List Mgmt. 2014 List Management thread - 10 changes to the senior list.

[Dez!]

You don't seem to be grasping that all that talent means sweet **** when the game demands you win a contest

Until those elite kicks of the footy pull their fingers out an win some contests id rather a Mitch Robinson

Guess what won hawthorn the GF , not there precise kicking
It was the blood and guts of hodge, Lewis, Mitchell and Langford

Robinson wouldn't play 250 games for us but if you can't see that he adds more than just kamikaze then continue on being the moderator of opinions elsewhere

He is nothing more than a kamikaze lunatic, we've got guys that get the ball that are developing why stifle that by recruiting a known troublemaker that has horrible disposal? You need blokes on the outside and Robinson isn't better than the guys we've got on the inside.

 

[Topkent]

I'd argue he is better than Vince, Tyson , viney, Riley and others who played inside this year at winning the inside footy

Tyson's inside touches are miles cleaner and end in better clearances but id rather him getting the second possession not the first

Vince same again he was forced to play inside a lot when is rather him with more space

IMO which is clearly different to yours Robinson makes watts, toumpas and Salem better players next year by feeding the ball out to them

I like Aidan Riley but robbo is bigger and stronger and a good mark , plus if cross doesn't make it through the season we need another kamikaze

 

[Demon 16]

I'd argue he is better than Vince, Tyson , viney, Riley and others who played inside this year at winning the inside footy

No, No, debatable, Yes.

 

[Topkent]

No, No, debatable, Yes.

As pure ball winning inside midfielders he is
Not with what he does after he gets it

I see it in 3 stages
Winning the footy - Either tackling/smothering or winning a 50/50
Finding someone on the outside - This is the second possession where someone like Tyson steps around someone to get his arms free and find someone on the move
Outside - When your Jack Watts/Vince has a few metres to size up a kick upfield

Like as in if you stood Vince/Tyson and Robbo 10metres apart and said get the ball I know who gets it everytime

Tyson and Vince are cleaner and quicker of mind once they get hands on it which is why I would prefer Robinson is the one crashing in then flicking out to Tyson/Vince who then find someone on the outside

 

[Demon 16]

As pure ball winning inside midfielders he is
Not with what he does after he gets it

I see it in 3 stages
Winning the footy - Either tackling/smothering or winning a 50/50
Finding someone on the outside - This is the second possession where someone like Tyson steps around someone to get his arms free and find someone on the move
Outside - When your Jack Watts/Vince has a few metres to size up a kick upfield

Like as in if you stood Vince/Tyson and Robbo 10metres apart and said get the ball I know who gets it everytime

Tyson and Vince are cleaner and quicker of mind once they get hands on it which is why I would prefer Robinson is the one crashing in then flicking out to Tyson/Vince who then find someone on the outside

Vince is no stranger to the kamikaze - I've seen him crash in like a madman many times, but he chooses his moments a lot better than Robinson and his disposal is much better and smarter.

Tyson doesn't crash in there, but he comes out with the pill and he's always still standing - which is elite. He also feeds it out very well.

Viney a bit like Robinson in his attack - but I rate his work ethic and smarts as better. I also think he's going to be a lot better by the time he's Robinsons age.

That said, I'm not bagging Robinson. Its a shame he's a mental case, because he'd be great for a few years to help carry our midfield workload. We were just cooked by about round 13 last year, and an extra couple of 'workmen' in the middle would have made the world of difference.

 

[Topkent]

Vince is no stranger to the kamikaze - I've seen him crash in like a madman many times, but he chooses his moments a lot better than Robinson and his disposal is much better and smarter.

Tyson doesn't crash in there, but he comes out with the pill and he's always still standing - which is elite. He also feeds it out very well.

Viney a bit like Robinson in his attack - but I rate his work ethic and smarts as better. I also think he's going to be a lot better by the time he's Robinsons age.

That said, I'm not bagging Robinson. Its a shame he's a mental case, because he'd be great for a few years to help carry our midfield workload. We were just cooked by about round 13 last year, and an extra couple of 'workmen' in the middle would have made the world of difference.

I agree with all of your points and yeah Vince and Tyson are better players all around, but both need extra support in the physical stuff because Viney was cooked by about round 5 and Riley, Bail, Cross etc cant carry the load

Robinson is an average footballer but he would improve our midfield no doubt at all

 

[Klyntonius]

I must admit I'm finding it hard to understand how the club is supposed to be ruthless in pursuit of success (as we all say we want) if we want to add/keep list cloggers like Bail and Robinson. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. We should be cutting deadwood as soon as we get the chance and adding talent that we all agree we are light on for.

 

[Topkent]

I must admit I'm finding it hard to understand how the club is supposed to be ruthless in pursuit of success (as we all say we want) if we want to add/keep list cloggers like Bail and Robinson. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. We should be cutting deadwood as soon as we get the chance and adding talent that we all agree we are light on for.

You cant add talent where it doesnt exist

You think cutting 15 players and then adding a bunch of 18 year olds will fix our problems??


Apparently anyone who is over the age of 20 and not a superstar is a list clogger now

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Saying Robinson is a list clogger is harsh, he's been best 22 at Carlton for a few years (and without his issues this year still would be) and has played 100 game while still being 24/25.

 

[Demon 16]

I must admit I'm finding it hard to understand how the club is supposed to be ruthless in pursuit of success (as we all say we want) if we want to add/keep list cloggers like Bail and Robinson. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. We should be cutting deadwood as soon as we get the chance and adding talent that we all agree we are light on for.

As Nick said, there's no point delisting guys to being in pick 80 or 90.

I'm happy with the last 2 years of list management - all we need now is a star or 2 in next years trade/free agency period, and guys like Jones and McKenzie will be gone.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

He has too much swag IMO. It's intimidating and might make hipster Hogan feel inferior.

 

[Klyntonius]

You cant add talent where it doesnt exist

You think cutting 15 players and then adding a bunch of 18 year olds will fix our problems??


Apparently anyone who is over the age of 20 and not a superstar is a list clogger now

Nice over exaggeration. I'm talking about cutting one extra 26 year old list clogger who adds nothing to our future, on top of the other cuts we've already made. I'd rather we tried the Aiden Riley route again to replace Bail and get a young delisted free agent who's is already physically mature to the demands of AFL football. You know, the other option of getting a kid other than the draft.

Saying Robinson is a list clogger is harsh, he's been best 22 at Carlton for a few years (and without his issues this year still would be) and has played 100 game while still being 24/25.

Fair enough. I don't rate him as anymore than average at best, can't see him improving or adding anything to our list on field or off. To me he'd be clogging our list.

 

[Topkent]

Nice over exaggeration. I'm talking about cutting one extra 26 year old list clogger who adds nothing to our future, on top of the other cuts we've already made. I'd rather we tried the Aiden Riley route again to replace Bail and get a young delisted free agent who's is already physically mature to the demands of AFL football. You know, the other option of getting a kid other than the draft.




Fair enough. I don't rate him as anymore than average at best, can't see him improving or adding anything to our list on field or off. To me he'd be clogging our list.

What's the difference between Aidan Riley and Robinson

The age and about 80 more games to robbo
Riley is going to turn into robbo at his best , why not skip the process instead of bringing in more under developed players

 

[Topkent]

Furthermore a list clogger is Sam blease and James Strauss
Over 10 years combined on the list for under 50 games

Bail isn't a list clogger if he is playing 15+ games a year

 

[Cannon82]

Robinson is the same player as he was 5 years ago. Hard at it, stupid, poor skills, undisciplined. Things you overlook or forgive a 20 year old wear pretty thin with a 25 year old. He had his off-field issues last year, and on-field issues as well. He's average at best. If he wasn't, Carlton would want to hang on to him given the age of Simpson, Judd, etc and the fact McLean, Lucas and co. don't seem to be getting another contract either.

 

[Dez!]

What's the difference between Aidan Riley and Robinson

The age and about 80 more games to robbo
Riley is going to turn into robbo at his best , why not skip the process instead of bringing in more under developed players

Plenty of difference.

- Not a dickhead.
- Younger and hasn't hit his ceiling yet, could end up better than Robinson.
- Isn't poison to people around him.

Sometimes hedging your bets on the unknown (Riley) is better than settling for what you know (Robinson).

 

[Topkent]

Plenty of difference.

- Not a dickhead.
- Younger and hasn't hit his ceiling yet, could end up better than Robinson.
- Isn't poison to people around him.

Sometimes hedging your bets on the unknown (Riley) is better than settling for what you know (Robinson).

We tried building a club around the unknown and it failed miserably

I like Riley but to suggest we should keep players because there ceiling might be higher is the same shitty logic that destroyed the club in 07-08

 

[Topkent]

Is the offseason done yet

I want to just get back to when we could all agree about our shitness

 

[Dez!]

We tried building a club around the unknown and it failed miserably

I like Riley but to suggest we should keep players because there ceiling might be higher is the same shitty logic that destroyed the club in 07-08

Different coaching staff with a proven track record makes a big difference besides keeping Riley and not recruiting Robinson isn't going to destroy the club.

 

[Viney]

Is the offseason done yet

I want to just get back to when we could all agree about our shitness

Exactly

Bring on round 1 quarter time where we eye the 2015 draft

 

[Theseventhhamster]

It would be nice if this was the last year in a while where we are the draft stars.

 

[Demon 16]

It would be nice if this was the last year in a while where we are the draft stars.

I don't think we'll be using high draft pick next year - we'll work pretty hard for a trade, rather than take more picks.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I don't think we'll be using high draft pick next year - we'll work pretty hard for a trade, rather than take more picks.

I'm thinking the same.

 

[Demon 16]

I'm thinking the same.

A big trade and a big free agent, and all of a sudden our list is ready to do something.

 

[Blackas87]

McLean also delisted, anyone want him back?