Mega Thread The Footy Dept Thread Part I - #SackHardwick or #StandByDimma?

[pebblestone]

Anyone else listen to the superfooty podcast? Mick warner was saying around the league rival clubs know if you shut down our 3 best players you win the game. Was also toled by a rival Victorian clubs analyst that richmond is the easiest team to plan against. Not a great rep to have

Are these things player issues or coaching? I'd suggest the second would be a coaching issue, but not certain the first point is.

 

[Deanos]

 

[1980]

The list at the moment although not great is much much better than what Wallace and Hardwick inherited. Frawley got a decentish list up in 2001. Problem was the club got to liking the taste of their own bath water and thought the list was way better than what it really was.

I always saw Frawley as a great inspiration coach who was tactically limited and Wallace as a decent tactical coach that (along with thinking he and Miller were the second coming) never really had the players.

The list Hardwick inherited was light years ahead of the list Wallace inherited. Anyone arguing that Hardwick needs more than 5 years to rebuild becuase the list was so bad is kidding themselves. Or they should argue that we should have given wallet 7.5 years to rebuild.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Anyone else listen to the superfooty podcast? Mick warner was saying around the league rival clubs know if you shut down our 3 best players you win the game. Was also toled by a rival Victorian clubs analyst that richmond is the easiest team to plan against. Not a great rep to have

So that's the reason why we go 0-22 every year.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I call bullshit on Mick. Round one we had the big three shut out and we still won by 5 goals.

By the way, you could say pretty much about any team that if you shut out their best three players you are likely to win.

Also, BS about being the easiest to plan against. Brisbane, Carlton, Gold coast are all awful. There are plenty more too.

I know that's not exactly the company we want to keep and we aren't going great- but the way people are carrying on you'd think we'd be dead last!

Do you also notice that you never hear anything said about Richmond when we win but when we lose everyone suddenly becomes an expert on the Tigers and were the topic of conversation everywhere.
I bet if any other club in the mid table range was having the injuries we are having that it would be getting used as an excuse by all and sundry, I know when watching other teams play who have players out the commentators never shut up about it when the team is losing but when it's Richmond, it's crickets time.

 

[I Rock]

The list Hardwick inherited was light years ahead of the list Wallace inherited. Anyone arguing that Hardwick needs more than 5 years to rebuild becuase the list was so bad is kidding themselves. Or they should argue that we should have given wallet 7.5 years to rebuild.

Not only did Hardwick get a better list, he also got a much better football department. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of Wallace's time at Richmond. But it's no doubt his hill was a lot steeper he needed to push s**t up.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

I agree with a few posters here that sacking Hardwick at this point in the season does no one any good. The club backed him in at the start of the year and need to see it through until at least the bye before deciding the next course of action. As EAD stated he may well blitz the next six games and be in a strong positio. Cannot see this happening myself I think the best we will do is 2 wins, more than likely only 1.

There are several reasons why if it was my decision I'd currently be looking for a replacement already.

1. Consistency of effort - just not there to an acceptable standard

2. The coaching staff completely botched last pre season, spent most of the time practising a game plan that is now outdated and we don't have players capable to implement it anyway. Leaving the players confused and lacking confidence, no longer playing on instinct

3. Training standards - several players stated half way through last year that training standards dropped and I think it was big Ivan who apparently took the Bull by the horns and refocused the player group in this aspect. This should be a complete embarrassment to the coaching group.

4. Too matey matey with the players, neve works over a long period of time. You can come in and be a complete campaigner at the start then slowly become more relaxed but not the other way round, the players always end up letting you down.

There are 3 things that every successful side, in every sporting competition in the world does.
-work at least as hard as the opposition (more often harder) 95% of the time
-do the simple things really well over and over and over again
- have a simple gameplan that all the players understand and believe in.

Unless your doing these 3 things you have no chance of winning anything. Our coaching staff should be focusing on these things and nothing else until you get this right. The hardest thing in football is to keep keeping it simple, this goes for players and coaches. From my viewpoint our coaching group have no grasp of this concept whatsoever. Hardwick made errors last year so basic and fundamental that for me there would be no return.

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

I was about to say 'fair comment' then saw it was from Thomas.. Prob wants a job

 

[Tiger Toffee]

The way people on here and in the media are carrying on you would think we lost to Melbourne with our full strength side on the park, obviously ignoring the fact that Richmond went into the game with the 13th oldest side and 14th most experienced side in the comp after being 7th oldest and 9th experienced in round 3. Richmond went into the game with 1484 games experience, GWS had more games experience than us in round 4 FFS.
We had 1116 games of experience either out injured or getting match fitness in the vfl after injury unavailable for selection for the Melbourne game which I'm guessing will be ignored when it comes to Richmond bashing time.

 

[mondi]

It's both the coach and the players.. The coach is supposed to coach the players though.. 6 years on and we still can't hit a target. If you can't kick it to a bloke 15 away on his own then who's telling them to do that? and why is that player still playing seniors? That's all I've seen for the last two years.. Bashing heads against walls.

 

[mondi]

Hardwick has been great for us up until the last two seasons where we've become stagnant with 0 improvement.. Had some lucky wins along the way. Port is our barometer, we were neck and neck a couple years back with youth and performance fairly even (us a bit further ahead performance wise) now look where they are. Ken Hinkley have much to do with that? Hell yes. i don't want to watch the dogs and the other bottom dwellers pass us. I want success at some point in my life time and I just don't see Dimma providing that. He's a nice guy but I think thats his biggest problem.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Anyone else listen to the superfooty podcast? Mick warner was saying around the league rival clubs know if you shut down our 3 best players you win the game. Was also toled by a rival Victorian clubs analyst that richmond is the easiest team to plan against. Not a great rep to have

Hardly surprising...

 

[scarecrow2k1]

Do you also notice that you never hear anything said about Richmond when we win but when we lose everyone suddenly becomes an expert on the Tigers and were the topic of conversation everywhere.
I bet if any other club in the mid table range was having the injuries we are having that it would be getting used as an excuse by all and sundry, I know when watching other teams play who have players out the commentators never shut up about it when the team is losing but when it's Richmond, it's crickets time.

Agree. Essendon lost again but there's no bad press (I know their wins are better). Carlton are a much bigger shambles. St Kilda too. But Richmond being a shambles sells papers, and our supporters eat it up.

 

[tigerninja]

Agree. Essendon lost again but there's no bad press (I know their wins are better). Carlton are a much bigger shambles. St Kilda too. But Richmond being a shambles sells papers, and our supporters eat it up.

There was no expectations on carlton or st kilda.

Truth is media expected us to be better, a lot better than what we've shown.

 

[TigerImposter]

I would like to have Armatage in the middle for hardness frankly.

No I meant Mitch Robinson

 

[TigerAndy]

Agree. Essendon lost again but there's no bad press (I know their wins are better). Carlton are a much bigger shambles. St Kilda too. But Richmond being a shambles sells papers, and our supporters eat it up.

That is because the clubs you mentioned climb out of the abyss every so often and command some respect. We have been the laughing stock of the VFL/AFL for 35 years. Some of these clubs might be a shambles right but our club has been since the early 80's. Every time we look like we are on the right track we do something to mke the footy world and often our supporters think nothing has chnged. We have come along way in the last 2-3 years but we still have not earned the respect we desperately crave.
Its no wonder the footy world shakes its head at us with some of the things we do and lack of intensity we provide.
In saying that while I am super disappointed and disheartened by the start we have had I dont think it serves the clubs interests to sack a coach in round 4 of a season when you sit 2-2 (even though we have not played a great game yet)

 

[DrMike]

Pretty much where I'm sitting at the moment, doesn't get many more chances
Win/Loss isn't the issue for me given some of the mitigating circumstances, I'd prefer a win and we should get a win but it's the effort of the playing group that's my biggest issue

 

[wegetpumped]

The way people on here and in the media are carrying on you would think we lost to Melbourne with our full strength side on the park, obviously ignoring the fact that Richmond went into the game with the 13th oldest side and 14th most experienced side in the comp after being 7th oldest and 9th experienced in round 3. Richmond went into the game with 1484 games experience, GWS had more games experience than us in round 4 FFS.
We had 1116 games of experience either out injured or getting match fitness in the vfl after injury unavailable for selection for the Melbourne game which I'm guessing will be ignored when it comes to Richmond bashing time.

From what you have been posting i gather what you are trying to say is our list is bad. I agree now lets give dimma another 6 year's for another rebuild apparently his first go didn't work.

 

[Hong Kong Phooey]

From what you have been posting i gather what you are trying to say is our list is bad. I agree now lets give dimma another 6 year's for another rebuild apparently his first go didn't work.

Lets think seriously about what you just said, has it been 6 years? has he had all the required draft choices available to him? Has he made the right decisions? so on and so on...


Contact the club and give your thoughts,do it!!

 

[TigerTime88]

There are three things that plauge Damien Hardwick as a coach and he gives himself little chance:

1. He believes in the battler too much
He continually puts his faith in the absolute battlers of the world. Steve Morris is the perfect example. He was so poor as a back pocket in 2014 that Dimma tried to re-invent him just to keep him in the 22. Here is a thought.....DROP HIM and then DELIST HIM. Nathan Gordon is another who is ok at best but really only a 35-40 player who should play in the VFL and come in when we are really struggling. At the moment he is a permanent fixture in our 22. Sam Lloyd kicks a nice goal but he is too slow and really his role and Steve Morris need to be combined. You can't have a player like Lloyd in the side unless he is a quick harassing forward pocket as well as a goal kicker. Then there are other battlers that were once good players and are now past it like Chris Newman. The fact he played round 1 after heart problems for two weeks was a joke. Guys like Ben Lennon are running around the VFL after solid NAB form. People say his defensive side isn't there yet....well neither is Gordons/Llloyds or Newmans anymore. I would prefer a guy in the 22 who has stupid amounts of talent to be coached into playing defensively than these names above. Would love to see Corey Ellis get a gig as sub this week.

2. His game plan doesn't revolve around tackling
Hardiwcks philosophy on pressure is that tackling isn't the only way....I agree however it is definitely the main factor. We have been a poor tackling side the whole time he has been coach.

3. He continually says "we're a better side than this...our best can beat anyone on our day"

This is true Dimma but the problem is we play our best 1 every 4 games if we are lucky and our worst drops to the quality of a bottom 6 side. So although we might maul Geelong this week we will lose to the Saints. I don't care about our best for now...give us consistent.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Frawley we were told needed 5 years to rebuild given the state of the list he inherited.

Really?When was this after the 2001 finals?So at a guess 2003? lol

Now Hardwick needed 5 years to rebuild because of the state of the list Wallace left him after his 5 year rebuild.

And in 5 years time you'll be back in here saying that the next coach inherited a poor list from Hardwick.

LoL.Read my post in its entire context.lol

 

[Juddernaut08]

Melbourne are no longer the shitkickers of the league and will surprise many this year. This thread is very premature.

 

[The full package]

The first coach interviewed should be Matthew Knights. He built the current Bomber side and received no credit for it only hate from the druggo supporters. Where is he nowadays?, have not seen or heard anything from him since that cheating slimy prick stole his job and team he'd assembled.

I think he is the Cats reserve coach

 

[1980GFVideo]

I think he is the Cats reserve coach

Yeah his success with Geelong reserves is impressive and you just need to look into the Geelong box to see him on the weekend as he sits up with Chris Scott.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Do I want Hardwick sacked right now? No I don't. You don't sack a coach this early in the year unless they have royally stuffed up, i.e. engaged in Wayne Carey type behavior or has lost all 4 games by 20+ goals.

Hardwick has done neither of these things to my knowledge so he continues, however the next 6 weeks are massive. If we go 0-6, 1-5 or-2-4 during the this time then questions must be asked about whether Hardwick is in fact the man to take us to where we all want to see the club get to. He might not be and that is nothing to be ashamed of, plenty of other coaches have gone to clubs with the expectation that they would take them to the promised land and failed. Some of these coaches are much more highly regarded than Hardwick ever will be. Others weren't as good as they thought they were and were quickly found out and spat out the other side.

The fact is Hardwick is responsible for Richmond once again finding itself back among the leagues better teams, we're not the powerhouse on field side like a Hawthorn or Sydney or Fremantle are, but we're strong off field with upgraded facilities, improved membership/profits/crowds. So maybe just maybe this is the best that Hardwick can do, take the club as far as he has, but when it comes to taking the final couple of steps it's just that little bit too far to go.

Then again maybe what Hardwick needs to do is, as I suggested in a couple of other posts, go back to basics with regards to the way we structure up and play the game and let these players that he says can coach themselves play. In the meantime coach those that aren't that naturally talented so that they can assist the stars in winning games. Let some of the emotion back into the team as it seems to me that our list plays better when it rides the wave of excitement.

As far as his coaching career goes, as I said above if we don't win at least 3 of the next 6 games and hit the bye with a 5-5 record, it might just be time for the club to take a look at whether Hardwick is the man. But what happens if we go 4-2, 5-1 or an unlikely 6-0. What happens to all the Hardwick can't coach comments? Do they suddenly become irrelevant, do we go down the path of saying well he got lucky and start the quest to change coaches. Personally if Hardwick can win 4, 5 or 6 of the next 6 games then he deserves to see out his contract, which is until the end of 2016. As I posted before the start of the season, this year was going to be a year of change as we looked to rejig the side in an attempt to take the next steps in our chase for a flag. Winning 4, 5 or 6 games with a relatively inexperienced side taking the field will show me that Hardwick can in fact coach.

Some might say that is sitting on the fence and I'm hedging my bets. Well a coach that took us from the mess that we were 2009-early 2010 to a back to back finals side in 2013-2014 deserves more than a couple of abysmal performances before we make the decision to remove him. Once again the next 6 weeks are massive.

Sound reasoning IMO