numerous stories where weed oil has in fact 'cured cancer' ...

http://www.cureyourowncancer.org/how-cannabis-oil-works.html

There are also numerous stories where doing nothing at all has in fact 'cured cancer'.

But there are more numerous facts stating that chemo is the treatment that will present this specific person with this specific cancer with the best percentage opportunity to survive.

I'm all for legalization, but folks like you make me happy it hasn't happened yet. Get off the crusade and look at the facts of the case being discussed.

PACatter · Jan 16, 2015

little graham said:
Statistics on the success of chemo are skewed. They class it as a success if you die from chemo and not from the cancer. They do this because it helps sell thier therapy, if they can provide high survival rates. i think its 2 years after diagnoses, statistically you become a success, even though you might be in a coma from the blood cots chemo gave you.

Also, funny enough, the same standards that are used for weighing success/failure in studies of all other treatments.

BBBBBUT BIG PHARMA! MONEY!

little graham said:
More and more Australian are finding their way to places like in Germany who use hemp oil and are successfully treating lung cancers that australian oncologists said chemo could only slow down.

Hey, hemp oil is legal in the U.S., any guesses why it is still not accepted as a proper treatment for cancer? Most likely because there is no hard evidence that proves it, just claims and stories. Also, cannabis oil? Just as big a money maker as chemo, so if you want to use "money making" as a reason why chemo is chosen, sorry, doesn't fly.

I get the whole idea of fightin' the man, I was like that for years, but after a while you just sound like a flog.

CountryRace · Jan 16, 2015

search; 'Hodgkin's Lymphoma cancer cannabis oil', my friend.

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