Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[Whiskers]

I'm not so sure.

From this point on booing AG will be universally classified as racist, so every fan has an opportunity to make a stand.

I think Geelong will stand up and show what a champion club they are.

Geez I hope 25,000 people all share the same viewpoint and understanding.
You see, that's unlikely. Let's say we do a good job at cutting the booing down and only get 1-2000 people booing. It's still going to sound bad and our supporter base will cop it.

 

[DrEvil_]

Honestly this sort of ad hominem gets you and us nowhere. Why is it mutually inconsistent to say that white Australia has brought some positives to Australia for its indigenous community as well as negatives ? That's what Goodes says in his speech for crying out loud.

Indigenous culture was sustainable. Elements of indigenous law were brutal (although while spearing was going on we spent a good deal of time hanging people by the neck until they are dead). Their level of development if by development we mean formal education and scientific progress was limited. But anyone who has studied tribal cultures sociologically knows that tribal communities are also very far advanced over western civilisation on the hierarchy of needs for their local area - ask William Buckley if you doubt me.

But clearly western civilisation, and the population of Europe was such that Australia, along with almost all of the rest of the world was going to be conquered.

I don't really see why there is such a debate here though. Maybe Peter garretts song short memory is just a 1980s hit but it broadly shows the devastation to indigenous peoples all over the world from the Wests civilising ways. And sure before that there were also other cultures that had been devastated (there was a reason that the local tribes surrounding the Aztecs were only too willing to help Cortes).

But again I don't see the big issue - Goodes is legitimately raising the impact on his community of the west and saying it hasn't been a bed of roses for 200 years. Why is that so bloody hard for some people to listen to ?

I think you kind of missed my point. I am actually saying we are not doing enough for the aborigines in this country.

 

[nineteen eighty]

He said there was an epidemic of violence against women in Australia.

He put the boot into Eddie. He said casual racism was pervasive in Australia.

The gay innuendo on a Collingwood poster that he found offensive. Had a hissy fit.

The Seedsman lesbian nickname controversy.

Having a meltdown and taking leave for a few days.

Writing a letter to Obama.

Need I go on?

A lot of those actions are self flagellation as I said previously.

I agree with him that there is casual racism pervasive in Australia. Definitely not as bad as what it used to be but I also lived in Redfern for 5 years until very recently and experienced it first hand (no I'm not an aborigine...nor a hipster before someone pipes in).

And is he wrong about violence against women in AU? There was a speech on the weekend that addressed the same thing that was covered in the media. Is it an epidemic...yeah maybe use of the wrong word. Still a serious issue though.

 

[melbournehammer]

I think you kind of missed my point. I am actually saying we are not doing enough for the aborigines in this country.

No I got your point. Even if it is made with the one liners and laced with irony. It's the rabid masses that I'm appealing to.

 

[Whiskers]

I'm bored with this discussion and, in particular the inability of people to deal with facts at their fingertips - but why don't you google jake niall Adam Goodes May 2014 and see how you go

Afterwards feel free to think whatever thoughts you want, but don't let the facts get in the way

Ok Thanks, I read the article.
A section of the Essendon crowd booed him, not the whole ground however like it is now.
That is my point, it was never this hysterical where almost every opposition fan boo's him now until the media fuelled race angle after round 8.
I'm well aware some fans have disliked him previously. Goodes getting booed by a section of Essendon fans doesn't prove it's race related.

 

[King Frederick]

A lot of those actions are self flagellation as I said previously.

I agree with him that there is casual racism pervasive in Australia. Definitely not as bad as what it used to be but I also lived in Redfern for 5 years until very recently and experienced it first hand (no I'm not an aborigine...nor a hipster before someone pipes in).

And is he wrong about violence against women in AU? There was a speech on the weekend that addressed the same thing that was covered in the media. Is it an epidemic...yeah maybe use of the wrong word. Still a serious issue though.

It may be true, exaggerated or false.

The point is he's outspoken and he challenges people with what some would call unsettling truths. Like Goodes.

They are treated differently though.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Ok Thanks, I read the article.
A section of the Essendon crowd booed him, not the whole ground however like it is now.
That is my point, it was never this hysterical where almost every opposition fan boo's him now until the media fuelled race angle after round 8.
I'm well aware some fans have disliked him previously. Goodes getting booed by a section of Essendon fans doesn't prove it's race related.

Agree. It may have had racist overtones to begin with but it has moved on to the vocal majority jumping onto a bandwagon and bullying a bloke. His personality where it is allowing it to get to him is fueling it as the masses sense a weakness and go even harder.

 

[nineteen eighty]

It may be true, exaggerated or false.

The point is he's outspoken and he challenges people with what some would call unsettling truths. Like Goodes.

They are treated differently though.

Yes. See point above. It has become a spectator sport now. There may be some racism involved now (zoo comment from the weekend) but by and large it's crowds having fun. They can see that it affects him so they go harder. And each week it gets worse for him.

 

[Monkey King]

The one that makes me shake my head is when somehow blame Goodes and his AOTY for kick starting this groundswell of sentiment.

Here's the thing. Goodes didn't ask for that award. AOTY is a political award, absolutely; in this case, it was awarded in the name of a government which probably felt it had some work to do in terms of its image in relation to Aboriginal issues in general. Was he the right recipient? I don't know, but he didn't ask to be the one and he was hardly in a position to say no; indeed, the outcry would probably have been even greater.

And considering some of the other recipients of the AOTY over the years, I'm not sure he stands out as an outstandingly bad choice anyway. In fact, he flat out doesn't.

The one area where I don't think Goodes has helped himself is how he's articulated himself. What he's said, viewed in totality, isn't necessarily wrong, but he doesn't seem to be the type to dilute his message for his audience and that's probably rubbed people up the wrong way.

Quite simply, my view is that the peculiarly Australian mien that seems to predominate- "shut up and get on with it"- is exactly the sort of thing that will clash with the message that Goodes, I think, wants to get across- that Australia as a nation still has a lot of work to do in confronting the darker (no pun intended) aspects of its past. I don't think Australians, as a rule, like the less palatable aspects of the nation's history being forensically examined and nor do they like the fact we've still got much work to do in eradicating prejudice being examined either.

Anyhow, I've said elsewhere that I suspect this situation won't be properly resolved until Goodes retires because, sadly, it's now become stuck in a vicious cycle- a loop if you like- that will keep feeding itself until Goodes no longer appears on the football field.

And that's bloody sad for someone who, for all his occasional onfield faults, is still a champion of the game and for someone who has undoubtedly done a great service in the long run, even if it's not yet apparent, to his own community in getting these issues more into the public domain.

It really is sad.

A lot of good points in this post.

 

[melbournehammer]

Ok Thanks, I read the article.
A section of the Essendon crowd booed him, not the whole ground however like it is now.
That is my point, it was never this hysterical where almost every opposition fan boo's him now until the media fuelled race angle after round 8.
I'm well aware some fans have disliked him previously. Goodes getting booed by a section of Essendon fans doesn't prove it's race related.

Look maybe nothing will. I've expressed my view on the matter elsewhere and on a number of occasions (circa page 200-210 on this thread amongst other places).

But I can assure you as a Melbourne based swans fan it has been pretty consistent for over 12 months, driven principally by the Hawks - whose fans were criticised by Erin reilly (at least I think that is her name and I can't really remember after the gf) but it pre- existed that.

To use the metaphor - the cork in the bottle has been released and now everything is coming out. I don't really like what I am seeing and I really wish goodes had pre announced his intention on the swans website or elsewhere that he was going to do the flying boomerangs dance (in retrospect) because maybe that would prevent a small part of the Goodes brought it on himself group having something to hang their hat on (to mix my metaphor).

But having looked at this thread and the Facebook and the comments to the panahi and Devine pieces there is a great untapped part of the Australian community who just want to be able to complain about all of the money spent on indigenous people and not be confronted by anything which suggests that Australia is not the greatest country on earth.

I've said elsewhere that I was born with the best ticket in life - white well educated good family in Australia - but I know there but for the grace of God go I - and I am for making a great country even better. Why this message can't get out is beyond me

In any case and speaking a little more flippantly - the hatred from the Hawks crowd directed towards the cats and now the swans ought make us more like brothers - we could united against eg common enemy - the people's front of Judea !! Maybe that might get those remaining 1000-2000 cats fans at kardinia to hush up. I remember being there in 2011 when we knocked you off and a lot of your fans at the final siren saying that his sort of loss (like port in 2007) is what you need for a finals campaign. So maybe you owe us for the 2011 flag and that might allow a positive feel for the night.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Um, because a Muslim is not classified as a race.

I think you will find that most modern day anthropologists believe that all living humans (homo sapiens sapiens) belong to only one race - the human race

In fact the term "race" is being dropped in favour of words like populations or peoples or ethnicity or communities

 

[frednirk]

Aboriginal Australia had incredible wisdom and ways of connecting to the land. It would be a beautiful thing to learn about.

And of violent barbarism, paedophilia etc.

It wasn't all wise bearded sages sitting around campfires pondering the universe.

 

[momentbymoment]

Maybe you should go live in a remote community for a while, and then decide what is more important. I'd like to see you walk up to a kid going blind with trachoma and tell him his healthy relation with the land is more important.

The reality is that most of the world lives in extreme poverty and once peak oil and climate change kicks in, the suffering they experience will hit our shores.

That may be the point where we start to re-evaluate what is important.

 

[DesertRoo]

I think you will find that most modern day anthropologists believe that all living humans (homo sapiens sapiens) belong to only one race - the human race

In fact the term "race" is being dropped in favour of words like populations or peoples or ethnicity or communities

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... There's no such thing as racism as there's only one race?

 

[threesixpio]

From 10 rows back how would you suggest the average fan should engage with Mr Goodes in meaningful sophisticated dialog to get their message to him ? Would some sort of war dance be more appropriate? Or are you advocating extra time added on each quarter for some chin wagging with adam?

I spose I'm saying the issue of racial politics is difficult to communicate effectively at a footy ground. Booing a black bloke because of his stance on racial politics kind of has a bad look to it. Better off questioning the way he goes about it through other forums. Yeah? (Man my point is so bloody simple it's like some of you guys just want to be dumb).

 

[momentbymoment]

And of violent barbarism, paedophilia etc.

It wasn't all wise bearded sages sitting around campfires pondering the universe.

Our society has done its fair share of rape and pillage albeit on a much larger scale. Let's not judge by the lowest common denominator.

The indigenous populations around the world have a lot to teach us about living sustainably on this planet. Are we interested in listening?

 

[momentbymoment]

Geez I hope 25,000 people all share the same viewpoint and understanding.
You see, that's unlikely. Let's say we do a good job at cutting the booing down and only get 1-2000 people booing. It's still going to sound bad and our supporter base will cop it.

If 23,000 people make a stand the 1-2000 will shut up pretty quick.

Your club and players are going to fly the flag of tolerance. Why not the fans as well?

 

[bombersfan4000]

Adam Goodes' mother was a member of the Stolen Generation and her pain from that is still ongoing. It's NOW you dumb campaigner.

Wow I'm sure he is not the only one! The major of people's parents and grand parents have been effected by wars & tragic events

Goodes just continues to prove him self a flog. Claims we are all racists and we all invaded his people lands. Then greatfully stands up and accepts the Australian of the year award.

 

[threesixpio]

Our society has done its fair share of rape and pillage albeit on a much larger scale. Let's not judge by the lowest common denominator.

The indigenous populations around the world have a lot to teach us about living sustainably on this planet. Are we interested in listening?

Noone is booing Adam Goodes due to race but but but his people are barbaric paedophiles...(?!!) Wow

Comment not directed at you (the person you quoted)

 

[threesixpio]

Wow I'm sure he is not the only one! The major of people's parents and grand parents have been effected by wars & tragic events

Goodes just continues to prove him self a flog. Claims we are all racists and we all invaded his people lands. Then greatfully stands up and accepts the Australian of the year award.

What's the issue with saying white people invaded. They did. Australia Day was Gov Phillip setting up an invasion to make prisons. It's a pretty shitty day. Can I be deported now (I'm at least 5th or 6th generation though - Britain won't have me back since they joined the EU in the 70s)

 

[momentbymoment]

Noone is booing Adam Goodes due to race but but but his people are barbaric paedophiles...(?!!) Wow

European societies have done their share of barbaric things - Hitler, Stalin, The history of colonialism. Do you really want me to go on?

I never said indigenous communities were barbaric pedophiles. I just won't pretend that they were perfect or that any society is perfect.

 

[threesixpio]

European societies have done their share of barbaric things - Hitler, Stalin, The history of colonialism. Do you really want me to go on?

I never said indigenous communities were barbaric pedophiles. I just won't pretend that they were perfect or that any society is perfect.

Not you mate - the person you quoted. Sorry. No offence

 

[momentbymoment]

What's the issue with saying white people invaded. They did. Australia Day was Gov Phillip setting up an invasion to make prisons. It's a pretty shitty day. Can I be deported now (I'm at least 5th or 6th generation though - Britain won't have me back since they joined the EU in the 70s)

This is pretty much how it is.

Not sure why anyone needs to be offended as we all know that the boat people arrived in 1788. It's not a secret.

 

[kneecapper]

Wow I'm sure he is not the only one! The major of people's parents and grand parents have been effected by wars & tragic events

Goodes just continues to prove him self a flog. Claims we are all racists and we all invaded his people lands. Then greatfully stands up and accepts the Australian of the year award.

I have news for you: you are a racist. And don't bother responding because you're on ignore.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

let her run Mods! its working a treat. they just keep digger that hole deeper. nice work