Preview The Wooden Spoon / Pick #1

[Ironmonger]

This.

I haven't seen a poster who has even suggested we tank. But we're rubbish, even more rubbish when half our team is injured. People need to start excepting the fact we are in all likeliness going to finish last. That does not mean anyone at the isn't going to stop trying however.

We might well finish last, but personally I'll wait a few months longer before accepting any likelihood.

 

[notliondown]

I'm sorry. I know I'm stupid.

But for the life of me I just dont get how one KPP is somehow the panacea to our supposed problems. We cant have a list thats completely devoid of talent and is either too old or too young or fragile or lacking in depth or whatever else the issue for today is then magically by getting a high draft pick KPP our problems are solved.

The logic of that argument is...well lacking, to me at least anyway.

 

[dlanod]

I'm sorry. I know I'm stupid.

But for the life of me I just dont get how one KPP is somehow the panacea to our supposed problems. We cant have a list thats completely devoid of talent and is either too old or too young or fragile or lacking in depth or whatever else the issue for today is then magically by getting a high draft pick KPP our problems are solved.

The logic of that argument is...well lacking, to me at least anyway.

Good thing not too many people are making that argument, instead saying that of our glaring weaknesses the lack of a real KPF is both the most glaring and least likely to be filled by those already on our list.

 

[Ironmonger]

Good thing not too many people are making that argument, instead saying that of our glaring weaknesses the lack of a real KPF is both the most glaring and least likely to be filled by those already on our list.

Totally.

It'd be great if everyone could make an effort to be honest when describing other people's views.

 

[notliondown]

Good thing not too many people are making that argument, instead saying that of our glaring weaknesses the lack of a real KPF is both the most glaring and least likely to be filled by those already on our list.

Totally.

It'd be great if everyone could make an effort to be honest when describing other people's views.

Actually its the argument made directly by some previous posters. And I didn't quote the original posts because it was a general comment not one directed at people to create arguments. Go back and reread some of the earlier pages.

On the other hand it seems some itch for an argument at every opportunity.

 

[SizeMatters]

Finishing last we also more importantly get the first pick in PSD. Hope Beams is talking to his brother down at Collingwood and make him walk so we don't have to trade for him.

 

[Scubaveg]

Finishing last we also more importantly get the first pick in PSD. Hope Beams is talking to his brother down at Collingwood and make him walk so we don't have to trade for him.

Fantasy.


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[Big Lion]

Fantasy.


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At least it's a good fantasy.

 

[dlanod]

Actually its the argument made directly by some previous posters. And I didn't quote the original posts because it was a general comment not one directed at people to create arguments. Go back and reread some of the earlier pages.

I've read all of them. For my punishment, I went back and re-read them all just then. There was only one post that even came close to arguing that (see below), and even he's not arguing it's going to fix all our issues.

Mediocrity is what we've been experiencing since our premiership years, time to really bottom out and get a game changing gun. Good thing for us is we don't have to tank, owing to injuries we'll get there just fine doing what we are currently doing.

 

[Ironmonger]

Actually its the argument made directly by some previous posters. And I didn't quote the original posts because it was a general comment not one directed at people to create arguments. Go back and reread some of the earlier pages.

On the other hand it seems some itch for an argument at every opportunity.

Mate, I just want you to stop making stuff up. I've said this to you a couple of times before but you just seem to get upset about it. It's easy not to get into an argument about it. Stop doing it.

 

[notliondown]

It could if we traded it for a lower pick and two quality players

True, it won't save us, but it may help a great deal moving forward And why shouldn't we get the best pick available; we've been scrooged on picks with the expansion teams coming in and diluting the ones we've had.

Completely agree with that, what is the point of another middle of the road finish?

What about this... we tank and get pick 1.

The number 1 draft pick will suffice.

Mediocrity is what we've been experiencing since our premiership years, time to really bottom out and get a game changing gun.

Our squad is a lot more fragile than many thought when Voss was sacked and really there is not a great quick fix solution out there except find a key position forward either through free-agency or the draft.

Yep. All made up.

My sincere apologies to those dragged into this. It was not my intention to create an argument with what was simply meant to be thinking out loud. Sorry again.

I'm done.

 

[SizeMatters]

name and shame! I can't believe how defeatist our supporters have become on the back of a few injuries and some ironing out of a new game plan.

 

[Slax]

I haven't seen a poster who has even suggested we tank. But we're rubbish, even more rubbish when half our team is injured. People need to start excepting the fact we are in all likeliness going to finish last. That does not mean anyone at the isn't going to stop trying however.

Agree, we have a chance though to get games into young players, we also have the chance to put them directly up against A grade players, not by choice but by necessity. We also now need to look our fringe players and decide will they be part of our next finals campaign or not? If not then move them on, this means making some tough decisions on the older players. The one up side for the rest of the year is the opportunity to really guage where our rookies are at, especially our two rucks in Sam Michael & Arche Smith. We can get games into them against quality opposition which can show what wehave to look forward too.

If we avoid the wooden spoon it would deem the rest of the season a success from where we are at now, but for where we thought we were 2 months ago the season is already a failure.

 

[Slax]

Yep. All made up.

My sincere apologies to those dragged into this. It was not my intention to create an argument with what was simply meant to be thinking out loud. Sorry again.

I'm not trying to argue here but I'd like to know why you think that our list is not fragile? did you think it was that thin that we couldn't cover the loss of some our our better players, even before Leuenburger and Hanley went down it was clear against GC that we were in for a long season. For a team to go from being so close to finals to favourites for the spoon in 6 months it says something is serious wrong with one of three things

1. The club as a whole has lost its way;
2. The coach; or
3. Our list overachieved last season.

If you want to make bold statements please justify otherwise it appears to everyone you are picking an arguement when you accuse a number of people of making up comments. If you want to make these statements back them otherwise you just look like another over opinionated fool with nothing of value to offer.

 

[Viceregal]

If you want to make these statements back them otherwise you just look like another over opinionated fool with nothing of value to offer.

Considering that notliondown has often been the voice of reason and sanity in the midst of board meltdowns and as a rule speaks sense and avoids emotionalism etc I would be leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt as to the attitudes and motivations behind his posting ...

 

[Slax]

Considering that notliondown has often been the voice of reason and sanity in the midst of board meltdowns and as a rule speaks sense and avoids emotionalism etc I would be leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt as to the attitudes and motivations behind his posting ...

Still doesn't change the fact that I will refuse to allow my comments to be called made up lies by someone unwilling to offer an alternative view as to why he holds that view.

 

[Panthera]

I'm not trying to argue here but I'd like to know why you think that our list is not fragile? did you think it was that thin that we couldn't cover the loss of some our our better players, even before Leuenburger and Hanley went down it was clear against GC that we were in for a long season. For a team to go from being so close to finals to favourites for the spoon in 6 months it says something is serious wrong with one of three things

1. The club as a whole has lost its way;
2. The coach; or
3. Our list overachieved last season.

If you want to make bold statements please justify otherwise it appears to everyone you are picking an arguement when you accuse a number of people of making up comments. If you want to make these statements back them otherwise you just look like another over opinionated fool with nothing of value to offer.

I actually don't think it's any of the above

It's quite normal for a team to struggle after the upheaval we went through at the end of last season with the coaching / board changeover. Coupled with the fact we lost 5 players (whether they we're playing or not at the time) and replaced them with kids hurts us more with all the experienced players we have out injured / not playing. It's not like we've lost foot soldiers in our best 22, we've lost 3 of our first 5 picked in Leuey, Rich and Hanley.

I think two players who we've missed are Staker & McGrath. Staker was solid when he played in the second half of 2013, as was McGrath, especially in the Geelong games. Add Josh Green who got injured at the start of the Gold Coast game and we have three very capable forward line players who are not supporting Browny when the ball spasmodically gets into our F50 (we're ranked 18th for this). Green had a very good finish to 2013 with 16.1 in the final 9 games after returning from injury.

With regards to Leppa, none of us know if he's the man for the job; but I love the fact he's playing the likes of Gardiner when he had the option to play Maguire and how he sent Robbo to Cotchin to cut his teeth against one of the best rather than give Raines more dead games

We're in for a long long season, but I'm sure there will be glimpses of light at the end of the tunnel every now and then. We've already seen the youngsters drafted show they will be capable; very impressed with Aish, Taylor, Gardiner, Cutler & Robertson - we just need to put the necessary training / coaching into them to give the middle finger salute to all those who said the GO HOME 5 would ruin our club for years to come

 

[Slax]

I actually don't think it's any of the above

It's quite normal for a team to struggle after the upheaval we went through at the end of last season with the coaching / board changeover. Coupled with the fact we lost 5 players (whether they we're playing or not at the time) and replaced them with kids hurts us more with all the experienced players we have out injured / not playing. It's not like we've lost foot soldiers in our best 22, we've lost 3 of our first 5 picked in Leuey, Rich and Hanley.

Wouldn't call Trent West a kid. Also the problems were pretty clear to see before those three got injured, what it did though was amplify the problem that already ecxisted in us have the weakest players ranked 16-22 in the competition.

I think two players who we've missed are Staker & McGrath. Staker was solid when he played in the second half of 2013, as was McGrath, especially in the Geelong games. Add Josh Green who got injured at the start of the Gold Coast game and we have three very capable forward line players who are not supporting Browny when the ball spasmodically gets into our F50 (we're ranked 18th for this). Green had a very good finish to 2013 with 16.1 in the final 9 games after returning from injury.

With regards to Leppa, none of us know if he's the man for the job; but I love the fact he's playing the likes of Gardiner when he had the option to play Maguire and how he sent Robbo to Cotchin to cut his teeth against one of the best rather than give Raines more dead games

We're in for a long long season, but I'm sure there will be glimpses of light at the end of the tunnel every now and then. We've already seen the youngsters drafted show they will be capable; very impressed with Aish, Taylor, Gardiner, Cutler & Robertson - we just need to put the necessary training / coaching into them to give the middle finger salute to all those who said the GO HOME 5 would ruin our club for years to come

I am really hoping to see some sort of light out of the remainder of the season and no doubt there will be some players to stand up and say they are ready. It will also be interesting to see who is willing to step up and fill the leadership void created by the loss of Leuey and Rich.

As for the Go Home 5, I've always maintained that realistically there were only two losses, Yeo & Docherty, Polec is borderline. Neither Longer or Kanezis was a loss, yes Longer would be good to have now, but I always question recruiting him at 8 when we already had Leuey (Redden I'm looking at you)

 

[Panthera]

Wouldn't call Trent West a kid. Also the problems were pretty clear to see before those three got injured, what it did though was amplify the problem that already ecxisted in us have the weakest players ranked 16-22 in the competition.


I am really hoping to see some sort of light out of the remainder of the season and no doubt there will be some players to stand up and say they are ready. It will also be interesting to see who is willing to step up and fill the leadership void created by the loss of Leuey and Rich.

As for the Go Home 5, I've always maintained that realistically there were only two losses, Yeo & Docherty, Polec is borderline. Neither Longer or Kanezis was a loss, yes Longer would be good to have now, but I always question recruiting him at 8 when we already had Leuey (Redden I'm looking at you)

Seen Polec play this year yet?

 

[dlanod]

Seen Polec play this year yet?

Would he ever have been as good for us?

 

[notliondown]

I'm not trying to argue here but I'd like to know why you think that our list is not fragile? did you think it was that thin that we couldn't cover the loss of some our our better players, even before Leuenburger and Hanley went down it was clear against GC that we were in for a long season. For a team to go from being so close to finals to favourites for the spoon in 6 months it says something is serious wrong with one of three things

1. The club as a whole has lost its way;
2. The coach; or
3. Our list overachieved last season.

If you want to make bold statements please justify otherwise it appears to everyone you are picking an arguement when you accuse a number of people of making up comments. If you want to make these statements back them otherwise you just look like another over opinionated fool with nothing of value to offer.

Actually mate your response is why I didnt want to quote posts in the first place. People jump to conclusions way too quickly.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, if you look back you'll see I was the one accused of making things up.

My original post that caused all this unnecessary distraction and ruckus simply mused about the idea that some had posted along the lines of high draft pick/s would seem to be the solution to our current woes and that it didnt make sense to me... no one else. It didnt point fingers, it didnt make people look like fools, it wasnt some work of fiction. It was simply a post questioning the idea.

If you read your post carefully its worded suggesting you think its a quick fix.

Our squad is a lot more fragile than many thought when Voss was sacked and really there is not a great quick fix solution out there except find a key position forward either through free-agency or the draft

.If thats not what you meant I apologise for misreading it in the context of a thread about the wooden spoon but right now it seems to make you look like the "over opinionated fool with nothing of value to offer".

I agree our list is fragile - I've never said it wasn't - thats the folly in the idea that high draft picks alone are the solution. It hasnt worked for others in isolation and I cant see it working for us was simply my point.

Again I wasnt trying to cause an argument. And I wasnt trying to misrepresent others. But if I'm accused of lying or making things up then you can be sure I will defend myself. My apologies if thats caused any hurt or discomfort.

And now, if theres nothing else I'm accused of?

 

[notliondown]

Still doesn't change the fact that I will refuse to allow my comments to be called made up lies by someone unwilling to offer an alternative view as to why he holds that view.

Go back and read the thread, no one accused you of anything. Especially that you lied???? Where in Gods name have I accused you of lying???

And my view has been made clear over and over. Not only in this thread but others.

Again my apologies for the distraction and derailing of this thread.

 

[Panthera]

Would he ever have been as good for us?

Probably not.

Unfortunately we'll never know

But it took Darren Burgess only the one pre-season to get him fit & firing. At the end of the day you get what you pay for...we've only got coin for rookies in their field. No disrespect to Matt Haas and Brett Burton but they simply aren't in the same league as someone of Burgess' ilk. He was also their Head of Conditioning in the great year that was 2004

It worries me greatly that our kids are relied upon to vastly improve themselves/our team on/off the field, yet are expected to do so without top end support.

I guess the next major appointment will tell us which direction we have decided to go; if we skimp on the Kerr replacement we'll all know

 

[scott_the_man]

Finishing last we also more importantly get the first pick in PSD. Hope Beams is talking to his brother down at Collingwood and make him walk so we don't have to trade for him.

dayne beams is contracted though isnt he? he cant just walk out

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't know but imagine the melt down.