Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[_M_16_]

Agreed.

I just think we'd be better to go after Sam Frost or Jaksch, it'll cost us less and add just as much to the side. If we're going to throw bucketloads at a contracted player, throw it at Tom Lynch.

Under the radar down here, big time. 199cm, 101kg, kicked 46 goals this year - as many as Pavlich, more than Cloke and not far off the likes of Riewoldt and Gunston.

I am very much with you on the Lynch bandwagon, he will probably present better value for money than say a Cameron who will cost us a massive fortune to get. We would still have to fork out a bit for Lynch, but perhaps not as much. Stay away from the likes of Boyd, guy is overrated. Was just a big man child who bullied his opponents with size, and apparently has a poor attitude, is arrogant.

Just don't see why so many fans are so keen on any big guy who isn't getting regular play time, simply because he is big. Would like someone to actually come out and explain how Reid will do better on a poor team, when he is statistically as poor as our struggling key forwards.

If we can get him for a second rounder I would do it, but not getting our 5th pick involved in any single way, not even a downgrade. Why throw away a chance at a potential A grader, to relying on hoping a more likely b or c grader in round two will exceed expectations. And all we got for it was a guy who hasn't done much. We cannot swap with Sydney's first round pick either as it will be locked to Heeney. So would have to be a complicated three way trade somewhere for that one to work

 

[_M_16_]

Some fair questions there. I'll try to give you an answer the way I see it. Like you said he had a good period in 11-12. Those years he was playing more as a traditional forward and he kicked 21.26 and 31.19 as a 20/21 year old (accuracy needs a bit of work ), he missed a lot of 2012 through injury and then this year he has played more up the ground and all around the place being a bit of a 'fix it' for Sydney, with most of the ball being directed to the twin towers in Buddy and Tippet. But when I have seen him go closer to goal this year he has looked very dangerous at times.

Like you say we need forwards who can kick goals but I genuinely think he can. But a forward who can kick goals isn't really all we need, he also offers quite a bit else IMO. Which is backed up by him holding his spot all year in a grand finalist side while only kicking 17 goals, he's great defensively, he works hard up the ground, he gives us marking not just inside 50 but on the wing which we severely lack, he uses the ball pretty well and links up quite a bit.

Probably not going to kick a huge bag (although he has shown he can do that too) but he can be a consistent tall forward for us which is what he adds different to the team. He's also still got a huge amount of upside and turning 23 he is the perfect age for our list just getting to the stage where he should realise his potential but still with 8-10 years in front of him.

Pretty solid answer and hard to argue with those things. Could he fit in the same forward line as Crameri, Stringer, and a potential future player such as a Wright or McCartin if we get lucky? Or even a Lynch if we hypothetically claimed him? Where will Jones fit it?

A forward line featuring say Wright, Reid, Crameri, Stringer may look a little top heavy, but really it could work and give teams nightmares, with the right forward structure, as well as the likes of our smalls in Dahlhaus and Hunter picking up the crumbs. Be hard to see where Jones fits in here, and Bontempelli may still play there whilst they take a rest.

 

[immortalmike]

Key difference between those guys is Reid is holding down a spot in the team whose just made the granny, and you could quite easily argue he's doing that while not even playing his true position. While Jones is holding down FF at Footscray and Grant is even struggling at that level. Again I'm not saying he's going to be any kind of saviour but you can rely on him to hold down a key post in the forward line and at least run out the full game and just give us something in that role. Which we can't rely on Jones for, or Redpath (not that he's been given a huge chance) or... I dunno pretty sad those are the only two names that come to mind when I think of our legitimate KPF stocks. I agree his year has been a bit disappointing for him but we've seen what he's capable of when being more of a focal point, he gives us what we need in the short term and I honestly reckon he's got quite a high ceiling. I also reckon Jones has a pretty high ceiling, but thats not working out for us currently so lets try something new?

Again I'm not trying to say we should sell the farm for him and I'm confident the club will not do that, but if he's available for the right price (big if, I don't know if he is or isn't but I'd say its a decent chance) we'd be mad to not be looking.

I'd suggest that precisely the fact that he's playing in that team is why he looks better than those guys. Grant and Jones would thrive as role players in a quality team. Reid looks lost/okay.
Put him our dysfunctional forwardline and watch him become Daniel Bandy/MacDougall/Jade Rawlings....etc.....etc......
Also as Nathan says we'd have to sell the farm for him. No thanks.

 

[go you pups]

Nothing wrong with Bandy, had a great 2002 then had foot problems in 2003/4, by the time 2005 came around Minson and Skipper were ahead of him, Rawlings couldn't kick straight, played like 3 good games in 04 for us then had his personal issues that affected his footy and the club let him go.

Lynch would be a great KPF to get but can we get him? We would have to sell half the farm imo, etc pick 5/6 26 and the Higgins compo or our 1st and 2nd plus anyone who wants out that they might want.
Can't see it happening.

 

[go you pups]

Reid and Jaksch are realistic targets, Carlisle and Lynch pretty unrealistic, Carlisle only comes to us if he wants out and wants to come. With Lynch we would have to get rid of a Hrovat or some other gun youngster plus pick 5/6 to get it done, then offering him something huge like 750k+ a year, don't see the club having the balls to do that.

 

[durrrrrrr]

I think the majority of people on here have it all wrong in terms of our list management and draft strategy this off-season. Whilst we do lack forward potency I don't think this is the time to make dramatic changes in that area. On paper when you look at the type of players we have in our forward in comparison to Hawthorns (The best forward line in the competition excluding our coke n cola friends) it really isn't much different.

Key Forward - Jarryd Roughead (193cm/100kg) & Jake Stringer (191cm/92kg, will grow)

I can see Stringer molding into a really effective Roughead type player. Both really smart players who just know when and where to lead. Stringer would also cause massive headaches for the opposition should he choose to attend a centre square bounce if the situation calls for it just as Roughy does. Since his return to AFL footy in round 15, Stringer kicked 22 goals to finish out the season, Roughead kicked 26 since round 15.

2nd Tall Forward/Resting Ruckman - David Hale (201cm/102kg) & Jordan Roughead (200cm/101kg)

Both just honest competitors, wouldn't dominate as a second ruckman but also wouldn't allow their opponent to dominate them, both competent forwards when not rucking.

3rd Tall Forward - Jack Gunston (193cm/84kg) & Stewart Crameri (189cm/97kg)

Third talls who should have an advantage over most opposition defenders given their combination of size, speed and power. Won't be your dominant forwards but a contribution of 40 goals a year would be more then sufficient.

Medium Size Forward - Luke Bruest (184cm/84kg) & Tory Dickson (184cm/185cm)

This is probably a comparison other people won't like, and not one I necessarily agree with personally but I do see some similarities. Both your medium sized forwards capable of taking good contested marks but also have the ability to produce goals from ground level. Both very accurate set shots for goal.

Small Forward - Cyril Rioli (177cm/80kg) & Luke Dahlaus (178cm/77kg)

Both your energetic forward who can produce manic pressure in the forward half but also contribute to the scoreboard. Whilst Dahlaus doesnt have that x-factor of flair that Rioli possesses, Dal can take a contested grab which would prove to be a nightmare for small defenders. I also think Dalhaus would be more effective for us as a more permanent forward as opposed to a midfielder who rests forward. Our forward pressure is average at the best of times and we are often killed from the opponents counter attacks, having Luke inside our forward 50 significantly improves our forward pressure. His finishing from both set shots and general play are also poor most likely due to fatigue.

The sixth forward spot is just for the rotating midfielder which I think we are on par with Hawthorn (or at least will be)

Apologies for grammar and sentence structure, I was quite tired writing this.

 

[Dav1d]

Just a culmination of a years worth of trade rumors

I think the majority of people on here have it all wrong in terms of our list management and draft strategy this off-season. Whilst we do lack forward potency I don't think this is the time to make dramatic changes in that area. On paper when you look at the type of players we have in our forward in comparison to Hawthorns (The best forward line in the competition excluding our coke n cola friends) it really isn't much different.

Key Forward - Jarryd Roughead (193cm/100kg) & Jake Stringer (191cm/92kg, will grow)

I can see Stringer molding into a really effective Roughead type player. Both really smart players who just know when and where to lead. Stringer would also cause massive headaches for the opposition should he choose to attend a centre square bounce if the situation calls for it just as Roughy does. Since his return to AFL footy in round 15, Stringer kicked 22 goals to finish out the season, Roughead kicked 26 since round 15.

2nd Tall Forward/Resting Ruckman - David Hale (201cm/102kg) & Jordan Roughead (200cm/101kg)

Both just honest competitors, wouldn't dominate as a second ruckman but also wouldn't allow their opponent to dominate them, both competent forwards when not rucking.

3rd Tall Forward - Jack Gunston (193cm/84kg) & Stewart Crameri (189cm/97kg)

Third talls who should have an advantage over most opposition defenders given their combination of size, speed and power. Won't be your dominant forwards but a contribution of 40 goals a year would be more then sufficient.

Medium Size Forward - Luke Bruest (184cm/84kg) & Tory Dickson (184cm/185cm)

This is probably a comparison other people won't like, and not one I necessarily agree with personally but I do see some similarities. Both your medium sized forwards capable of taking good contested marks but also have the ability to produce goals from ground level. Both very accurate set shots for goal.

Small Forward - Cyril Rioli (177cm/80kg) & Luke Dahlaus (178cm/77kg)

Both your energetic forward who can produce manic pressure in the forward half but also contribute to the scoreboard. Whilst Dahlaus doesnt have that x-factor of flair that Rioli possesses, Dal can take a contested grab which would prove to be a nightmare for small defenders. I also think Dalhaus would be more effective for us as a more permanent forward as opposed to a midfielder who rests forward. Our forward pressure is average at the best of times and we are often killed from the opponents counter attacks, having Luke inside our forward 50 significantly improves our forward pressure. His finishing from both set shots and general play are also poor most likely due to fatigue.

The sixth forward spot is just for the rotating midfielder which I think we are on par with Hawthorn (or at least will be)

Apologies for grammar and sentence structure, I was quite tired writing this.

Good attempt when tired, I thought Crameri was taller then 189cm though

Also we will likely drafted at least one or two forwards in the draft and I think Hunter is going to be a gun forward once he learns to finish and works on his forward pressure

I think for marketing sakes we need an established Key Forward still, other areas of the ground can be fixed up via the draft or some reasonable depth players via trade/the draft

 

[Roscoe_au]

If we got a Carlisle or Shaw, would be worth 5000 - 7000 additional memberships - don't worry about what the club says they're paying, it comes back via the marketing potential.

 

[Dav1d]

If we got a Carlisle or Shaw, would be worth 5000 - 7000 additional memberships - don't worry about what the club says they're paying, it comes back via the marketing potential.

Shaw?

and exactly, got to pick the right player carefully though
5000+ may be a generous estimate, in the first year anyway

 

[BRWB]

Good attempt when tired, I thought Crameri was taller then 189cm though

Also we will likely drafted at least one or two forwards in the draft and I think Hunter is going to be a gun forward once he learns to finish and works on his forward pressure

I think for marketing sakes we need an established Key Forward still, other areas of the ground can be fixed up via the draft or some reasonable depth players via trade/the draft

If we list manage for marketing and sales resons we are screwed.

Similarly, if we allow the fact that Macca needs quick results (pressure building see Sando) then we are screwed.

I hope we don't see crazy Peter Rhode trading of 03 (or Vossy's work). It only takes one s**t year of trading to ruin you.

My preference would be to get a star but youngish KPF and/or KPD (unlikely like Carlisle, JC or Boyd)
Next preference is to maximise our chances of drafting a young star KPD/KPF by trading up to Pick 2 from Melb.

But the dearth of KPs drafted by us recently (and decisions like drafting Fuller instead of Brown) mean we need some instant KP relief. Just hope we don't sell the farm to do it.

Personally, don't see overpaying for Reid as an answer, he just looks, well average, nothing special. Jaksch has done nothing not getting a game in an ordinary team. If we can get these guys at fair value then okay. P5 shouldn't be used to get either in my view. Trading one of Jones or Wood (or Higgins comp) plus 2nd round to get into late first round could be an option to get Reid. But not overly excited about it.

Losing Jones in a team thin on KPs is a worry, but then I worry Jones could remain 95% spud, 5% star.

I guess its about balance, we can't afford to have any more years like the last few (it will cost the coach his job if we do), and we run the risk of building a Melb loser culture, which then flows on to troubles in attracting and retaining talent. But in terms of pure list management, one more s**t year would be beneficial. And that is why letting your list get all out of balance and doing long rebuilds is tough. With FA here now, it should be easier for top teams to stay good, and similarly harder for struggling teams to build as their guns in their prime are cherry picked (see Melb now and what everyone is planning to do to GWS).

 

[Dav1d]

If we list manage for marketing and sales resons we are screwed.

Similarly, if we allow the fact that Macca needs quick results (pressure building see Sando) then we are screwed.

I hope we don't see crazy Peter Rhode trading of 03 (or Vossy's work). It only takes one s**t year of trading to ruin you.

My preference would be to get a star but youngish KPF and/or KPD (unlikely like Carlisle, JC or Boyd)
Next preference is to maximise our chances of drafting a young star KPD/KPF by trading up to Pick 2 from Melb.

.

How are we screwed though? I meant get JC, Lynch, Carlisle though
because they'd definitely boost membership sales!

I am really unconvinced of McCartin, worries me to death with his health issues

 

[BRWB]

How are we screwed though? I meant get JC, Lynch, Carlisle though
because they'd definitely boost membership sales!

I am really unconvinced of McCartin, worries me to death with his health issues

Ok thought you meant we go down the Aker/Hall path which is short term marketing and sales boosting but crap for the long term.

McCartin has diabetes suggest you read up on how other elite athletes have managed it on Aus Institute of Sport site. One of the best players of eighties, D Weightman had it and was a State of Origin star for the Vics. So did Bassett from Adelaide I think.

 

[fronkalicious]

I'm not a huge Reid fan (as I've made pretty clear), but I have to defend his output this year at the swans. I go to virtually every swans home game, and his role is utterly laughable. Woildnt come up on TV at all, but the guy genuinely gets yelled at if he gets too close to buddy and Tippett. He drags his man out to the boundary line about 70m from goal and parks himself there. He leads up the ground at times and gets to head inside 50 when buddy has a rest or tippett goes into the ruck. I would think he freakin hates it and it's a big part of why I think he'll request a trade.

I could definitely see him being a 30 goal a year guy for us as our focal point. He's better than jones (being able to run is huge) but not by a huge amount. He'd improve our side, but again, not by a massive amount. So as doggies has been saying, id take him, but only for the right price. Fwiw id give up 2 second rounders for him and I think the swans would take it.

 

[Dav1d]

Ok thought you meant we go down the Aker/Hall path which is short term marketing and sales boosting but crap for the long term.

McCartin has diabetes suggest you read up on how other elite athletes have managed it on Aus Institute of Sport site. One of the best players of eighties, D Weightman had it and was a State of Origin star for the Vics. So did Bassett from Adelaide I think.

No I wasn't suggesting something like that, something that favoured us both ways
not a short term solution

and I'm talking about from what I've observed watching his games
I understand he has diabetes
and he may prove me wrong at the combine
but his endurance to me looks poor, considering KPPs usually spend the highest % of TOG

 

[Gmod23]

I think the majority of people on here have it all wrong in terms of our list management and draft strategy this off-season. Whilst we do lack forward potency I don't think this is the time to make dramatic changes in that area. On paper when you look at the type of players we have in our forward in comparison to Hawthorns (The best forward line in the competition excluding our coke n cola friends) it really isn't much different.

Key Forward - Jarryd Roughead (193cm/100kg) & Jake Stringer (191cm/92kg, will grow)

I can see Stringer molding into a really effective Roughead type player. Both really smart players who just know when and where to lead. Stringer would also cause massive headaches for the opposition should he choose to attend a centre square bounce if the situation calls for it just as Roughy does. Since his return to AFL footy in round 15, Stringer kicked 22 goals to finish out the season, Roughead kicked 26 since round 15.

2nd Tall Forward/Resting Ruckman - David Hale (201cm/102kg) & Jordan Roughead (200cm/101kg)

Both just honest competitors, wouldn't dominate as a second ruckman but also wouldn't allow their opponent to dominate them, both competent forwards when not rucking.

3rd Tall Forward - Jack Gunston (193cm/84kg) & Stewart Crameri (189cm/97kg)

Third talls who should have an advantage over most opposition defenders given their combination of size, speed and power. Won't be your dominant forwards but a contribution of 40 goals a year would be more then sufficient.

Medium Size Forward - Luke Bruest (184cm/84kg) & Tory Dickson (184cm/185cm)

This is probably a comparison other people won't like, and not one I necessarily agree with personally but I do see some similarities. Both your medium sized forwards capable of taking good contested marks but also have the ability to produce goals from ground level. Both very accurate set shots for goal.

Small Forward - Cyril Rioli (177cm/80kg) & Luke Dahlaus (178cm/77kg)

Both your energetic forward who can produce manic pressure in the forward half but also contribute to the scoreboard. Whilst Dahlaus doesnt have that x-factor of flair that Rioli possesses, Dal can take a contested grab which would prove to be a nightmare for small defenders. I also think Dalhaus would be more effective for us as a more permanent forward as opposed to a midfielder who rests forward. Our forward pressure is average at the best of times and we are often killed from the opponents counter attacks, having Luke inside our forward 50 significantly improves our forward pressure. His finishing from both set shots and general play are also poor most likely due to fatigue.

The sixth forward spot is just for the rotating midfielder which I think we are on par with Hawthorn (or at least will be)

Apologies for grammar and sentence structure, I was quite tired writing this.

Like the write up. I would prefer to see Hunter instead of Dickson, think he has a bit of x-factor about him.
Agree with most of it. To implement this we need to get a KPD to get our Roughhead out of FB. I think we also need a CFB, although Talia might be able to take this spot. Why don't we get Durdin at 5, then trade the Higgins compo and our 2nd rounder to get into the mid first round. There will be another good KPP there. This gets us 2 of the 3 we need.
Then go after a KPF of either Cameron, Lynch, Carlisle this year/next year. Pay extra to get them.... more people will sign up to be members to cover the expense.
I think we need a small forward. Dalh is probably going to spend too much time in the midfield, so we need a lightning fast small. Not a contested small, a speedy defensive pressure small.

 

[Dav1d]

Like the write up. I would prefer to see Hunter instead of Dickson, think he has a bit of x-factor about him.
Agree with most of it. To implement this we need to get a KPD to get our Roughhead out of FB. I think we also need a CFB, although Talia might be able to take this spot. Why don't we get Durdin at 5, then trade the Higgins compo and our 2nd rounder to get into the mid first round. There will be another good KPP there. This gets us 2 of the 3 we need.
Then go after a KPF of either Cameron, Lynch, Carlisle this year/next year. Pay extra to get them.... more people will sign up to be members to cover the expense.
I think we need a small forward. Dalh is probably going to spend too much time in the midfield, so we need a lightning fast small. Not a contested small, a speedy defensive pressure small.

Durdin, Lynch, Lever/Goddard and Jarrod Garlett IN?

Where can I sign my soul away to make this deal happen?!

 

[Gmod23]

Would we be worth looking at membery from the swans, he has put contract negotiations on hold. Or is he to similar to crameri and stringer?

Still worth a look. The guy is a true forward. Has good pressure skills and we could end up with a forward line with 4 tall mediums to constantly rotate around, exploiting their defensive match ups. Would trade a lot for Membrey & Mitchell.... certainly a 2nd rounder each if not more.
Players that know how to play as a forward are rare.... so many midfielder types just don't know leading patterns, work rate, positioning, etc.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Still worth a look. The guy is a true forward. Has good pressure skills and we could end up with a forward line with 4 tall mediums to constantly rotate around, exploiting their defensive match ups. Would trade a lot for Membrey & Mitchell.... certainly a 2nd rounder each if not more.
Players that know how to play as a forward are rare.... so many midfielder types just don't know leading patterns, work rate, positioning, etc.

Is listed at only 188cms, and a long way from being the focal point we need.

 

[Dav1d]

Does Clay Smith have Twitter? anyone know anything about how he is progressing?

All the Bontempelli videos and VFL stuff, I really hope after Sunday they do some videos focused on the other players more

 

[King Harold]

Does Clay Smith have Twitter? anyone know anything about how he is progressing?

All the Bontempelli videos and VFL stuff, I really hope after Sunday they do some videos focused on the other players more

I will find out for you mate , I have someone with a hotline to I'm.

 

[fargy]

Does Clay Smith have Twitter? anyone know anything about how he is progressing?

All the Bontempelli videos and VFL stuff, I really hope after Sunday they do some videos focused on the other players more

Not sure about twitter, but has Instagram. Just seems to be enjoying time with friends and his dog, oh and he won a couple of grand on the pokies

 

[Zephiisdaman]

I'm not a huge Reid fan (as I've made pretty clear), but I have to defend his output this year at the swans. I go to virtually every swans home game, and his role is utterly laughable. Woildnt come up on TV at all, but the guy genuinely gets yelled at if he gets too close to buddy and Tippett. He drags his man out to the boundary line about 70m from goal and parks himself there. He leads up the ground at times and gets to head inside 50 when buddy has a rest or tippett goes into the ruck. I would think he freakin hates it and it's a big part of why I think he'll request a trade.

I could definitely see him being a 30 goal a year guy for us as our focal point. He's better than jones (being able to run is huge) but not by a huge amount. He'd improve our side, but again, not by a massive amount. So as doggies has been saying, id take him, but only for the right price. Fwiw id give up 2 second rounders for him and I think the swans would take it.

I actually liked his game last night. Particularly the first half. Very hard for him when the Buddy show is in full swing. Add Tippett to that and Reid has little chance to really show his stuff.

 

[Gmod23]

Is listed at only 188cms, and a long way from being the focal point we need.

Not thinking of him as a focal point. There are only a few focal point type players in the AFL. But is still a great player that we could get.
We are not going to be able to get a KPF without giving up someone on our list. Getting him will help offset that future loss.

 

[StringyDog]

2nd rounder if not more for Membrey, * me dead I will go tony dean on the club if that happens

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Key difference between those guys is Reid is holding down a spot in the team whose just made the granny, and you could quite easily argue he's doing that while not even playing his true position. While Jones is holding down FF at Footscray and Grant is even struggling at that level. Again I'm not saying he's going to be any kind of saviour but you can rely on him to hold down a key post in the forward line and at least run out the full game and just give us something in that role. Which we can't rely on Jones for, or Redpath (not that he's been given a huge chance) or... I dunno pretty sad those are the only two names that come to mind when I think of our legitimate KPF stocks. I agree his year has been a bit disappointing for him but we've seen what he's capable of when being more of a focal point, he gives us what we need in the short term and I honestly reckon he's got quite a high ceiling. I also reckon Jones has a pretty high ceiling, but thats not working out for us currently so lets try something new?

Again I'm not trying to say we should sell the farm for him and I'm confident the club will not do that, but if he's available for the right price (big if, I don't know if he is or isn't but I'd say its a decent chance) we'd be mad to not be looking.

Very good post, although I would say that Jones could do Reids forward role at Sydney. The beauty of Reid and why the Swans rate him so highly is his ability to drop back. Jones when he has gone back has been downright embarrassing.
So Reid although not a 60 goal forward is much more valuable.