Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TedDougChris]

Wasnt a fan of redpath till yesterday
big body bloke that attack every contest he could get too
Cordy tap work in the 4th won us the game

And Redpath can take a mark with his hands out, meaning it's harder to spoil. And he's a decent set shot. Worth offering a one year, optional 2nd year deal to IMO...

 

[Dry Rot]

Does anyone know how much Jones wants? I heard it was a significant offer he has got from another team.

Which team? How much?

 

[Dog 36]

Grant is a difficult one. Has a year to go on contract. He had an interrupted pre-season also.

Grant offers something unique his hands and thinking on the ground and in heat of battle is great. He is a smart player. He was very good yesterday and with some clean finish he could have kicked 3 or 4 easily.

With a new forward coach maybe this will help him because in the correct structure he will be more than handy.

I would only trade him if we got an offer that was too good to refuse and that offer wont come IMO. I definitely don't want him traded for a late 3rd or 4th round pick I would want to keep him rather than that type of trade.

 

[TedDougChris]

Which team? How much?

I thought it was suggested it was the Saints, but not 100% (or even 1%) certain on this....

 

[Dogs Rule]

Grant is a difficult one. Has a year to go on contract. He had an interrupted pre-season also.

Grant offers something unique his hands and thinking on the ground and in heat of battle is great. He is a smart player. He was very good yesterday and with some clean finish he could have kicked 3 or 4 easily.

With a new forward coach maybe this will help him because in the correct structure he will be more than handy.

I would only trade him if we got an offer that was too good to refuse and that offer wont come IMO. I definitely don't want him traded for a late 3rd or 4th round pick I would want to keep him rather than that type of trade.

Some unforgivable misses though. Honestly, forwards should be kicking those with their eyes closed.

 

[Mofra]

he is guaranteed 2 years when drafted, only been here 1 year....

Not for mature agers in the draft - they can be placed on a 1 year contract (kids are offered 2 as standard).

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Maybe we forget about grant as a forward and try him else where??? just throwing it up as a sour bomb lolly. He could make a decent winger, and i was pretty impressed with some of his in and underwork during the game. Fast hands, contorts his body to get the ball out. Just a thought.

 

[Dog 36]

Some unforgivable misses though. Honestly, forwards should be kicking those with their eyes closed.

I know they were shocking and one was on the back of another so it made it worse.

His hands and football smarts are very good just hope he can get it together. At times and I go back to the Collingwood game his football smarts created goals for others.

 

[Gmod23]

I thought it was suggested it was the Saints, but not 100% (or even 1%) certain on this....

I have heard Saints but also heard Hawks & Freo were after him too.

 

[DognBones]

According to the list you posted before, you have 7 definites off the senior list (before Gia and Williams) - that should provide enough places to upgrade Redpath - as I'd suggest he'd be better than an 18 year old 75 kg KPF that we'd be likely to get at such a late round pick. Jong has been upgraded. Do the same to Redpath and you are still left with 7 selections for draft/trade, plus the 4 additional rookie spots.

I'd certainly keep Cordy, he has improved significantly this year, but he'll need to keep doing so to maintain a senior spot in the future. I agree on Fuller, as I stated a few pages back. That takes our options back to 6 picks for draft/trade, plus the rookies.

Perhaps there is a case for Redpath to be upgraded within the numbers freed up by delistings/trades. Will he be more than just backup? Not sure.
I think my 'tough call' list of 'offs' was a reaction to the euphoria of yesterday's win after which we are more likely to think positively about players who have not shown enough for success at AFL level. It's based a sense of perspective that we have a pretty ordinary list based on our ladder position and poor finish to the year. Yesterday was a fantastic achievement and I don't think anyone cheered louder than I, but, frankly many of those players who won the day are not going to win the war.

 

[Cudi]

Grant had more possessions than any Box Hill player besides Hallahan, on another day he kicks 4.1 instead of 1.4 and wins the medal.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Finally some sense prevailing

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Not for mature agers in the draft - they can be placed on a 1 year contract (kids are offered 2 as standard).

Some clarity at last. I don't recall this point being made in the past, whenever the discussion turned to Fullers place on the list next year.

 

[Mofra]

Some clarity at last. I don't recall this point being made in the past, whenever the discussion turned to Fullers place on the list next year.

The problem is it can be one or two - I don't actually know his contract status, just confirming that it is possible for mature players to be given a 1 year contract (e.g. Orren Stephenson).

There is nothing confirmed that he will go - the club seem to give players a bit of opportunity to come good and his year was ruined by a shoulder injury.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Does everyone think the club will wait a day and celebrate the VFL flag before announcing delistings?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Grant had more possessions than any Box Hill player besides Hallahan, on another day he kicks 4.1 instead of 1.4 and wins the medal.

Fair enough, but possessions these days don't tend to mean as much as they used to.

At VFL level he should be dominating week in, week out.

 

[TedDougChris]

Grant had more possessions than any Box Hill player besides Hallahan, on another day he kicks 4.1 instead of 1.4 and wins the medal.

And if the umpires weren't blind in 1997 or 2009..... ?? But they were....

I won't continue discussing because it's clear there are people with very different views and the last thing this board needs is further argumentation (except in the bickering thread ).

 

[TedDougChris]

Does everyone think the club will wait a day and celebrate the VFL flag before announcing delistings?

I'd hope they give the guys a couple of days at least...

 

[littlenails]

Apart from the retirees, my other 'offs' are:
Grant - too much wishful thinking for mine in this thread, he's had enough time to become a consistent AFL player, need to move on
Young - showed a lot of promise last season, but has seriously gone backwards, lacks confidence in most of what he does and won't improve
Goodes - if only he was drafted a few years ago, a fantastic workhorse at VFL level and gives his all, but at 31 next year, the clock has beaten him. Keep as top up player for Footscray.
Howard - continues to play contact-free football, will become a handy player in the SANFL
Fuller - has one more year of a contract but see no point in honouring it, pay him out
Cordy - yesterday provided enough evidence to indicate that the time is up for Ace, his ruck work has improved, but other areas of his game have not - trade or delist
Redpath - just can't see an AFL footballer in him, need to free up places on the rookie list
Austin - bit ambivalent about him because he does a reasonable job on most occasions, but won't improve and would need to be upgraded on to senior list - no
Greenwood - has come a long way since playing most of early footy for Williamstown 2nds. Love his endeavour and should be retained as top up for Footscray.
Lastly, Higgins - simply, we need the draft pick that his departure will provide

Keeps:
Jones - must be given one more year but whether he accepts a 1 year deal is problematical
Talia - the potential is still there
Pearce - struggling to find a senior position for him - maybe back pocket. Injuries have held him back.
Wood - not sure why he's not re-signed but it is ominous that he hasn't. Could be on the trade list.

Undecided:
Tutt - if he was on a stronger team's list he would be gone already. Could be worth a 1 year extension but no more.
Dickson - needs a huge pre-season to catch up lost ground, maybe the Gia replacement in forward pocket

I would agree with most of your delistings. We should be delisting as many players who will not have a future part in a premiership as is safe to do so. I mean to look at each player and consider their usefulness to the club in the long and short term.

We really do need to have a good shot at getting talented tall KP's to supplement our great midfield. We need to do that this year.

I think that maybe Grant, Goodes, Redpath and Tutt should be kept as depth players and give support to the Footscray side next year. I would like to keep Higgins. Cordy will be a good player yet. I don't know why you would keep Pearce, he did a few nice things in the GF, but doesn't show anything special. I think that Dickson has run his race.

 

[JJHunter]

Have a look at the few minutes after we fell 3 goals behind. We got 3 goals directly from centre clearances from Cordy's ruckwork and that got us back into the game.

There was also a shephard from Cordy that allowed Campbell time to pick it up and hit up Jones for another goal.

Four goals in short time Cordy directly contributed to without getting a possession.

I'm a Cordy knocker - I don't rate him at all and struggle to see him playing 100 games
HOWEVER

Totally agree with these points - I thought he did alot that had positive outcomes without getting much of it.
Im just not sure those things are things hell be able to produce at the higher level where you also need to mark and have a direct impact on games.
Crazy he cant as he has the tools - need only see how Brown goes about it at Nth - PLAY INFRONT !

 

[dogzrule]

I would agree with most of your delistings. We should be delisting as many players who will not have a future part in a premiership as is safe to do so. I mean to look at each player and consider their usefulness to the club in the long and short term.

We really do need to have a good shot at getting talented tall KP's to supplement our great midfield. We need to do that this year.

I think that maybe Grant, Goodes, Redpath and Tutt should be kept as depth players and give support to the Footscray side next year. I would like to keep Higgins. Cordy will be a good player yet. I don't know why you would keep Pearce, he did a few nice things in the GF, but doesn't show anything special. I think that Dickson has run his race.

The problem is most of our list would be depth players at Hawthorn or Sydney, we need to turn them over to improve

 

[_M_16_]

Does everyone think the club will wait a day and celebrate the VFL flag before announcing delistings?

I think they will wait until the end of this week. Perhaps as soon as Wednesday. Don't be surprised if we announce it the week after the Grand Final either

That being said, I do not think our main list changes will be as drastic as many people think. At this stage we have Gia and Williams gone, I think we will only cut another three or four. Obviously in the firing line is Young, and possible Goodes due to his age, and Howard. That will be five vacancies, plus Jong upgraded which leaves four. Possibly Higgins or Jones to go as well.

I think we will pick up about 4 to possibly 6 new players in the offseason, with a similar thing for next year with some senior players moved on and money freed up to make a big play or two on some free/agents or key players. Cant go overboard and cut 10 people at once this year as some want, just doesn't happen like that.

Not including the rookies though, we will have a whole new rookie list for once. Feels like we've had the same few rookies for a few years now

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The problem is most of our list would be depth players at Hawthorn or Sydney, we need to turn them over to improve

But then again, in an abstract way our "depth players" showed that they're the best among the Victorian clubs by winning the VFL
It's sort of a Catch-22 Our "depth" players need to improve in order for us to be a finals team, but our depth players are better depth players than other clubs.
Maybe we're in a strange situation where our, putting an arbitrary number, "rank" 11-22 players are a bottom 5 club, but our "rank" 20-35 players are as strong as any in the league. It's just that there's only 22 players on a team.

Maybe our "rank" 11-22 players are actually good, and they're poorly coached in the AFL compared to other AFL coaches, when you compare our VFL coach compared to other VFL coaches (plausible). Whether that be immediate on field coaching, how the coach positions players or just general game style that's drilled into players year round. (This seems most likely)
Maybe our "rank" 11-22 players are actually good, but there's an imbalance in the positions that they play, in that our VFL team does well because there's a better balance of the spread of talent over different positions. I think this is likely. We have some of the best KPP in the VFL (Talia, Redpath both dominated the year in the VFL) whilst we have Jong, Goodes etc. in the midfield, but in the AFL all our talent is concentrated to the midfield and 3rd tall forwards (Stringer, Crameri etc).

I'd say it's a combination of the above three things. The contribution of each one, though, we won't know. My guess it's something like 50% from the first one, 15% from the second one and 35% from the third one, as to why our VFL team had such a great season and our AFL team finished fifth-bottom.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

But then again, in an abstract way our "depth players" showed that they're the best among the Victorian clubs by winning the VFL
It's sort of a Catch-22 Our "depth" players need to improve in order for us to be a finals team, but our depth players are better depth players than other clubs.
Maybe we're in a strange situation where our, putting an arbitrary number, "rank" 11-22 players are a bottom 5 club, but our "rank" 20-35 players are as strong as any in the league. It's just that there's only 22 players on a team.

Maybe our "rank" 11-22 players are actually good, and they're poorly coached.
Maybe our "rank" 11-22 players are actually good, but there's an imbalance in the positions that they play, in that our VFL team does well because there's a better balance of the spread of talent over different positions.

I'd say it's a combination of the above three things. The contribution of each one, though, we won't know.

I see what you are saying, but our depth players are good VFL players. They don't seem to be able to bring that dominance in VFL to AFL.
Depth players are ones that should immediately be able to step into the seniors and do the job or show improvement. Ours don't.

 

[Mutt]

The problem is most of our list would be depth players at Hawthorn or Sydney, we need to turn them over to improve

And yet our depth players defeated Hawthorn's depth players in the Grand Final.