Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Roscoe_au]

I'm at the stage where I reckon we go to the draft and just get the best kids. There aren't any KPF or KPD on the open market this year. We spend another 12 months putting games into MacRae, Bonti, Libba, Dahl, Hunter Stringer, Campbell, Wallis and then hit Gold Coast, GWS or Essendon with the offer of a first rounder and a good kid that we've built from scratch and who has 20-40 senior games under his belt.

I don't want any more pain, but perhaps it's inevitable. I just hope the club can hold its nerve.

 

[Roscoe_au]

The interesting thing for me at this stage is the sheer volume of bodies we're going to need to add to the list. Of the 44 listed, 8 are gone so far, with Austin and greenwood highly likely in the gun, and Pearce only 50/50. So potentially 11 off the list (25%). That's huge.

And of the 33 left, we'd have clay smith unavailable for half the year, and 2 blokes that can't stay on the park at vfl level (fuller and prudden).

Anyone want a game at the western bulldogs??

Surprised that Redpath hasn't been elevated? I am...

 

[Roscoe_au]

Will say that I wasn't all that surprised that Foster wasn't nominated under the father son rule. I saw him after half time the other week and he was out on his feet. He may get Rookied, but he's a project player at best.

 

[fronkalicious]

I'm at the stage where I reckon we go to the draft and just get the best kids. There aren't any KPF or KPD on the open market this year. We spend another 12 months putting games into MacRae, Bonti, Libba, Dahl, Hunter Stringer, Campbell, Wallis and then hit Gold Coast, GWS or Essendon with the offer of a first rounder and a good kid that we've built from scratch and who has 20-40 senior games under his belt.

I don't want any more pain, but perhaps it's inevitable. I just hope the club can hold its nerve.

Now you're coming round roscoe. 2015 is another development year, like it or not. We might win fewer than 7 games. We might even finish in the bottom 3. It'll be ugly at times, but then the healing begins.

 

[Brassrazoo]

Surprised that Redpath hasn't been elevated? I am...

Me too

 

[TempleKelvington]

The list management equation.

(Players in) -(Players out) = overall result.

So far in this equation we only have the players out.

As much as I liked the guys that are going, and I saw some potential in a couple of them, If they don't like the way things are at the club or the contracts the clubs thinks are prudent then they are better off somewhere else and so are we. Perhaps the list being pruned by design or default is a good thing and time will tell. It didn't seem to hurt Brisbane last year and it was far worse there.

Let's see what we get in before we fully judge it one way or another. Remember the guys we are talking about here have not been able to perform consistently at AFL level with us. If we were losing some of our top line kids then I would be very concerned.

I just hope we can get decent compensation/trades for these guys. Chin up guys, exciting times!

 

[theAthenian]

smoke dreams...........

Some fellow posters have quoted that allowing tutt/jones/higgins to go could be a gutsy decision, as all 3 have checkered pasts as far as consistency goes. The point is relevant, good average footballers. Not the sort that you would want to rely on. I believe that this could be the case by the list managers and with the coaches blessing.

If so, what next?
Is this some poorly handled attempt to make a play for a proven "classical" forward who is young,has potential in buckets, and is tall (by league standards). To do this u need options, like draft picks and players open to moves. You especially need salary cap money by pruning contracts and simply not offering others a new one.

Which of course...

isn't something that goes down well with players, especially old guys who have to take a paycut to pay the marquee new guy. Could cause tension, some like tutt could get spooked by greedy managers and make a rash decision, anything's possible. Whatever happens from here on, the way we got to this point, simply is not flattering of the coaching team and Bmac at all. A great buddah would be publicly slapping those guys on the back and wishing them all the best, having previously told each one behind closed doors they were not required in 2015 and we would be trying to move them on accordingly.

The enigma that haunted the match day committee has spread to pre-season, when will the madness end...............

So, btw
was JFoster's draft pick needed elsewhere or is JFoster not AFL standard?

 

[GreatSouthWest]

This thread goes at a rate of like 30 pages a day in the off season, impossible to keep track of

You've got to try harder, otherwise you'll be offered a less than satisfactory contract.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I have been accused of looking at our players through rose tinted glasses, perhaps that is true to some extent. I am concerned at young players leaving after winning a grand final even though it was the VFL and not the AFL. But I wonder how much it comes down to their managers getting in their ear about looking for better opportunities elsewhere (and a nice commission cheque for the manager). At the end of the day all three players have been whipping boys on BF.

Moving on, the draft this year is not filled with elite A class talent, but it is long on good talent and sais to go deep at that level. We have also brought in our VFL side to develop players much faster, so perhaps these moves are not just from te players but t the club is happy to recruit based on its own selection criteria. I note that all players going were recruited in Rockets time.

 

[ErnieSigley]

This is not just about players leaving, its also about players not wanting to come to us.
Why would Patton a 21yo with less than 30 games reject a rumoured 900K for 5 year contract?
Why would Casboult, who has less runs on the board than Jones, knock back overs money from us?
Jaksch has said no too.
I bet there are more.

 

[doggies ftw]

This is not just about players leaving, its also about players not wanting to come to us.
Why would Patton a 21yo with less than 30 games reject a rumoured 900K for 5 year contract?
Why would Casboult, who has less runs on the board than Jones, knock back overs money from us?
Jaksch has said no too.
I bet there are more.

Patton did his 3rd serious knee injury, we withdraw the offer and he accepted anything he could get (I.e GWS' offer on the table).
Casboult is a mad Carlton supporter who always wanted to stay, we offered him money Carlton folded in and offered close enough to it for him to stay.
If you'd listen to good posters around here we said no to Jaksch after he was late to an interview and then interviewed badly as well.

C'mon Ernie try harder next time mate

 

[wayniac]

Now that Tutt is leaving can we stop labelling him a "speedster".

I didn't see the GF sprint heats but he wasn't in the final, so just how quick was he really?

Sad to see him leave but he was a bit soft.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Patton did his 3rd serious knee injury, we withdraw the offer and he accepted anything he could get (I.e GWS' offer on the table).
Casboult is a mad Carlton supporter who always wanted to stay, we offered him money Carlton folded in and offered close enough to it for him to stay.
If you'd listen to good posters around here we said no to Jaksch after he was late to an interview and then interviewed badly as well.

C'mon Ernie try harder next time mate

I will try as hard as you do.
It was widely reported Patton knocked the offer before he did his knee.
Casboult has been a whipping boy at carlton. As if he would stay for less money if our club was in a good way.
With Jaksch how can you be certain we rejected him first? He had many suitors.
All those others are practically knocking down the door now.

 

[King Harold]

One thing for sure , we won't be seeing a Footscray flag next year !

 

[doggies ftw]

I will try as hard as you do.
It was widely reported Patton knocked the offer before he did his knee.
Casboult has been a whipping boy at carlton. As if he would stay for less money if our club was in a good way.
With Jaksch how can you be certain we rejected him first? He had many suitors.
All those others are practically knocking down the door now.

You don't think it's weird that he was unsigned and woulda stayed that way until the end of the season but as soon as he did his knee he re-signed?
Casboult always wanted to stay FFS, he's a Carlton supporter and got offered similar money at a place he loves, why leave. Sure maybe if we were challenging for a flag he might have considered it but we're not?
It was widely reported that we were right in the mix for Jaksch, then one of the best journos in the bis reports we've gone cold on him and people are saying he interviewed badly, I think you'll find we said no.

Which over suitors? Harry O'Brien? Overpaid Spud Frawley? Levi Greenwood? Money hungry campaigner Mitch Clark? There's not exactly a lot out there this year, if no one fits what we're looking for let's not settle for whatever we can get thanks.

Besides, you have no clue whatsoever what's going on besides club doors, what just because it's not being thrown all over the media like facts means we're doing nothing? STFU and wait til after the trade period before spewing this s**t.

 

[Beasley]

For those saying Macca doesn't fit our 'culture', has lost the players or doesn't have a plan. I will say this - If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. A few prelims in 60 years is what we've got at the moment. I am happy for something different.

Something where Boyd and his turnovers in a game where most goals are scored by turnovers - are 'rewarded' with a base contract.

I am hoping and even looking forward to something different. Something new where all of this s**t is not tolerated. It seems we may beheading (pun intended) to that place.

Disarray, pigs arse - seems like a cold and absolutely ruthless decimation of mediocrity.

Now to find players that fit the profile for success. I am about as excited as I've ever been for a trade or draft period.

I can see where you are coming from ...... however some thing don't appear they will change because Boyd was given another bl#@dy contract. More "B' grade turnovers again next year!

 

[_Mike_]

It was widely rumored Patton knocked the offer before he did his knee.

Fixed... There was never any evidence that we actually did make an offer. Media speculated we did, and the fact was that GWS went on record to say that they would not trade him.

Dont mix gossip and innuendo with facts.

Casboult has been a whipping boy at carlton. As if he would stay for less money if our club was in a good way.

The Casboult is a Carlton boy through and through.. His decision was no different to any of our players who love the club staying on.

 

[_Mike_]

One thing for sure , we won't be seeing a Footscray flag next year !

Bit early to tell isnt it?

 

[Clay]

Now that Tutt is leaving can we stop labelling him a "speedster".

I didn't see the GF sprint heats but he wasn't in the final, so just how quick was he really?

Sad to see him leave but he was a bit soft.

Who are you to say?

Tutt is quick and he runs all day, both ways. Soft... Please.

I'm not exactly his biggest fan btw.

 

[fronkalicious]

You don't think it's weird that he was unsigned and woulda stayed that way until the end of the season but as soon as he did his knee he re-signed?
Casboult always wanted to stay FFS, he's a Carlton supporter and got offered similar money at a place he loves, why leave. Sure maybe if we were challenging for a flag he might have considered it but we're not?
It was widely reported that we were right in the mix for Jaksch, then one of the best journos in the bis reports we've gone cold on him and people are saying he interviewed badly, I think you'll find we said no.

Which over suitors? Harry O'Brien? Overpaid Spud Frawley? Levi Greenwood? Money hungry campaigner Mitch Clark? There's not exactly a lot out there this year, if no one fits what we're looking for let's not settle for whatever we can get thanks.

Besides, you have no clue whatsoever what's going on besides club doors, what just because it's not being thrown all over the media like facts means we're doing nothing? STFU and wait til after the trade period before spewing this s**t.

Patton wasn't unsigned. Was contracted through until end 2015 and just extended by another 2.

 

[doggies ftw]

Patton wasn't unsigned. Was contracted through until end 2015 and just extended by another 2.

Ah yeah my bad forgot about that. Point still stands though that GWS would have been wanting to extend his contract and Patton was happy waiting, It made sense for both club and player to extend the deal after his injury though.

 

[Doggies_13]

So we are losing Higgins, Jones and Tutt.
Tutt has speed can kick a goal but is a brain-dead decision maker - third rounder
Higgins classy player but has a heart the size of a pea and no defensive workrate - hopefully band 2 compo most likely band 3 pick 26
Jones think he can be a good player as a 2nd or third tall but he wants out so can't stop him - second rounder

We need to play hard ball with these guys demand the picks we want or send them to the pre-season draft let clubs take the chance they will be there. Why aren't we talking higgins up and what pick we should get like melbourne are i'm sick of us sitting back on our hands and getting bent over by compensation ala Ward.

We have to upgrade Redpath now, I would seriously be looking at McKernan as a delisted free agent and no not just because he is tall but because he is a 24yr old with 6 years of development who offers a second ruck forward option that we only really have Cordy on our list as Campbell is a number 1 ruckman. I would also be going for Jaksch and Reid offer Gws our second and Higgins compo for him and pick 20 then trade pick 20 for Reid, then we will have Jaksch Reid and Redpath as tall forwards, McKernan and Cordy as ruck forwards. Take pick 6 to the draft, still believe we should be trying to get Foster as a F/S. If Cooney wants to move i would let him go but wouldn't be letting Minson go anywhere, If cooney stays put Pearce on the rookie list and draft 3 new rookies.

Out
Jones - Carlton 2nd rounder
Tutt - Richmond/Melbourne Third rounder
Higgins - band 3 compo 26
Gia - Retired
Williams - Retired
Howard - Delisted
Goodes - Delisted
Young - Delisted
Cooney/Pearce(to rookie list)

Rookies
Austin - Delisted
Greenwood - Delisted

In:
Reid
Jaksch
McKernan
Redpath - Upgraded
Jong - Upgraded
Cordy - F/S 3rd rounder
Pick 5 - Wright please
Jones Pick, second rounder - Someone who slips through first round Lamb?
Tutt third rounder - Vojo Rainbow, Miller or similar

Round 1 Team
B: Morris Roughead Wood
HB: Murphy Talia Darley
C: Macrae Libba Bonts
HF: Crameri Reid Dahl
F: Stringer Jaksch Mckernan
Foll: Minson Griffen Wallis
INT: Hrovat Picken JJ Sub: Cooney
Emg: Stevens Roberts Boyd

 

[GreatSouthWest]

One thing for sure , we won't be seeing a Footscray flag next year !

Why do you say that? Did anyone really expect one this year? Borderline AFL/good VFL players have been shown the door, or opened it themselves. There's still going to be 15+ WB listed players in the VFL team in 2015, only now it'll truly be a development team.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

We have to upgrade Redpath now, I would seriously be looking at McKernan as a delisted free agent and no not just because he is tall but because he is a 24yr old with 6 years of development who offers a second ruck forward option that we only really have Cordy on our list as Campbell is a number 1 ruckman. I would also be going for Jaksch and Reid offer Gws our second and Higgins compo for him and pick 20 then trade pick 20 for Reid, then we will have Jaksch Reid and Redpath as tall forwards, McKernan and Cordy as ruck forwards. Take pick 6 to the draft, still believe we should be trying to get Foster as a F/S. If Cooney wants to move i would let him go but wouldn't be letting Minson go anywhere, If cooney stays put Pearce on the rookie list and draft 3 new rookies.



Round 1 Team
B: Morris Roughead Wood
HB: Murphy Talia Darley
C: Macrae Libba Bonts
HF: Crameri Reid Dahl
F: Stringer Jaksch Mckernan
Foll: Minson Griffen Wallis
INT: Hrovat Picken JJ Sub: Cooney
Emg: Stevens Roberts Boyd

McKernan straight in is a bit of a stretch mate, but i do see where you're coming from. I'd have the doctors and specialists triple check him over before any offer is put forward to him. He may be exactly the size and age we need - but he's yet to do anything on field of note with his best work being a 4-time Rehab Medallist at the Crows.

 

[cammo78]

So we are losing Higgins, Jones and Tutt.
Tutt has speed can kick a goal but is a brain-dead decision maker - third rounder
Higgins classy player but has a heart the size of a pea and no defensive workrate - hopefully band 2 compo most likely band 3 pick 26
Jones think he can be a good player as a 2nd or third tall but he wants out so can't stop him - second rounder

We need to play hard ball with these guys demand the picks we want or send them to the pre-season draft let clubs take the chance they will be there. Why aren't we talking higgins up and what pick we should get like melbourne are i'm sick of us sitting back on our hands and getting bent over by compensation ala Ward.

We have to upgrade Redpath now, I would seriously be looking at McKernan as a delisted free agent and no not just because he is tall but because he is a 24yr old with 6 years of development who offers a second ruck forward option that we only really have Cordy on our list as Campbell is a number 1 ruckman. I would also be going for Jaksch and Reid offer Gws our second and Higgins compo for him and pick 20 then trade pick 20 for Reid, then we will have Jaksch Reid and Redpath as tall forwards, McKernan and Cordy as ruck forwards. Take pick 6 to the draft, still believe we should be trying to get Foster as a F/S. If Cooney wants to move i would let him go but wouldn't be letting Minson go anywhere, If cooney stays put Pearce on the rookie list and draft 3 new rookies.

Out
Jones - Carlton 2nd rounder
Tutt - Richmond/Melbourne Third rounder
Higgins - band 3 compo 26
Gia - Retired
Williams - Retired
Howard - Delisted
Goodes - Delisted
Young - Delisted
Cooney/Pearce(to rookie list)

Rookies
Austin - Delisted
Greenwood - Delisted

In:
Reid
Jaksch
McKernan
Redpath - Upgraded
Jong - Upgraded
Cordy - F/S 3rd rounder
Pick 5 - Wright please
Jones Pick, second rounder - Someone who slips through first round Lamb?
Tutt third rounder - Vojo Rainbow, Miller or similar

Round 1 Team
B: Morris Roughead Wood
HB: Murphy Talia Darley
C: Macrae Libba Bonts
HF: Crameri Reid Dahl
F: Stringer Jaksch Mckernan
Foll: Minson Griffen Wallis
INT: Hrovat Picken JJ Sub: Cooney
Emg: Stevens Roberts Boyd

We are not interested in Jaksch.