- Sep 13, 2013
- 31,411
- 28,204
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Juventus
We don't kick long to him anyway. We play a style that doesn't suit him. We would be a better team with someone else there when kicking for goal.
WTF are you talking about?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
We don't kick long to him anyway. We play a style that doesn't suit him. We would be a better team with someone else there when kicking for goal.
Only 7? That's actually quite a significant number. He also played one more game then Cloke. If the both played full years Cloke would have kicked 11 more goals. You can't really say White got close.
And also that's not taking into account all the limp efforts White puts when he allows his defender to intercept mark.
Hopefully next year we don't target him at all.
They're not excuses, they're reasons.
And you haven't disputed those reasons.
He won't be around when we go for our next flag. He'll be quinten Lynch by then.WTF are you talking about?
Reasons are that Cloke is a key forward, White isn't. Like it or not, Cloke's KPI is primarily scoring goals. Let's start moving some ruck work to Cloke as well and then we can compare.Only 7? That's actually quite a significant number. He also played one more game then Cloke. If the both played full years Cloke would have kicked 11 more goals. You can't really say White got close.
And also that's not taking into account all the limp efforts White puts when he allows his defender to intercept mark.
Hopefully next year we don't target him at all.
They're not excuses, they're reasons.
And you haven't disputed those reasons.
Sam Fisher skinny?
Tom McDonald was in AA form till Cloke tore him a new one, and Lynden Dunn is pretty experienced.
And your Richmond example doesn't add up, they have Rance one of the best one on one defenders in the game.
The Geelong game was lost when Bucks decided to line up Jack Frost on Tom Hawkins.
And when Tarrant left we still had Rocca and Cloke was developing, our key forward stocks were fine then. We have Cloke and White? Don't get me started on him. Moore? Not ready to be on his own yet.
Freo are a good defensive side and McPharlin does have a good record against him but that's my point. Cloke simply doesn't contribute enough for us against good opposition as 8 goals in 8 matches against top 8 sides attests to. He played well against Hawthorn granted, but at the end of the day he missed too many easy shots (which I reckon he does more than once a year too) and we didn't get the win. As Lake said to Cloke after another miss "you're making me look good".In the Freo, Luke McPharlin has a good record on Cloke and Freo are a very good defensive team. The Hawthorn game Cloke had an inaccurate night, he has one games every year unfortunately it was this one. But I said before, he created those opportunities in the first place by ragdolling Brian Lake (not a skinny defender) so we wouldn't have been better off without him.
This is bullshit, sorry. It was wet, so what? It was wet for every player. Fair enough it wasn't a game conducive to marking and goal kicking but Cloke had no impact whatsoever in a physical and team sense. He did nothing. When we needed someone to provide an inspirational bit of team play ie a great chase, hard tackle big bump he simply did not do it. He was an irrelevancy and as our supposed "marquee" forward it simply isn't good enough. Blaming the midfield is a cop out.It was pissing down rain, not a key forwards night. The needed him the most doesn't apply, its our inside mids that we need to step up. Unfortunately they were switched off for the first quarter and De Goey was the sub for some reason.
No forward delivery (even Hawthorns) is 100% accurate. If he gets bad delivery I expect Trav to keep leading, keep working until he starts getting results. If he starts leading to smarter spots (a frequent knock on his game) works for front spot as he did in 2011-13 then he'll start getting more opportunities no matter how bad our mids kick. Stopping presenting and resorting to wrestling with 3 opponents in the goal square clearly doesn't work but it's the trap he (and the team bombing it to him) keep falling into and as a result our forward line is ineffective. Not all Trav's fault and the coaching and mids need to take responsibility too, but imo as the number 1 forward the onus is on him.Why do you think people moan about delivery?
Have you ever thought maybe it was because our delivery is s**t to him.
What do you expect Cloke do to when the ball is constantly dropping short of him, kicked over his head or bombed to him when his got three defenders on him?
See above. Trav isn't very good below his knees and is a marking forward purely but he's either forgotten or is neglecting his best assets. He simply isn't getting himself in the best positions to mark as often anymore. He seems to have fallen in love with tests of strength with defenders when he was always far more effective running straight and jumping at contests from front position. He is nigh on unstoppable when doing this but whether through game plan or physical limitations he doesn't do it enough anymore and it's costing him and us. That's just my $0.02 worth as a laymen but really Cloke should be the one to solve the issue of his diminishing returns and on exposed form from the past two seasons little has changed in the way he has approached his game.Do you have any suggestions? I see allot of posters saying this but don't actually offer say what he should do.
6.6 marks per game is nothing special especially for someone his size working up the field especially compared to previous years. His work rate has always been great but I simply don't think him taking marks on the wing is what we need him for anymore. We need more forward impact from him and I don't think our number one forward kicking mid 30's is anywhere near a decent return on what the club is paying him for and that needs to change or we should probably look at parting ways come the end of the year if that change doesn't occur.As I explained before, he can out muscle real opponents.
If he's not out muscling them, he's on his bike taking marks up the field averaged 6.6 and in the so called three games we needed him most he averaged 7.
1st part- most of those big named players have another partner in crime to take the load off them, who go to dangerousWhy is it only Travis Cloke who has this problem of being caught with 2 or 3 on him all game, you never hear any of the other big name forwards having this happen all the time.
If you want to take the big contract you have to stand up in big games. You can't have an 800-900k player deliver nothing in half the games he plays.
He won't be around when we go for our next flag. He'll be quinten Lynch by then.
He had 3 others kick more than 25 this year, you can't say he's got noone. Josh Kennedy kicked 80 and the next best tall there kicked 26.
Cloke is paid absolute top dollar so he needs to find some new tricks rather than crawl into a hole if conditions don't suit him. He needs to make a contribution week in, week out not just when we are belting bottom sides.
Pendlebury gets tagged, he finds a way around it. Cloke kicked 3 goals from Round 13 onwards, are you telling me that's good enough?
But Josh Hill and Mark Lecras kicked over 40
Tell me what these new tricks are?
Cloke was also injured from that point onwards, but don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Travis Cloke is our number one most important player by a country mile.
yep lets get rid of our best players, trade for kids then wonder why we don't make the eightAmazing how the same people who complain about Bucks getting rid of important, experienced stars are the same people saying we should get rid of Sidebottom and Cloke.
It truly boggles the mind.
If we get rid of the whole team, imagine the cap space we could have!
stats please on joe gooseWant to be. He's getting about 30 grand per goal. Joe the Goose gets more goals than Cloke.
cloke is wanting to stay at our club, and people are getting upset amazing
well it seems we have different position on cloke. l see his problem as a team problem rather thanThat's great but he has under delivered on his past contract and you can't have that. If he signs for 500k then I'll be happy.
well it seems we have different position on cloke. l see his problem as a team problem rather than
its all his fault. and l would be surprised his next contract is the same as he gets now more 550-600k range
Should be confident with any player having a shot from 10-15 metres out.....yet with cloke you can barely look.....some of his misses are truly amazing for a professional footballer
That's disgraceful!!He won't be around when we go for our next flag. He'll be quinten Lynch by then.
yes right now he is around if reports are true 700-800 range. l did say next contract thoughHe's on far more than that.
On that last point, I agree but don't see why it means we have to get rid of him. We just need to change the way we play. Imagine if our forward structure was better and cloke wasn't getting double teamed constantly. We have the cattle to do it this way, no need to get rid of him if he's willing to take a bit less coinThat's funny, we seemed ot dispatch Geelong just fine without him last year.
Do we? Our record without him is actually pretty damned good. Especially given that we've been an injury ravaged side in the last 4 seasons.
You heard me. People need to let go. Our forward line becomes unpredictable without Cloke. It FORCES our midfield to look for options, it FORCES other players to step up.