List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[SkyhorseTamer]

Extraversion and introversion.... It's like coaching for leaders. Some players will respond better to the more dominant centre of attention I'm the best so follow me extrovert style whilst others will follow more introverted leadership better. Just depends. One isn't inherently better than the other.

 

[RAPPA]

I think you are engaging in wishful or idealised thinking which has lead you into errors of judgment. But that is only my opinion.

Time will tell which of us is correct. But Weiters is now 26. He has had plenty of time already to prove me wrong, and he hasn’t done so.

Forget the quantitative approach. Focus on issues, sometimes nuanced or subtle issues, that relate to quality, not quantity.

Weitering is 25, but if we're going to assess some of our backline cohort against the age lens, and highlight their flaws, then:
Young (24) - $hits the bed more often than a 2 year old
Docherty (29) - iffy disposal and decision making at times. Loves the dump kick.
Newman (30) - overly laconic, turnover merchant
McGovern (28) - Bruise free footballer that cannot clunk a mark

Frankly, the whole team is underperforming. Not one single player.

Anyway, we agree to disagree.

 

[My Hat]

Talking of Cripps, I listened to Doc on 3aw this afternoon. He is clearly smarter, calmer and more switched on that Cripper. Now that he seems to have overcome his health problems he should replace Cripps as captain next year.

We need real leaders in leadership positions.

A leadership group with too many intense introverts is a self evident disaster waiting to happen. And that disaster is currently happening on field at Carlton.

Couldn't agree less. The idea that 'real leaders' and introverts are somehow opposites of each other is a complete myth.

Cripps may or may not be the best choice for captain, but his level of introversion has nothing to do with it either way.

 

[Stefchook]

Docherty (29) - iffy disposal and decision making at times. Loves the dump kick.

He's barely played in defence this year.

 

[Stefchook]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.

Perhaps the fact that Young has only played 43 games, and Kemp and Boyd 9 games, might have something to do with a lack of defensive cohesion. No doubt we're missing Newman who's been our best defender this year and Docherty who's hardly played there.

Besides, the backline hasn't been the problem in recent weeks.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

I actually think Weitering might be the opposite of a weak psychological link. He knows what needs to be done and is losing his mind at others who can follow simple instructions or execute simple skills like Young.

Weitering is the least of our problems. Trading him out would be just about the dumbest thing the club could do aside from trading Charlie, Walsh or Harry. I’d literally trade everyone else in the backline out rather than lose Weitering.

 

[ctwenty1]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

 

[Revenant1965]

I could give an opinion on psychological make-up of players, but I think I'd be saying something about myself moreso than any player....

 

[Bostonian]

Forward entry is a real issue. Our forward structure is horrible but we've got the best forward line (on paper) in the comp, or comparable to the best. We need to 1. lead up the ground (thereby creating space behind us for the other forwards to lead into) 2. crumb 3. not lead to the same positions 4 block and make space for each other.

We don't have the best forward line on paper though.

Outside of two talls we have nothing up forward.

No half forwards, no small forwards, just bog average.

 

[gadj1976]

The more and more I see of our season, the more I feel we're disconnected from our mids to forward entry. It seems to be as simple as, "we have no system going forward".

So what's going to change - move Hansen/Tim Clarke

Tim Clarke

Age

42

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.4

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

7.4

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

on? Does anyone know what contracts these guys are on?

Remembering Melbourne moved on Brendan McCartney and in worked wonders. Have we got the same problems that can be rectified by moving one person on? Is it that easy?

Additionally, is it worthwhile getting a Mark Williams type to come over and mentor the coaching group. The Performance Manager is Aaron Greaves - but I'm not sure what he's accountable for.

 

[gadj1976]

We don't have the best forward line on paper though.

Outside of two talls we have nothing up forward.

No half forwards, no small forwards, just bog average.

Yeh, sorry meant key forwards.

 

[gbatman]

Need to trade one of Cripps, Hewett or Kennedy for a two way running mid. It won't be Cripps.

Issue is we have a lot of mids who are one way runners, that's fine, everyone has them, but we have too many and not only that we are demanding them one defensively.

If one way running mids run defensively, they do not run offensively and hence you get the ball movement we have. Those three in the team, if they are running defensively, they aren't going to be running offensively, they just can't.

In the meantime we need to change tactically and give them a license to run one way offensively.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

So WCE who’s overall list is in a very ordinary state and in desperate need of a rebuild with a huge number of aging players and bugger all younger stars coming through, are going to potentially give up the number one pick on a kid Harly Reid who is a freakish talent for Cripps & Fisher and our pick…
They will be offered way way way better than that deal, which would be laughed at and knocked back on the spot…
WCE need as many multiple draft picks they can get as do we, one player ain’t going to fix the massive list holes each club are desperately lacking….

 

[jj1978]

I made a post a few weeks back that potentially we could be turning over 17 players come seasons end.... even though may seem unrealistic it's probably something we should do.

 

[gadj1976]

I made a post a few weeks back that potentially we could be turning over 17 players come seasons end.... even though may seem unrealistic it's probably something we should do.

Where are the replacements coming from - remembering that depth is apparently our issue?

 

[Jatz]

I'm not against a mini rebuild of sorts. I think the nucleus of the squad is still there but we've not got the balance right. It might mean having to give up a decent player but I don't think the list is currently where it needs to be.

 

[jj1978]

Where are the replacements coming from - remembering that depth is apparently our issue?

our current "depth" is not cutting the mustard, frail (unreliable), or seen as expendable i.e.;

• LOB
• Dow
• Marchbank
• Marten
• Honey
• Fogarty
• Cunningham
• Philp

Then we have players like TDK, Plowman, McGov, JSOS who may depart to greener pastures and better opportunities or $$$.

Ed prob will retire.

Need to make the call on Mirkov and Akuei (I'd delist).

Then look at some players we can trade for currency and take a gamble;

• One of Durdin/Motlop/Owies
• One of Kennedy/Hewett

From the above list majority of those have not featured in the ones regularly enough anyway or we need to refresh.

 

[gadj1976]

our current "depth" is not cutting the mustard, frail (unreliable), or seen as expendable i.e.;

• LOB
• Dow
• Marchbank
• Marten
• Honey
• Fogarty
• Cunningham
• Philp

Then we have players like TDK, Plowman, McGov, JSOS who may depart to greener pastures and better opportunities or $$$.

Ed prob will retire.

Need to make the call on Mirkov and Akuei (I'd delist).

Then look at some players we can trade for currency and take a gamble;

• One of Durdin/Motlop/Owies
• One of Kennedy/Hewett

From the above list majority of those have not featured in the ones regularly enough anyway or we need to refresh.

That answered the question of the 17, but not where they are coming from.

 

[Kruezing]

So WCE who’s overall list is in a very ordinary state and in desperate need of a rebuild with a huge number of aging players and bugger all younger stars coming through, are going to potentially give up the number one pick on a kid Harly Reid who is a freakish talent for Cripps & Fisher and our pick…
They will be offered way way way better than that deal, which would be laughed at and knocked back on the spot…
WCE need as many multiple draft picks they can get as do we, one player ain’t going to fix the massive list holes each club are desperately lacking….

Our pick could be as high as 3

 

[jj1978]

That answered the question of the 17, but not where they are coming from.

Be adventurous, trade some futures, and with the currency we get from trading a couple of these 17 get another 3-4 picks in the top 40 and another third rounder or 2.

So potentially 5 top 40 prospects... (7 picks in first 3 rounds) look at players from other clubs seeking opportunity a few reasonably mature and some kids devoid of opportunity perhaps another 3. Then can't do much worse picking the rest from the dregs of the draft and hoping to find a gem... they'll be cheap and can't do worse than some we have already taking more $ and having enough quantifiable data to already realise they'll not amount to consistent AFL players.

 

[LFTWNG11]

So WCE who’s overall list is in a very ordinary state and in desperate need of a rebuild with a huge number of aging players and bugger all younger stars coming through, are going to potentially give up the number one pick on a kid Harly Reid who is a freakish talent for Cripps & Fisher and our pick…
They will be offered way way way better than that deal, which would be laughed at and knocked back on the spot…
WCE need as many multiple draft picks they can get as do we, one player ain’t going to fix the massive list holes each club are desperately lacking….

We will potentially have pick 3 or 4. Package that up with Cripps and some of his salary. That would be more attractive than a list clogger like Fisher. Question is... is one player like Reid going to do the trick for us? Potentially splitting the pick in a deep draft may make sense.

I would trade Cripps out regardless of the strategy.

 

[gadj1976]

Be adventurous, trade some futures, and with the currency we get from trading a couple of these 17 get another 3-4 picks in the top 40 and another third rounder or 2.

So potentially 5 top 40 prospects... (7 picks in first 3 rounds) look at players from other clubs seeking opportunity a few reasonably mature and some kids devoid of opportunity perhaps another 3. Then can't do much worse picking the rest from the dregs of the draft and hoping to find a gem... they'll be cheap and can't do worse than some we have already taking more $ and having enough quantifiable data to already realise they'll not amount to consistent AFL players.

Serious question, who'd come to us?

 

[charred_fate]

Weiters has been a big part of our problem. For all the talk of him being such a cool head, I think the opposite is truer. His demeanour suggests ‘calm and collected’ but in reality he’s a total panic merchant with ball in hand - panics by throwing the ball on the boot in general play, panics by being too slow to move from a mark.

The return on investment is horrendous atm. Not alone in that regard, but to pretend he’s the least of our problems is ignoring reality.

Was pleasing to see him going for and holding most of his marks on the weekend. A step in the right direction.

 

[jj1978]

Serious question, who'd come to us?

With a good list cleanse of 10+ players there is ample opportunity for someone to have an opportunity with us in the seniors if they give full effort and have means of impact.

 

[jj1978]

We will potentially have pick 3 or 4. Package that up with Cripps and some of his salary. That would be more attractive than a list clogger like Fisher. Question is... is one player like Reid going to do the trick for us? Potentially splitting the pick in a deep draft may make sense.

I would trade Cripps out regardless of the strategy.

Weagles will be in a 66-88 game rebuild... Cripps by that stage will be broken, over 30 and would not consider dwindling his last years never playing finals. He's more of a chance to be traded to a Sydney, Adelaide or *.

I'd be going Our first rounder, Jesse Motlop (WA boy), Fisher (WA boy) and Swap a future second for their future 3rd.

2 players who may have some impact over the rebuild journey with Motlop a chance to hit his prime once rebuild complete. And two decent picks that they can ontrade or get some good kids in.