Review VB: Put a fork in him!

[Pugsley]

Agree. We made calls on better players like Hart, but can't on others that clearly aren't up to it. Every footy club has them thou...

Port loves a good butcher.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

About 2 games too late. Hope he can find some form in the SANFL, but I think his AFL days are done. Have to look to next year.

Extremely kind.

I feel way more sorry for the guys who haven't been given a DECENT opportunity despite dominating SANFL.

VB is treacle slow these days so the pace of the next guy would not have made things worse, but their football ability would've made things better.

Ditto for Wright…he usually achieves nothing with the ball, and I don't believe he achieves much defensively either. Compare that to the clean hands and crisp skills of his potential replacements…it's hard to understand.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Agree. We made calls on better players like Hart, but can't on others that clearly aren't up to it. Every footy club has them thou...

I reckon part of it is they are so concerned we don't have enough senior players (numbers of games experience on a spreadsheet) so any useless hack gets an extra year or 2 on their contract if they are old enough, unlike like the Hart/Torney era where we needed to pension off a few older players to avoid a mass retirement (even though it happened on a small scale anyway).

 

[King Elvis]

I reckon part of it is they are so concerned we don't have enough senior players (numbers of games experience on a spreadsheet) so any useless hack gets an extra year or 2 on their contract if they are old enough, unlike like the Hart/Torney era where we needed to pension off a few older players to avoid a mass retirement (even though it happened on a small scale anyway).

We are a nice Club.

 

[Andrew P]

Our main problem for the rest of the season now is that Campo is our head coach ... he is terrible as our midfield coach and this has been evident over the last 3 years as the set-ups are generally always aggressive and his combinations of players in there never cover off the oppositions strength . It is always hunt ball , get ball and this only works for a clean possession 10% of the time . 40% of the time we win the pill , pressure is applied and it is a forced kick forward or a close in handball to even more pressure . The 50% of time we do not win the ball we get completely carved up because Thompson is like getting past a witches hat , Danger is limited in his application of defensive pressure although at times that has been better this season and our other midfielder is generally outgunned for pace and all players are on the aggressive stance in application . I would like to see Danger go forward if Thompson is in the centre square and vice versa . Game in Game out i see other coaches completely out think the crows in the centre square . Our coaches box needs a radical shift on personnel for 2016 .

 

[Andrew P]

Mackay needs to be in the gun as well as Wright . They are not up to it and we should have traded both when they had currency .
Melbourne wanted Mackay but unlikely now and we could have palmed Wright off to Brisbane .

 

[Pugsley]

Mackay needs to be in the gun as well as Wright . They are not up to it and we should have traded both when they had currency .
Melbourne wanted Mackay but unlikely now and we could have palmed Wright off to Brisbane .

Gold Coast are open to offers to anyone who wants to play for them.

 

[1970crow]

Yes Walsh certainly was giving VB an extended chance. Outside of VB's elite approach, team first and a respect for his leadership skills I had to wonder what Walsh continued to see in the current state of his game. For some seasons VB has enjoyed a more buoyant standing in the team than his on-field performances otherwise suggested and maybe Walsh put over-weighted faith in elite training track performances that he believed would emerge on the field. Anyway seems the exposure of non-captaincy and the setback from the Achilles damage may now have set a hurdle too high.

I didn't think Campo would act so swiftly but it shows there are still moves to be made with our squad and another page has been turned.

I don't think it's that simple. You can't change the culture of an entire football dept by bringing in a head coach that reports to a director of football that has been around for a while. I think I'm correct in saying that the director of football was responsible for the extra year that VB is presently contracted for plus Dmac's next 3. I wonder whether part of Walshy's brief was to sit back a bit in terms of certain areas and see how some of the incumbents went about it. Perhaps he was to report to Fagan and Roo at a certain point through the year. Perhaps those selector(s) who continually perferred VB in the team were finally isolated as being a major part of our continued ordinariness and muted from above.

It's a bit of a conspiracy theory and probably a fair stretch especialy considering the fringe benefit of having another go at Noble and the pre-Walsh culture. And Noble having somehow been found out as the problem. So I've probably taken it a tad far. A bit like hoping for both VB and Dmac to be dropped and not have effing Pods under consideration for selection.

 

[Red mist]

Our main problem for the rest of the season now is that Campo is our head coach ... he is terrible as our midfield coach and this has been evident over the last 3 years as the set-ups are generally always aggressive and his combinations of players in there never cover off the oppositions strength . It is always hunt ball , get ball and this only works for a clean possession 10% of the time . 40% of the time we win the pill , pressure is applied and it is a forced kick forward or a close in handball to even more pressure . The 50% of time we do not win the ball we get completely carved up because Thompson is like getting past a witches hat , Danger is limited in his application of defensive pressure although at times that has been better this season and our other midfielder is generally outgunned for pace and all players are on the aggressive stance in application . I would like to see Danger go forward if Thompson is in the centre square and vice versa . Game in Game out i see other coaches completely out think the crows in the centre square . Our coaches box needs a radical shift on personnel for 2016 .

Very accurate. There will be a restructure, contracts permitting. I did go with in house caretaker though as it would have been very hard logistics to bring someone to head coach from outside with the structure set. Worsfold is a bonus in the role he is helping us out with and I hope his voice is commanding.

 

[1970crow]

Forking hell, I'm just glad the word (omitted) was next to his name and we didn't cook up a (general soreness) to explain it. We have actually said to the world, "we have a senior player not playing well enough and he's been replaced". It's about forking time.

I know a fair bit of Sydney's success is built on the COLA, but we only needed to look at Goodes early in the season. Longmire saw it fit to play him in a combination of 2's and sub and he's an out and out champion of a player. VB was above average earlier in his career, but has been nothing more than an honest plodder the last 3-4 years and yet there appeared a prevailing view that if he's physically fit, he's an automatic selection. Goodes has worked into the season quite nicely and looks like playing his part if they go deep into September. Compare that to where VB is right now and what we've achieved by playing him when woefully out of form.

 

[rocket18]

Can anyone name one weapon he has aside from running well at training.?

He was great at the coin toss, he won 62%* of the tosses - well above average.





*this figure may be incorrect

 

[beartoo]

Our main problem for the rest of the season now is that Campo is our head coach ... he is terrible as our midfield coach and this has been evident over the last 3 years as the set-ups are generally always aggressive and his combinations of players in there never cover off the oppositions strength . It is always hunt ball , get ball and this only works for a clean possession 10% of the time . 40% of the time we win the pill , pressure is applied and it is a forced kick forward or a close in handball to even more pressure . The 50% of time we do not win the ball we get completely carved up because Thompson is like getting past a witches hat , Danger is limited in his application of defensive pressure although at times that has been better this season and our other midfielder is generally outgunned for pace and all players are on the aggressive stance in application . I would like to see Danger go forward if Thompson is in the centre square and vice versa . Game in Game out i see other coaches completely out think the crows in the centre square . Our coaches box needs a radical shift on personnel for 2016 .

I don't buy the Campo was a terrible midfield coach or that his set-ups were all bad. Phil Walsh didn't either. He gave Campo a couple of glowing reports during his 12 games in charge. What's below comes from here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-08/the-men-in-the-middle-who-are-your-clubs-centre-square-stars

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Sam Jacobs 87 per centCentre square hit-outs (per game): Sam Jacobs 12.3Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 34.4 per cent AFL ranking: 4th

OnballersMost used combination: Sam Jacobs, Scott Thompson, Patrick Dangerfield, Cam Ellis-Yolmen (48 times)Most used midfielder: (midfielder who attends most centre bounces) Patrick Dangerfield (250 times)Centre clearances won: (team) 48.3 per cent AFL ranking: 3rd Centre clearance king: Patrick Dangerfield (39)Centre clearance differential: Adelaide is +25 when Sam Jacobs attends a centre bounce.

We rank 3rd in the AFL for centre clearances. Set up works a lot of the time.

 

[1970crow]

And brilliantly we signed him up for another year. So effectively the last year of his contract is a waste. We did it with Porps, Pods, Stiffy (even though I think Sando screwed him), Reilly before his tragic injury was also heading down the same path and the same will happen with Dmack. Our list management has been poor.

I think you've got Dmac horribly wrong there EC. It won't be the same with Dmac, it's going to be far worse. If we were serious about being a football team on a path to a few years around the top and a crack at a flag, right now he'd be battling with about 6 others for the 22nd spot in the team. And we've got 3 more years and he's not going to get any better.

 

[rocket18]

About 2 games too late. Hope he can find some form in the SANFL, but I think his AFL days are done. Have to look to next year.

About 2 years too late, he should have been dropped this time in 2013 - he had a stinker of a year then as well.

No sympathy for VB, he should have put his hand up and said "I'm not up to it", this would be putting the team first. Players that hang on for dear life, whilst understandable, can't then say they put the team first.

 

[skoobydoo]

With regards to saying bye bye to the Trigg era and reaching for mediocrity, yes it's a party time. But regarding an ex-captain bring embarrassed at AFL level for 2 months, it's an indictment upon the culture of the football dept. Nobody wants VB's career to end upon an absolute whimper. But our football dept created this mess by not managing VB whilst it was still a plausible scenario. He needed something other than AFL selection to give him a chance to return to AFL worthy form and yet it was an issue that clearly escaped the selection group.

Do you mean by the 'something other', - regaining form through the 2's?

 

[Andrew P]

I don't buy the Campo was a terrible midfield coach or that his set-ups were all bad. Phil Walsh didn't either. He gave Campo a couple of glowing reports during his 12 games in charge. What's below comes from here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-08/the-men-in-the-middle-who-are-your-clubs-centre-square-stars

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Sam Jacobs 87 per centCentre square hit-outs (per game): Sam Jacobs 12.3Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 34.4 per cent AFL ranking: 4th

OnballersMost used combination: Sam Jacobs, Scott Thompson, Patrick Dangerfield, Cam Ellis-Yolmen (48 times)Most used midfielder: (midfielder who attends most centre bounces) Patrick Dangerfield (250 times)Centre clearances won: (team) 48.3 per cent AFL ranking: 3rd Centre clearance king: Patrick Dangerfield (39)Centre clearance differential: Adelaide is +25 when Sam Jacobs attends a centre bounce.

We rank 3rd in the AFL for centre clearances. Set up works a lot of the time.

We may rank 3rd for clearances but when that clearance is pressured and the ball goes to the opposition then how beneficial is it . Other teams don't mind as they just kill us on the spread . There main focus is to apply pressure and force a turnover and then stretch us and exploit our lack of leg speed .

 

[Red mist]

I don't buy the Campo was a terrible midfield coach or that his set-ups were all bad. Phil Walsh didn't either. He gave Campo a couple of glowing reports during his 12 games in charge. What's below comes from here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-08/the-men-in-the-middle-who-are-your-clubs-centre-square-stars

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Sam Jacobs 87 per centCentre square hit-outs (per game): Sam Jacobs 12.3Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 34.4 per cent AFL ranking: 4th

OnballersMost used combination: Sam Jacobs, Scott Thompson, Patrick Dangerfield, Cam Ellis-Yolmen (48 times)Most used midfielder: (midfielder who attends most centre bounces) Patrick Dangerfield (250 times)Centre clearances won: (team) 48.3 per cent AFL ranking: 3rd Centre clearance king: Patrick Dangerfield (39)Centre clearance differential: Adelaide is +25 when Sam Jacobs attends a centre bounce.

We rank 3rd in the AFL for centre clearances. Set up works a lot of the time.

The stats don't lie and its all well and good. The game has changed however from just being top rated at stoppages. Its getting more involved in exit strategies both offensively and defensively and that's where we don't necessarily stack up.

 

[Andrew P]

The stats don't lie and its all well and good. The game has changed however from just being top rated at stoppages. Its getting more involved in exit strategies both offensively and defensively and that's where we don't necessarily stack up.

Hawthorn are 17th and Sydney 18th in hit outs to advantage and rank 14th and 12th overall .

 

[Schulzycrow]

Extremely kind.

I feel way more sorry for the guys who haven't been given a DECENT opportunity despite dominating SANFL.

VB is treacle slow these days so the pace of the next guy would not have made things worse, but their football ability would've made things better.

Ditto for Wright…he usually achieves nothing with the ball, and I don't believe he achieves much defensively either. Compare that to the clean hands and crisp skills of his potential replacements…it's hard to understand.

Did I say 2? I meant 8...at the very least. My mates think I have a pathological hatred of VB...not so. I just think we should have dropped his ass months ago.

 

[Red mist]

Hawthorn are 17th and Sydney 18th in hit outs to advantage and rank 14th and 12th overall .

Exactly, they don't care who wins the stoppage. They care more about the structure around it. From first possession they allow. A couple of possessions down the chain they have covered and by pressure or incorrect disposal they then switch into attack mode.

 

[Andrew P]

Exactly, they don't care who wins the stoppage. They care more about the structure around it. From first possession they allow. A couple of possessions down the chain they have covered and by pressure or incorrect disposal they then switch into attack mode.

Agree , it is the way the modern game is played and we are not keeping up ! we expend so much pointless energy in our games where as Hawthorn are the most efficient team in the league in reward for physical output . It is how you apply it and where .

 

[Pugsley]

Exactly, they don't care who wins the stoppage. They care more about the structure around it. From first possession they allow. A couple of possessions down the chain they have covered and by pressure or incorrect disposal they then switch into attack mode.

Use average PlayStation picks as ruckmen.

 

[1970crow]

I don't buy the Campo was a terrible midfield coach or that his set-ups were all bad. Phil Walsh didn't either. He gave Campo a couple of glowing reports during his 12 games in charge. What's below comes from here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-08/the-men-in-the-middle-who-are-your-clubs-centre-square-stars

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Sam Jacobs 87 per centCentre square hit-outs (per game): Sam Jacobs 12.3Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 34.4 per cent AFL ranking: 4th

OnballersMost used combination: Sam Jacobs, Scott Thompson, Patrick Dangerfield, Cam Ellis-Yolmen (48 times)Most used midfielder: (midfielder who attends most centre bounces) Patrick Dangerfield (250 times)Centre clearances won: (team) 48.3 per cent AFL ranking: 3rd Centre clearance king: Patrick Dangerfield (39)Centre clearance differential: Adelaide is +25 when Sam Jacobs attends a centre bounce.

We rank 3rd in the AFL for centre clearances. Set up works a lot of the time.

This issue isn't the raw numbers, they stack up. It's the fact that our extractions are poor in quality because we're often under pressure having failed to adequately clear the stoppage. That is matched with the opposition being able to get the ball into the hands of a player who is under no pressure and has time to look and deliver. Looking at the raw clearance numbers, Sando style, is asking for trouble. There's also the fact that the midfield don't just run on and off the ground for stoppages. There's also a lot of work in general play, which is we get destroyed for quality and quantity between the arcs. Our midfield makes it hard for our forwards because of the pressure they are under and hard for our defense because of the pressure that the opposition isn't under.

 

[Andrew P]

This issue isn't the raw numbers, they stack up. It's the fact that our extractions are poor in quality because we're often under pressure having failed to adequately clear the stoppage. That is matched with the opposition being able to get the ball into the hands of a player who is under no pressure and has time to look and deliver. Looking at the raw clearance numbers, Sando style, is asking for trouble. There's also the fact that the midfield don't just run on and off the ground for stoppages. There's also a lot of work in general play, which is we get destroyed for quality and quantity between the arcs. Our midfield makes it hard for our forwards because of the pressure they are under and hard for our defense because of the pressure that the opposition isn't under.

Well put !

 

[1970crow]

Do you mean by the 'something other', - regaining form through the 2's?

Not necessarily in isolation. I think a year off results in the body not quite being right even if the injury itself has healed. Could a week off to freshen body and mind have assisted, then perhaps a week in the 2's or a game starting as sub here and there. I just can't understand how we just sat on our hands and hoped to hell he got back to form in the 1's when it clearly wasn't working. I'm not the blokes biggest fan as a footballer, but to me it seems as though we let him down.