why aren't Fitzroy's premierships considered part of Brisbane Lions history?

[Reality Check!]

This is the most infuriating aspect about the premiership tally that really triggers me. What the heck was the point of the merger if you can't take both club's records and history with you? Why the hell do 'the bloods' talk about their premierships won 100 years ago and consider them apart of Sydney's history, if you can't do the same with Brisbane?

b-b-but South Melbourne relocated, Fitzroy Lions and Brisbane Bears became a new club

This is the most ******* argument I have ever heard. The fact is South Melbourne would have merged with Sydney if they already had a pre-existing club. It was just convenient for them that there was no existing Sydney team and the VFL wanted to make one. There is "literally" zero difference between the league shutting down South Melbourne and Fitzroy in order to relocate them up north.

 

[JD11]

Because Fitzroy is in the North and South Melbourne is in the South.

This is how Melbourne works. It is a city divided.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Maybe the Fitzroy people wanted their club's history to stand separate.

 

[Roysforever]

This is the most infuriating aspect about the premiership tally that really triggers me. What the **** was the point of the merger if you can't take both club's records and history with you? Why the hell do 'the bloods' talk about their premierships won 100 years ago and consider them apart of Sydney's history, if you can't do the same with Brisbane?



This is the most ******* argument I have ever heard. The fact is South Melbourne would have merged with Sydney if they already had a pre-existing club. It was just convenient for them that there was no existing Sydney team and the VFL wanted to make one. There is "literally" zero difference between the league shutting down South Melbourne and Fitzroy in order to relocate them up north.

If you head across to the Fitzroy board and learn the background of Fitzroy's history and the pathway towards the merger you may have your answer.

 

[Colonial]

I really cant see why they would include them. In the nrl the wests tigers dont incl balmain or the magpies prems.
Stgeorge illawarra do but that was a takeover of the steelers.

 

[Bluelegs]

I really enjoy that quote in the OP.

 

[Augustine]

In before Roylion

 

[Kram]

Because it's a totally different club, Brisbane just absorbed them in a takeover

 

[wally funk]

I think the the fact that South relocated (and to this day remains the same team) and Fitzroy and Brisbane merged into one is a pretty reasonable argument as to why their histories are different, even if it makes me a stupid campaigner. As for the second part of the OP, would South have been swallowed up by a pre-existing Sydney team if there already was one? Could be an interesting discussion for another thread there...

 

[krisholio14]

Fitzroy still exist in their own right. They've taken their flags with them and rightly so.

 

[Roylion]

This is the most infuriating aspect about the premiership tally that really triggers me. What the **** was the point of the merger if you can't take both club's records and history with you? Why the hell do 'the bloods' talk about their premierships won 100 years ago and consider them apart of Sydney's history, if you can't do the same with Brisbane?.

Really? Do I have to explain it yet again?

 

[HTPunter]

Really? Do I have to explain it yet again?

While your signature explains it, I don't think you can get too worked up because people don't know all of your posts. Reading your posting history or knowing the history of Fitzroy isn't a requirement to become a member of Bigfooty.

 

[Heaps of fun]

In before Roylion

This just isn't true.

 

[Roysforever]

While your signature explains it, I don't think you can get too worked up because people don't know all of your posts. Reading your posting history or knowing the history of Fitzroy isn't a requirement to become a member of Bigfooty.

For those ignorant of Fitzroy history having the board on this website is such a welcome platform to keep educating people. I continually encourage and recommend people to head across and get informed. Roylion is an absolute star for his concerted efforts in spreading the name and true history of Fitzroy.

 

[Roylion]

While your signature explains it, I don't think you can get too worked up because people don't know all of your posts. Reading your posting history or knowing the history of Fitzroy isn't a requirement to become a member of Bigfooty.

I'm not suggesting taking a look through my posting history.

As has been suggested already, what about taking a look at the Fitzroy board for a start, if one is genuinely interested in knowing the answer? That's one reason why it exists. There's a number of stickied posts there explaining it.

 

[Roylion]

I continually encourage and recommend people to head across and get informed.

Roylion is an absolute star for his concerted efforts in spreading the name and true history of Fitzroy.

Well thanks Roysforever. Even I get sick of repeating myself sometimes.

And by the odd comment, so do others. So read the Fitzroy board.

Happy to answer questions, if there are any.

 

[The King!]

Wish they could un merge them and just bring the lions back

 

[Roylion]

Wish they could un merge them and just bring the lions back

There was no 'merger' despite the AFL's use of the term. So they are already "unmerged"

 

[The King!]

There was no 'merger' despite the AFL's use of the term. So they are already "unmerged"

Sorry didnt mean to be disrespectful and word it wrong

Just wish they were running around in the AFL

 

[Reality Check!]

So I just popped over to the Fitzroy board and found this little piece of information in the merger contract:

7. MERGER ARRANGEMENTS


7.1 Transfer of Fitzroy's Assets
In consideration of the payments to be made under clause 4.2:


a) after the end of the 1996 Season and on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will cease its Fitzroy Operations, terminate the membership of its Appointee of AFL (appointed pursuant to AFL's constitutent documents and surrender its AFL Licence and release AFL from all claims connected with its AFL Licence and such termniation and surrender; and


b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).

Seems as though there are 8 assets still missing in Brisbane's premiership cabinet.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The Brisbane Lions effectively 'took over' the Fitzroy Lions identity....It stands to reason then, that they ought also to have adopted their history!

Same Guernsey, same club insignia, same Identity ....Just a different City is all!

 

[The King!]

So I just popped over to the Fitzroy board and found this little piece of information in the merger contract:

7. MERGER ARRANGEMENTS


7.1 Transfer of Fitzroy's Assets
In consideration of the payments to be made under clause 4.2:


a) after the end of the 1996 Season and on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will cease its Fitzroy Operations, terminate the membership of its Appointee of AFL (appointed pursuant to AFL's constitutent documents and surrender its AFL Licence and release AFL from all claims connected with its AFL Licence and such termniation and surrender; and


b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).

Seems as though there are 8 assets still missing in Brisbane's premiership cabinet.

Wheres the home games and guernsey as promised though

 

[Scotland]

Cliffs: Fitzroy still exist, they just play in the VAFA rather than the VFL. The merged entity simply 'represents the Fitzroy identity in the AFL'.

It's a bit tenuous for mine and smacks of having an each way bet. It's either a merged entity or it isn't.

If it is, then one party doesn't get to just choose to exist in its own right after the merger. If it isn't, then Brisbane can wear whatever jumper they like, use whatever emblem they like, the AFL can schedule Brisbane away games wherever they like etc. After all, it's 'just a re-branding'.

 

[Bell End]

I remember after the merger that the honor boards in the old bears social club at the gabba had all Fitzroy b&f, Brownlow & premierships listed on it.

 

[Roylion]

So I just popped over to the Fitzroy board and found this little piece of information in the merger contract:

7. MERGER ARRANGEMENTS


7.1 Transfer of Fitzroy's Assets
In consideration of the payments to be made under clause 4.2:


a) after the end of the 1996 Season and on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will cease its Fitzroy Operations, terminate the membership of its Appointee of AFL (appointed pursuant to AFL's constitutent documents and surrender its AFL Licence and release AFL from all claims connected with its AFL Licence and such termniation and surrender; and


b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).

Seems as though there are 8 assets still missing in Brisbane's premiership cabinet.

Since about 2006, the Brisbane Lions commissioned eight VFL premiership cups, which they have possession of. However the premierships belong to Fitzroy. Hence the Lions have three premierships..not 11. Even the AFL recognises this.

The Deed of Arrangement also states

Definitions (page 5)

"Merged Club" means Brisbane Bears which will conduct the combined Club Operations of Fitzroy and Brisbane Bears following the Merger;

2. ARRANGEMENTS (page 6)

Except as provided in this Deed, nothing in this Deed will be construed or interpreted to mean that Brisbane Bears will assume any liability for the debts or obligations of Fitzroy or that the Brisbane Bears will have any input in the ongoing management of Fitzroy after the Merger Date.

This indicates that the Fitzroy Football Club continued on in its own right.

Then there was the following:

6. BRISBANE BEARS' CHANGE OF NAME (page 10)
Brisbane Bears shall arrange for a general meeting to be held at which a special resolution will be proposed to change the company name of Brisbane Bears to Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited and Brisbane Bears shall use its best endeavours to obtain such approval.

(page 10)
after the end of the 1996 Season and on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will cease its Fitzroy Operations, terminate the membership of its Appointee of AFL (appointed pursuant to AFL's constituent documents and surrender its AFL Licenceand release AFL from all claims connected with its AFL Licence and such termination and surrender.

Fitzroy Football Club surrendered its AFL licence and thereafter released the AFL from any claim on the licence. This clause was included because the Fitzroy Football Club, complete with directors and shareholders, continued on its own right. This was formally recognised by the Supreme Court of Victoria in 2010.

(page 10-11)
a) The "Merged Club" (i.e the Brisbane Bears Football Club) will trade as Brisbane Lions Australian Football Club and subject to the passing of the special resolution referred to in clause 6, the Merged Club (see Definition of 'Merged Club' above)will be re-named Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited

The re-naming of the Club was voted on by that Club's existing members (which were the Bears members). I was / am a Fitzroy Football Club shareholder who elects Fitzroy Football Club directors (effectively a life member if I keep the shares - which I have). I received no such vote because as a Fitzroy shareholder, I was not a member of the Brisbane Bears Football Club.