List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Elmer_Judd]

Q for keen draft watchers here, any Bailey Humphrey types in this year's, national draft, big bodied and pacey midfielder who can kick goals

He is the prototype we should be targetting in this year's National Draft (under almost no circumstances should we trade our first round pick)

 

[gbatman]

I wonder whether some of our woes come from demanding our players run both ways and defend too much?

So looking at our midfield, I would say that Kennedy, Hewett, Cripps and probably Dow aren't midfielders who can run both ways. Don't have the speed and/or endurance.

You have these guys running defensively, you aren't going to have them running offensively.

This kind of explains our poor offensive ball movement which leads to poor scoring and losing games. It explains a lot really.

So what do we do?

Well rebuild the midfield, this is a must. Can't run both ways so let's build one that can.

Concede this and give Hewett, Kennedy and Cripps instructions to stay forward of the ball. Give them a license to attack.

Rotate our one way runners more.

Be prepared to be more offensive and concede more goals as we keep more mids at home, forward of the ball.

 

[no fate]

Considering that we effectively shut ourselves out of the pointy end of 2019, 2020 and 2021 drafts, we now need to manufacture a sustained run of success at the draft. I thought our 2022 effort a good but not spectacular start. So 2023 and 2024 will be where the rejuvenation of our team will be won or lost.

As someone said earlier, in 2019, it was a shame we couldn't complete our sh*thouse season and end high up in the draft thereby putting a Young or Serong in our pocket, rather than the pick we fancied so little we downgraded it. In 2020 although I love Saad, it was the wrong move to push all our chips in and trade such a high pick for him, as his teammates just don't look good enough to win a premiership during his career. Can handle trading the high pick for Cerra in 2021 in isolation as he's still young, is a gun and could keep getting better, but it must stop there.

Must not trade our 2024 first rounder unless we both get a great deal in return, and are sure we are going to bounce next year. Many here wanted to trade this year's pick on the basis that it was certain to be in the teens, but of course it will now be in the first half dozen, and it is essential that we use to bring in a gun in the draft. Next year's pick which looks on track to be another top 10 selection must also deliver an absolute gun.

On a related topic, not interested in grinding out ugly wins for the rest of this year - would like us to knock * out of finals next week, similar for Aints later and we'll beat WCE. But prepared to sacrifice all else to develop our young guys and future game plan with an eye on next year. More Dow and less Ed Curnow please. If we get thrashed once or twice so what? It can't be worse than the meaningless nothing we have now.

 

[sweethoney]

I wonder whether some of our woes come from demanding our players run both ways and defend too much?

So looking at our midfield, I would say that Kennedy, Hewett, Cripps and probably Dow aren't midfielders who can run both ways. Don't have the speed and/or endurance.

You have these guys running defensively, you aren't going to have them running offensively.

This kind of explains our poor offensive ball movement which leads to poor scoring and losing games. It explains a lot really.

So what do we do?

Well rebuild the midfield, this is a must. Can't run both ways so let's build one that can.

Concede this and give Hewett, Kennedy and Cripps instructions to stay forward of the ball. Give them a license to attack.

Rotate our one way runners more.

Be prepared to be more offensive and concede more goals as we keep more mids at home, forward of the ball.

So play like the first half of last year when we were winning

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Considering that we effectively shut ourselves out of the pointy end of 2019, 2020 and 2021 drafts, we now need to manufacture a sustained run of success at the draft. I thought our 2022 effort a good but not spectacular start. So 2023 and 2024 will be where the rejuvenation of our team will be won or lost.

As someone said earlier, in 2019, it was a shame we couldn't complete our sh*thouse season and end high up in the draft thereby putting a Young or Serong in our pocket, rather than the pick we fancied so little we downgraded it. In 2020 although I love Saad, it was the wrong move to push all our chips in and trade such a high pick for him, as his teammates just don't look good enough to win a premiership during his career. Can handle trading the high pick for Cerra in 2021 in isolation as he's still young, is a gun and could keep getting better, but it must stop there.

Must not trade our 2024 first rounder unless we both get a great deal in return, and are sure we are going to bounce next year. Many here wanted to trade this year's pick on the basis that it was certain to be in the teens, but of course it will now be in the first half dozen, and it is essential that we use to bring in a gun in the draft. Next year's pick which looks on track to be another top 10 selection must also deliver an absolute gun.

On a related topic, not interested in grinding out ugly wins for the rest of this year - would like us to knock * out of finals next week, similar for Aints later and we'll beat WCE. But prepared to sacrifice all else to develop our young guys and future game plan with an eye on next year. More Dow and less Ed Curnow please. If we get thrashed once or twice so what? It can't be worse than the meaningless nothing we have now.

I cannot like and agree with this post more !!!

Put the nail on the proverbial head.

 

[oldtimer22]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

 

[My Hat]

Peculiar how its always Weiters and Cripps that are somehow inadequate because they're introverts but the issue with Voss is never that he's an extravert. Bias much?

 

[RAPPA]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

Removing our only genuine defender is not the answer. Yes, he has been down this year, but so has 95% of the team. I can at least give him the benefit of the doubt with the whole being scammed of his life savings debacle which undoubtedly has messed him up. But he has been getting better over the last couple of games.

 

[Coona Blues]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

Way too simplistic!

Weitering is a part of the problem, a big part. The team needs to be united and the teams within the team, even more united. Weitering is NOT a mature leader, he is a construct if his coaches and mentors. He has been very pliable, and has a need for vindication from his leaders. He has been told he is a leader, so is doing leader things. He needs to be a valued member of the team. He is not the man who should be barking orders, he should be concentrating on his own role. The coaches need to have his partners in crime drilled to do their bit.

In my opinion, Weiters need to be the man has caused significant disconnect structure wise, leading to confusion with his partners in crime. Thus the drop off of Young and some less than flattering assessment of Kemp. Weiters is wired much like Voss, increased intensity on himself and the group.

They all need it simplified, clear roles and simple expectations.

 

[oldtimer22]

Peculiar how its always Weiters and Cripps that are somehow inadequate because they're introverts but the issue with Voss is never that he's an extravert. Bias much?

Talking of Cripps, I listened to Doc on 3aw this afternoon. He is clearly smarter, calmer and more switched on than Cripper. Now that he seems to have overcome his health problems he should replace Cripps as captain next year.

We need real leaders in leadership positions.

A leadership group with too many intense introverts is a self evident disaster waiting to happen. And that disaster is currently happening on field at Carlton.

 

[BlueGum]

Just watched First Crack on foxfooty and the three of them summed up the flat feeling about the team that all of us and increasingly most of the broader football world feel. They showed footage of the backline cohort soothing each other after a Melbourne goal. They said that those players were focussed on themselves, not the team. Judging by the vision the backline players looked lost.
The problem with the team is predominantly psychological. That means that we have to identify the weak psychological links and then trade them out of the club at the end of the year AND we have to bold and daring.

This might sound harsh but Weitering is a weak psychological link because he is such an intense introvert, who overthinks. He is now a senior player and his psychological limitations and handicaps are being transferred to the rest of the team, especially the backline.

Trade him out and we will free up the team.

And we should be able to get a good return for him.

My comments are meant to be qualitative so don’t come back at me with stats. That’s a meaningless numbers game approach.

Have you read any qualitative research on introverts as effective leaders?

 

[oldtimer22]

Way too simplistic!

Weitering is a part of the problem, a big part. The team needs to be united and the teams within the team, even more united. Weitering is NOT a mature leader, he is a construct if his coaches and mentors. He has been very pliable, and has a need for vindication from his leaders. He has been told he is a leader, so is doing leader things. He needs to be a valued member of the team. He is not the man who should be barking orders, he should be concentrating on his own role. The coaches need to have his partners in crime drilled to do their bit.

In my opinion, Weiters need to be the man has caused significant disconnect structure wise, leading to confusion with his partners in crime. Thus the drop off of Young and some less than flattering assessment of Kemp. Weiters is wired much like Voss, increased intensity on himself and the group.

They all need it simplified, clear roles and simple expectations.

No matey. Not simplistic.

‘There is a wise saying about keeping things simple.

This is football, not the physics faculty at Oxford University.

‘Weltering does not have all the attributes to be a leader, on field or off field, of a football team.

Lets be brave and trade him.

It could be a win win.

 

[BlueGum]

No matey. Not simplistic.

‘There is a wise saying about keeping things simple.

This is football, not the physics faculty at Oxford University.

‘Weltering does not have all the attributes to be a leader, on field or off field, of a football team.

Lets be brave and trade him.

It could be a win win.

That saying is about system design, not football.

 

[oldtimer22]

Have you read any qualitative research on introverts as effective leaders?

Too broad a question. Has there been any qualitative research on Jacob Weitering, as an introvert, being an effective leader in 2023 and beyond at the Carlton Football Club? That’s the only qualitative research relevant to Jacob Weitering that I am presently interested in.

Forget the broad brush academic treatment of introverts and leadership.

 

[BlueGum]

You're wrong though. Like the rest of the team and coaches there's some work going on to get everyone on the same page.

Weiters will be in the thick of it. He'll come out of it a better leader too.

 

[oldtimer22]

Removing our only genuine defender is not the answer. Yes, he has been down this year, but so has 95% of the team. I can at least give him the benefit of the doubt with the whole being scammed of his life savings debacle which undoubtedly has messed him up. But he has been getting better over the last couple of games.

The focus is, as it should be, on Weitering’s psychological type and the impact his personal psychology has on the psychological health of the entire team.

That is the real issue.

‘Yes, at times, he can be an effective footballer.

My comments go to the fundamentals, not existential but variable, good, individual form.

This list needs a major shake up. He is a weak link on team morale but he has real trade value.

We won’t get a real shake up without giving up something that the rest of the competition value.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

!00% convinced we should sacrifice Cripps and trade him. Couldnt care less that he's the captain.

 

[oldtimer22]

You're wrong though. Like the rest of the team and coaches there's some work going on to get everyone on the same page.

Weiters will be in the thick of it. He'll come out of it a better leader too.

I think you are engaging in wishful or idealised thinking which has lead you into errors of judgment. But that is only my opinion.

Time will tell which of us is correct. But Weiters is now 26. He has had plenty of time already to prove me wrong, and he hasn’t done so.

Forget the quantitative approach. Focus on issues, sometimes nuanced or subtle issues, that relate to quality, not quantity.

 

[The Bighouse]

Talking of Cripps, I listened to Doc on 3aw this afternoon. He is clearly smarter, calmer and more switched on that Cripper. Now that he seems to have overcome his health problems he should replace Cripps as captain next year.

We need real leaders in leadership positions.

A leadership group with too many intense introverts is a self evident disaster waiting to happen. And that disaster is currently happening on field at Carlton.

Doc is not switched on ATM either. Bringing poor disposal & decision-making back to his game.
Out on the full vs Collingwood in the last Q another example of our fragility upstairs when in crucial moment/s.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I think you are engaging in wishful or idealised thinking which has lead you into errors of judgment. But that is only my opinion.

Time will tell which of us is correct. But Weiters is now 26. He has had plenty of time already to prove me wrong, and he hasn’t done so.

Forget the quantitative approach. Focus on issues, sometimes nuanced or subtle issues, that relate to quality, not quantity.

With all due respect mate, you sound like someone who's just walked out of some corporate team building day.

 

[oldtimer22]

!00% convinced we should sacrifice Cripps and trade him. Couldnt care less that he's the captain.

I agree with your sacrifice oriented approach. Whether it is Cripps who has to be sacrificed one thing is clear. A senior player with real trade value should be sacrificed.

‘That limits the group to Weiters, Cripps, McKay and Charlie.

I wouldn’t trade McKay or Charlie but I’m very comfortable with the other two being traded.

Let’s assume West Coast finish last and we are 13th or 14th.

We should target Reid. That means trading first round pics with WC plus giving them a player.

Surely if we gave them Cripps we’d get their 1st pick in exchange for ours. We could throw in Fisher too.

‘Cripps and Fisher are West Australians.

 

[Magical_EddieBetts]

!00% convinced we should sacrifice Cripps and trade him. Couldnt care less that he's the captain.

Thank God you’re not in charge of list management!! This trade Crippa and Harry talk is absolutely ridiculous

 

[oldtimer22]

With all due respect mate, you sound like someone who's just walked out of some corporate team building day.

If you knew me you’d never make that allegation! I’m definitely not a corporate type, let alone a modern corporate type. On the other hand, our President is such a type.

 

[BlueGum]

Are they west Australians? Who knew?

 

[oldtimer22]

Thank God you’re not in charge of list management!! This trade Crippa and Harry talk is absolutely ridiculous

No we must keep Harry.