List Mgmt. 2014 Free Agency, draft and trades news and discussion **Not the trade hypotheticals thread"

[Thaihawk]

I concur with this statement but Birch is an elite half back flanker, they are not so easy to find......he has been an up start in our side since 18......it just doesn't sit right with me that he wouldn't be finishing his career with our football club.

I second this dipper. There are some players who, in my opinion just are,t put on the table, and Birch is one of those. Be bleeds brown and gold, and if the club threw his namu up, then what little is left of loyalty would be killed by the club.

 

[threesixpio]

Having Hartung, Smith and Hill might suggest a trade of one of them. I'd hate that though. Maybe having all three is part of the plan. If one went it would likely be Smith being the oldest

 

[threesixpio]

But if there is any chance of Danger I'm keen

 

[Steven Tyler]

Did you miss the part about adding to our depth with the inevitable retirements of Hodge, Sewell, Mitchell, Burgoyne etc?
In case you aren't up to speed, the strongest teams in the competition are those with the deepest list and if you are happy to have Hallahan, Simpkin, Woodward, Langford, Hartung, Whitecross, Anderson, Shiel and Ross leading our midfield brigade for the next decade then so be it but I'm pretty confident the club will be thinking otherwise.

As a side note, when was the last positive post you wrote in reply to another posters thread? You seem hell bent on trying shoot everyone down that airs their thoughts but don't seem to have much in the way of quality to add yourself? That's just the way you come across.

It was a genuine question, pull you're head in!
Throwing up names of players from other clubs who can't get a game doesn't constitute quality posting either!
So you want to add Thurlow, Martin and Lyons in, along with the players you mentioned, to lead our midfield for the next decade?

We've traded for depth twice, Cheney and Spangher, because they can play KPD, and key defenders/forwards are very hard to replace if injured, so are good backup/insurance.

Can you name me someone else on our list that we traded for who isn't in our best 22?

I wouldn't be trading for a midfielder from another club when we have similar already at BHH

If you were upset by my question then please accept my deepest apologies and buy yourself a nice new box of cleenex and send me the bill!

 

[play2win]

This years free agency list is a bucket of vomit compared to what is 'available' next year. So unless we can prise one of them away early with a trade i agree with list manager and look to improve our depth this year (and bid up the cost of this years free agents).

In terms of trading out a quality half backer, you'd only consider that if it was mutually agreeable. Otherwise I wouldn't consider trading out birch, suckers etc. Us big footy posters would have no idea on the circumstances behind that and can only hypothesise.

 

[Davo23]

It was a genuine question, pull you're head in!
Throwing up names of players from other clubs who can't get a game doesn't constitute quality posting either!
So you want to add Thurlow, Martin and Lyons in, along with the players you mentioned, to lead our midfield for the next decade?

We've traded for depth twice, Cheney and Spangher, because they can play KPD, and key defenders/forwards are very hard to replace if injured, so are good backup/insurance.

Can you name me someone else on our list that we traded for who isn't in our best 22?

I wouldn't be trading for a midfielder from another club when we have similar already at BHH

If you were upset by my question then please accept my deepest apologies and buy yourself a nice new box of cleenex and send me the bill!

Ha ha, Steve, I like your style!
When you post, "I don't want to miss a thing"

The fact is that the Hawks would never trade an established star like Birchall for some player who shows some promise. Birch is the best rebounding player in the league; he is regularly tagged to restrict his impact. And he is very important to the the club.

The club does not trade top players. Don't mention Trent Croad, as he was traded because he was seen as a gun outside the club, when he was struggling. It gave us the chance to get high draft picks, and he came back a better player.

.

 

[List Manager]

It was a genuine question, pull you're head in!
Throwing up names of players from other clubs who can't get a game doesn't constitute quality posting either!
So you want to add Thurlow, Martin and Lyons in, along with the players you mentioned, to lead our midfield for the next decade?

We've traded for depth twice, Cheney and Spangher, because they can play KPD, and key defenders/forwards are very hard to replace if injured, so are good backup/insurance.

Can you name me someone else on our list that we traded for who isn't in our best 22?

I wouldn't be trading for a midfielder from another club when we have similar already at BHH

If you were upset by my question then please accept my deepest apologies and buy yourself a nice new box of cleenex and send me the bill!

Pretty sure I didn't suggest trading for all 3 of those players but more so used their names as examples of possible trades at minimal cost to strengthen/deepen our list and yes, any one of those 3 would certainly add to our depth and in 2 years time most probably be regulars in our starting 22. Trading for depth can be looked at in one of two ways, as you have pretty much said yourself. 1) You trade guys in to improve your starting 22 relegating players already on your senior list down the order to become "depth players" who need to earn their spot through good form or 2) you can trade guys in at minimal cost to act as backup for your existing starting 22 ie. Cheney and Spangher as noted by yourself so both do and have happen at our club so I'm not sure why you are suggesting it shouldn't or won't.
Free agency adds another avenue to strengthen your list ie. Ross and Simpkin even though they may not be in your best 22 so you can't say that you don't trade for players or recruit them via free agency to add to your depth.
The guys I mentioned are young enough to work their way into our best 22 over the next decade and learn from the best in the meantime just as Suckling, Breust and Duryea have done in recent times after spending a number of years as "depth players" themselves for varying reasons.

As for throwing names up equalling quality posting, isn't this what Bigfooty is all about. At least I am realistic in my approach and pass on some information that comes to hand rather than having nothing to add, yet attack everyone else's posts.
I'll stop posting if that's what you'd like.

I'm not sure what cleenex is but I'll pick up a box of Kleenex tissues for you and post them over to you if you wish. This one will be on the house, as is the spelling lesson

Sometimes you are better off saying nothing when you don't have anything decent to say Mr Tyler.

 

[MrPremiership]

Martin, Thurlow, Lyons would be 3rd round picks at best.

I'd rather add to our depth by picking up a kid in the draft.

 

[MrPremiership]

Sometimes you are better off saying nothing when you don't have anything decent to say Mr Tyler.

Wasn't that Ronan Keating, not Steven Tyler?

 

[List Manager]

Wasn't that Ronan Keating, not Steven Tyler?

In a roundabout sort of way

 

[Brishawk]

Ha ha, Steve, I like your style!
When you post, "I don't want to miss a thing"

The fact is that the Hawks would never trade an established star like Birchall for some player who shows some promise. Birch is the best rebounding player in the league; he is regularly tagged to restrict his impact. And he is very important to the the club.

The club does not trade top players. Don't mention Trent Croad, as he was traded because he was seen as a gun outside the club, when he was struggling. It gave us the chance to get high draft picks, and he came back a better player.

.

Not only that we have virtually no ball winning HBF on the list outside the best 22. In the 22 we have Birchall, Hodge, Burgoyne and Suckling. Given half the board don't rate Suckling and the other two are nearing the end we would be mad to trade out our best ball winning HBF.

 

[MrPremiership]

Is our midfield falling apart that quickly? This is the same group that got to the 2011 PF, 2012 GF and 2013 GF. 2014 and we're 3rd on the ladder.

Sewell is best 22. He may retire this year but is almost already phased out by Langford
Burgoyne is signed on for 2015, probably his last. He is more a HBF these days and we have an abundance of those players.
Mitchell will go around in 2015 and 2016. Still our best player (bit of a concern).
Hodge just turned 30, so should be around for minimum 2 or 3 years. Still a vital player in the team. No one is taking his spot.

So how many places do we need to fill for 2015? Maybe 1. 2016? Maybe 2?

We have Jordan Lewis, only 27.
Liam Shiels 23(?)
Jed Anderson coming through, Isaac Smith, Brad Hill, Billy Hartung.

Our midfield is not in absolute strife next year, we only need 1 or 2 decent kids to come through in the next 2 years and we'll be fine. Go to the draft.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Pretty sure I didn't suggest trading for all 3 of those players but more so used their names as examples of possible trades at minimal cost to strengthen/deepen our list and yes, any one of those 3 would certainly add to our depth and in 2 years time most probably be regulars in our starting 22. Trading for depth can be looked at in one of two ways, as you have pretty much said yourself. 1) You trade guys in to improve your starting 22 relegating players already on your senior list down the order to become "depth players" who need to earn their spot through good form or 2) you can trade guys in at minimal cost to act as backup for your existing starting 22 ie. Cheney and Spangher as noted by yourself so both do and have happen at our club so I'm not sure why you are suggesting it shouldn't or won't.
Free agency adds another avenue to strengthen your list ie. Ross and Simpkin even though they may not be in your best 22 so you can't say that you don't trade for players or recruit them via free agency to add to your depth.
The guys I mentioned are young enough to work their way into our best 22 over the next decade and learn from the best in the meantime just as Suckling, Breust and Duryea have done in recent times after spending a number of years as "depth players" themselves for varying reasons.

As for throwing names up equalling quality posting, isn't this what Bigfooty is all about. At least I am realistic in my approach and pass on some information that comes to hand rather than having nothing to add, yet attack everyone else's posts.
I'll stop posting if that's what you'd like.

I'm not sure what cleenex is but I'll pick up a box of Kleenex tissues for you and post them over to you if you wish. This one will be on the house, as is the spelling lesson

Sometimes you are better off saying nothing when you don't have anything decent to say Mr Tyler.

Ross was a rookie pick and Simpkin was a delisted free agent, so costing us nothing to add to our list
Lyons, Martin or Thurlow would cost us as a trade would need to be arranged
Seems like it's just "shuffling the deck chairs" for the sake of trading
If you trade for depth, then you are using your depth to trade

I'm all for trading, but not for "depth"

Thanks for the spelling correction, hope you gave yourself a little fist pump as you pushed post reply!
Put me on ignore if I offend you, I'm not that fussed!

 

[List Manager]

Is our midfield falling apart that quickly? This is the same group that got to the 2011 PF, 2012 GF and 2013 GF. 2014 and we're 3rd on the ladder.

Sewell is best 22. He may retire this year but is almost already phased out by Langford
Burgoyne is signed on for 2015, probably his last. He is more a HBF these days and we have an abundance of those players.
Mitchell will go around in 2015 and 2016. Still our best player (bit of a concern).
Hodge just turned 30, so should be around for minimum 2 or 3 years. Still a vital player in the team. No one is taking his spot.

So how many places do we need to fill for 2015? Maybe 1. 2016? Maybe 2?

We have Jordan Lewis, only 27.
Liam Shiels 23(?)
Jed Anderson coming through, Isaac Smith, Brad Hill, Billy Hartung.

Our midfield is not in absolute strife next year, we only need 1 or 2 decent kids to come through in the next 2 years and we'll be fine. Go to the draft.

This is my point, you can do both without trading away your early picks or quality players yet still bring guys in that already have 2-3 years development in them.

For what it's worth, Kyle Martin is a big chance to win the Liston Trophy this year as the VFL's best player so he can play.

 

[List Manager]

Ross was a rookie pick and Simpkin was a delisted free agent, so costing us nothing to add to our list
Lyons, Martin or Thurlow would cost us as a trade would need to be arranged
Seems like it's just "shuffling the deck chairs" for the sake of trading
If you trade for depth, then you are using your depth to trade

I'm all for trading, but not for "depth"

Thanks for the spelling correction, hope you gave yourself a little fist pump as you pushed post reply!
Put me on ignore if I offend you, I'm not that fussed!

No need to ignore, I was defending my original post with supporting evidence and theories.

 

[List Manager]

Ross was a rookie pick and Simpkin was a delisted free agent, so costing us nothing to add to our list
Lyons, Martin or Thurlow would cost us as a trade would need to be arranged
Seems like it's just "shuffling the deck chairs" for the sake of trading
If you trade for depth, then you are using your depth to trade

I'm all for trading, but not for "depth"

Thanks for the spelling correction, hope you gave yourself a little fist pump as you pushed post reply!
Put me on ignore if I offend you, I'm not that fussed!

They are still a spot on the list, same as what the others would take up. Same theory. I'm not suggesting giving away early picks for those guys but the Hawks current trend suggests they may look to add immediate depth to the list with players who have a couple of years in the system under their belt.

 

[Brant]

Having Hartung, Smith and Hill might suggest a trade of one of them. I'd hate that though. Maybe having all three is part of the plan. If one went it would likely be Smith being the oldest

No way mate, not in my opinion. Whilst they share the similar speed/endurance trait, I feel they're all quite different & complementary players. Remember how effective Changa & Young were back in 2008? That's Smith & Hill now. Smith plays a lot deeper (like Young did), often getting the ball in the backline & running it out, relying on a booming left foot if needing to clear space. I think in 2008, Young had the most marks in the league (definitely most uncontested marks) as we'd leave him clear on the fat side & play through him when clearing defence. Smith is more productive than just run/carry but its an innovation on the same ideal. Smith doesn't kick 65m that often, but his One for the Ages on GF day shows he doesn't mind 55m.

Hill is more like Changa, starts maybe just backward of Centre or on a Wing & burst-runs forward - often through the middle. Like Changa did, he hits up leading forward targets with 30m kicks whilst in traffic. Each is integral to our play & means the other is more effective. Also, it's impossible to tag them both & if you do, expect to concede 60 kicks + 4 goals from the Suckling/Birchall combination.

IMO, Hartung is different again. To keep with the theme of matching to a recent/current player, he reminds me of Boomer Harvey - but less of a d**kh**d. He can play deep at either end & is a 1-2-1 type of link-up player. What I mean is, he'll make a pass then expect the handball as he bursts past; & happily do that from BP to CHF, twice per Quarter. Not to mention the obvious, that he can fill the vacancy left by either of the other 2 should they be unavailable.

The last advantage of the 3 of them is that they require a lot less Interchange breaks than their team-mates & their opponents. With interchange caps now part of the game, resting these guys at BP/FP gives us flexibility that other teams don't have. Sure, each have their limitations, but I'd not consider trading any of them unless it were they that approached requesting trade.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Steven Tyler]

They are still a spot on the list, same as what the others would take up. Same theory. I'm not suggesting giving away early picks for those guys but the Hawks current trend suggests they may look to add immediate depth to the list with players who have a couple of years in the system under their belt.

Immediate depth?
Looking back over the last 3 years at both Hawthorn and Box Hill:
2012 Hawthorn finished 2nd
2012 Box Hill finished 3rd/4th
2013 Hawthorn finished 1st
2013 Box Hill finished 1st

This year, despite long injury to key personnel, both Hawthorn and Box Hill are in a position to finish top of the ladder

Our "depth" is fine!

I'm enjoying the discussion

 

[cryptor]

Why would another clubs depth and borderline best 22 players want to make the move to Hawthorn just so they can play at Boxhill for most of the season?

 

[List Manager]

Immediate depth?
Looking back over the last 3 years at both Hawthorn and Box Hill:
2012 Hawthorn finished 2nd
2012 Box Hill finished 3rd/4th
2013 Hawthorn finished 1st
2013 Box Hill finished 1st

This year, despite long injury to key personnel, both Hawthorn and Box Hill are in a position to finish top of the ladder

Our "depth" is fine!

I'm enjoying the discussion

But obviously you aren't reading it!
The depth needs to continue to be replenished over the next few years by ways other than but also including the draft.
Losing Hodge, Sewell, Mitchell and Burgoyne automatically bring 4 "depth players" up the pecking order not to mention Hale and Lake who will join them....so who is currently behind those 4 depth players?
Not every kid you draft will make it at AFL level (see the failed Garlett experiment). If you aren't actively involved in maintaining your depth when you only have late first round picks to draft quality kids you will fall away pretty quickly when you eventually lose the Hodges and Mitchell's etc.

Ask Graham Wright what he thinks....maybe he'll give you a different answer!

 

[Brant]

Why would another clubs depth and borderline best 22 players want to make the move to Hawthorn just so they can play at Boxhill for most of the season?

Jonathan Simpkin could probably field this one best

Fair point though. IMO, they'd make the decision individually. E.g. A Tall Defender who is Depth at say Geelong might look at his opportunities there, compared with his opporunities at HFC & decide that Lake moving on would be better for him. The same way a Grimley might look at Footscray & think that he's 3rd in line there for a game instead of 5th in line etc. I guess...

 

[cryptor]

Jonathan Simpkin could probably field this one best

Fair point though. IMO, they'd make the decision individually. E.g. A Tall Defender who is Depth at say Geelong might look at his opportunities there, compared with his opporunities at HFC & decide that Lake moving on would be better for him. The same way a Grimley might look at Footscray & think that he's 3rd in line there for a game instead of 5th in line etc. I guess...

Simpkin was de-listed by Geelong. He would've at best signed up to play with a VFL level team if he wasn't offered something by an AFL club.

 

[flinchfree]

Sorry, add me to the list of those uninterested in 'depth' players who may or may not in the next 2 or 3 years be marginal best 22 players. I'd prefer to use the draft and at least hit on the occasional stud.
For me, trading is about getting what you don't have on your first team.
What we don't have right now is a stud young inside midfielder/utility who can tear the opposition a new one.

I'd like one of those please and am happy to trade our current 'depth' players for a shining example, not the other way around.


As a postscript, I'll have an apology on autofill to Jed if he can put his unlucky run of injuries behind him and prove to be that gun I've said is lacking........on glimpses he's shown promise, but it has to happen for him not to turn out to be a hard luck story.

 

[threesixpio]

Sorry, add me to the list of those uninterested in 'depth' players who may or may not in the next 2 or 3 years be marginal best 22 players. I'd prefer to use the draft and at least hit on the occasional stud.
For me, trading is about getting what you don't have on your first team.
What we don't have right now is a stud young inside midfielder/utility who can tear the opposition a new one.

I'd like one of those please and am happy to trade our current 'depth' players for a shining example, not the other way around.


As a postscript, I'll have an apology on autofill to Jed if he can put his unlucky run of injuries behind him and prove to be that gun I've said is lacking........on glimpses he's shown promise, but it has to happen for him not to turn out to be a hard luck story.

Jed might end up being a Hodge replacement but we still need to replace Sammy, Burgers and Sewell.

Woodward, Hallahan and Langford might get there but there is no guarantee.

The problem is that Sammies and Burgoynes don't grow on trees.

 

[threesixpio]

Just one classy young midfielder will do probably.