Autopsy 2023 Round 4 – Essendon Bombers v GWS Giants, Sunday, April 9, 2.10PM AEST, @ Marvel Stadium

[Giant Strides]

Fahey rarely misses a kick

Yes, I do think it's time that he gets his chance. The higher pressure in AFL might disturb his otherwise excellent kicking accuracy, but we won't know until it's tried at AFL level. Watching us scrap to win ball off our opponents only to hand it back from a misdirected kick has been frustrating (to say the least!) these last 2 weeks.

 

[Hendo_21]

Pretty disappointing game and with how some of the players are paid the club will be severely regretting those decisions and also the players development is very lacking
The players need a rocket and the coach should be having some hard discussions with players to see if they have anymore to give or they are at the limit

Idun and Cumming need to work on their game as they are too 1 dimensional
Hogan and Greene need to show the younger players how to work defensively
Not sure what Cogs does in the midfield but he has to be the most overpaid player in the comp, another who needs to work on the defensive side of the game
Mids really need to work on thew contested side of the game as they have lost the last 3 although not sure any others on the list can help in that area it is up to those leaders on the field to improve that part of the game
Nothing too add on Riccardi but he will be playing reserves for hopefully the rest of the season
Stone into reserves he is underdone and needs to get time on the field before coming back into the team
I dont think either of HH or Riccardi want to play pt ruck but are forced into it and they should try 2 rucks for a few weeks to see how it works and 1 can be subbed off late in the game if that is the best option

No injuries and a 7 day break with the coaches showing some tough love to some players and a change in attitude should hopefully produce a better effort next sunday

• Green and Cogs both applied plenty of pressure yesterday Greene was second on the team in pressure acts and Cogs was 5th so they both did their job.
• Cogs had 25 a goal and tied for most clearances on the ground I'm not sure why he's the one that copping the stick.
• Stone just isn't good enough atm to be playing week in week out, doesn't really get involved at all.
• Haynes looked great again, think he's looked better every week and was fantastic yesterday a proper vintage Haynes game
• Riccardi isn't playing well what so ever, would think going up against Hawthorn Cadman is a real chance next week
• Ash was alright found enough of it but only 377 metres gained from 26 touches at half back is a bit underwhelming
• Rowston looked better last week but he isn't at the level right now, no issues at all with that considering he's 3 games in but he gives very little atm and has a sizeable midfield role

 

[Giant Pete]

Yes, I do think it's time that he gets his chance. The higher pressure in AFL might disturb his otherwise excellent kicking accuracy, but we won't know until it's tried at AFL level. Watching us scrap to win ball off our opponents only to hand it back from a misdirected kick has been frustrating (to say the least!) these last 2 weeks.

At the moment we look like headless chooks. Hard to tell how much is on the players and how much is on the coaches.

 

[Giant Pete]

• Green and Cogs both applied plenty of pressure yesterday Greene was second on the team in pressure acts and Cogs was 5th so they both did their job.
• Cogs had 25 a goal and tied for most clearances on the ground I'm not sure why he's the one that copping the stick.
• Stone just isn't good enough atm to be playing week in week out, doesn't really get involved at all.
• Haynes looked great again, think he's looked better every week and was fantastic yesterday a proper vintage Haynes game
• Riccardi isn't playing well what so ever, would think going up against Hawthorn Cadman is a real chance next week
• Ash was alright found enough of it but only 377 metres gained from 26 touches at half back is a bit underwhelming
• Rowston looked better last week but he isn't at the level right now, no issues at all with that considering he's 3 games in but he gives very little atm and has a sizeable midfield role

Potentially XOH for Rowston. We are filling the gap until Pez returns.
No one has been having a crack at Cogs have they?

 

[Hendo_21]

Potentially XOH for Rowston. We are filling the gap until Pez returns.
No one has been having a crack at Cogs have they?

Someone was calling him one of the most overpaid players in the comp and not doing enough defenisvely

 

[GWS Goose]

Potentially XOH for Rowston. We are filling the gap until Pez returns.
No one has been having a crack at Cogs have they?

The comment he was replying to was very critical of cogs

 

[fridgeman]

That was me and I just don’t think for how much he is being paid he should be top 10
Players in the comp and he is far from that and looking at how the team has lost contested ball the last 3 weeks he needs to step up and he isnt
Stats are stats and yes he can be getting 25 and a goal but 1 effective tackle and 9 contested possessions he should be getting minimum 5 tackles a game and his contested possessions should be more than uncontested or we will keep losing to bottom teams and making Stringer look like he is a star instead of the average footballer he is. That is just an example as Cogs wouldn’t match up on him but looking at the stats when the game was on the line in the last quarter how did the centre clearances go?
Basically he needs to be a better footballer

 

[sydney_gws]

Hawthorn looking good, if they win they will be very confident vs us.

 

[Giant Pete]

That was me and I just don’t think for how much he is being paid he should be top 10
Players in the comp and he is far from that and looking at how the team has lost contested ball the last 3 weeks he needs to step up and he isnt
Stats are stats and yes he can be getting 25 and a goal but 1 effective tackle and 9 contested possessions he should be getting minimum 5 tackles a game and his contested possessions should be more than uncontested or we will keep losing to bottom teams and making Stringer look like he is a star instead of the average footballer he is. That is just an example as Cogs wouldn’t match up on him but looking at the stats when the game was on the line in the last quarter how did the centre clearances go?
Basically he needs to be a better footballer

Cogs is one of about 5 that shouldn’t be questioned at this stage imo

 

[fridgeman]

All good to have different opinions and good to see supporters behind him and I do want him to succeed so hopefully we see a response on Sunday

Hoping to see an improvement in tackles and contested possessions along with ball movement out of D50

 

[Giant Pete]

Based on recent form it could get ugly against Hawthorn next week. They are way more organised and don’t turn the footy over anywhere near as easily.
We are a reasonable chance for the spoon.
Also, not unhappy about more injury news for the Tigers.

 

[sydney_gws]

Based on recent form it could get ugly against Hawthorn next week. They are way more organised and don’t turn the footy over anywhere near as easily.
We are a reasonable chance for the spoon.
Also, not unhappy about more injury news for the Tigers.

For a short time, last 12 goals are 10 -2 geelongs favour.
We will also have advantage of an extra day's rest before playing Hawthorn.
An absolute must win game.
Must beat them, north, gold coast.

 

[Giant Pete]

For a short time, last 12 goals are 10 -2 geelongs favour.
We will also have advantage of an extra day's rest before playing Hawthorn.
An absolute must win game.
Must beat them, north, gold coast.

Have you seen us play lately? If teams had kicked straight we would’ve had two 10 goal losses in a row.

 

[sydney_gws]

Have you seen us play lately? If teams had kicked straight we would’ve had two 10 goal losses in a row.

We where ok vs Carlton.
But overall, defence looks worse than last year.
Our list management is deplorable, worse than Gold Coasts if that is possible in recent years.

 

[Giant Pete]

We where ok vs Carlton.
But overall, defence looks worse than last year.
Our list management is deplorable, worse than Gold Coasts if that is possible in recent years.

Carlton kicked about 22 behinds

 

[Hendo_21]

We where ok vs Carlton.
But overall, defence looks worse than last year.
Our list management is deplorable, worse than Gold Coasts if that is possible in recent years.

What's deplorable about our list management?

 

[sydney_gws]

What's deplorable about our list management?

Paying far too much for Cognilio. We have paid way too much to trade up ( to get taranto, also Ash, also Cadman was rated about pick 5, could have got at 3 easily, at worst 2).
We started in 2012, those players are 30 this year, 27 in 2020. Across 2020 to 2023 we are making finals once ( in 2021), winning about 40% of our games with those players in the prime of their careers.
We started in 2012 with picks 1,2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15, plus the 12 17 year olds ( including treloar, Cameron, Shiel).
We then had the rights to trade another 4
17 year olds ( I think Hogan, Crouch OMeara, Jack Martin) in 2013,2014 which got us extra picks.
We had for 2013 ( I e draft in Nov 2012) picks 1,2,3. For 2014 we had 1,2. For 2015 we had 4 6,7.

Where did it all go ????

 

[Hendo_21]

Paying far too much for Cognilio. We have paid way too much to trade up ( to get taranto, also Ash, also Cadman was rated about pick 5, could have got at 3 easily, at worst 2).
We started in 2012, those players are 30 this year, 27 in 2020. Across 2020 to 2023 we are making finals once ( in 2021), winning about 40% of our games with those players in the prime of their careers.
We started in 2012 with picks 1,2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15, plus the 12 17 year olds ( including treloar, Cameron, Shiel).
We then had the rights to trade another 4
17 year olds ( I think Hogan, Crouch OMeara, Jack Martin) in 2013,2014 which got us extra picks.
We had for 2013 ( I e draft in Nov 2012) picks 1,2,3. For 2014 we had 1,2. For 2015 we had 4 6,7.

Where did it all go ????

So much of the stuff you're pointing out about happened under SOS and not the current footy ops staff, I think Caruso/Mccarthy have done well in acquiring talent. The Ash trade was to make sure we get ahead of a bid for Tom Green coming through, so we didn't really have a lot of leverage in trades talks because everyone knew we HAD to move up in order to get 2 prospects. Leon deserves a lot more blame for this team underachieving then the front office does, those teams were very talented and should performed better, Leon consistently didn't get the most out of the team after 2019.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

So much of the stuff you're pointing out about happened under SOS and not the current footy ops staff, I think Caruso/Mccarthy have done well in acquiring talent. The Ash trade was to make sure we get ahead of a bid for Tom Green coming through, so we didn't really have a lot of leverage in trades talks because everyone knew we HAD to move up in order to get 2 prospects. Leon deserves a lot more blame for this team underachieving then the front office does, those teams were very talented and should performed better, Leon consistently didn't get the most out of the team after 2019.

Imagine if Mark Williams had taken over from Sheedy as originally planned..and not Leon?

 

[GWS Goose]

Paying far too much for Cognilio. We have paid way too much to trade up ( to get taranto, also Ash, also Cadman was rated about pick 5, could have got at 3 easily, at worst 2).
We started in 2012, those players are 30 this year, 27 in 2020. Across 2020 to 2023 we are making finals once ( in 2021), winning about 40% of our games with those players in the prime of their careers.
We started in 2012 with picks 1,2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15, plus the 12 17 year olds ( including treloar, Cameron, Shiel).
We then had the rights to trade another 4
17 year olds ( I think Hogan, Crouch OMeara, Jack Martin) in 2013,2014 which got us extra picks.
We had for 2013 ( I e draft in Nov 2012) picks 1,2,3. For 2014 we had 1,2. For 2015 we had 4 6,7.

Where did it all go ????

Still under a salary cap and we needed to smooth out the age profile of the list which we have done pretty well.
But they turned those concessions into 5 finals in 6 years (with a horrendous injury list)
I think we drafted poorly 2013 to whenever SOS left.
Cognilo's signing at the time was a great signing. Others were offering a lot more. The injury hurt 20 and 21 seasons he was excellent last year and good so far this year.
The trade up for Ash had little to do with Ash and more to do with getting ahead of a bid for Green..
Cadman is an interesting situation. Clearly all the other guys at the top end didn't want come and they thought that was the safest play.
I think you are being way too critical of the list management.

 

[dlanod]

Imagine if Mark Williams had taken over from Sheedy as originally planned..and not Leon?

Unfortunately I would expect we'd have ended up more like the Suns. Say a lot about Leon's tactical nous, but Williams always came across as a bit more his way or the highway whereas Leon seemed to bring the team along with him until the last year or two, so I feel like we would have lost more players and not just the ones we deprioritised.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Fox’s review and summary ratings after the round.

GWS GIANTS
Perhaps the most frustrating element of GWS’ loss to Essendon was that the Bombers’ inaccurate kicking continually let Adam Kingsley

Adam Kingsley

Age

48

Ht

183cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

’s side in the game – but it couldn’t capitalise. After a promising start to the contest, the Giants got outworked and were wasteful with their possession, consistently turning the ball over as they struggled to execute and their system broke down. Kingsley let out his frustrations with a fierce spray to his players at three-quarter time, but it didn’t have the intended outcome as the Bombers kicked away in the last term. The final 13-point margin probably flattered GWS as it fell to 1-3 on the season.

In the votes

Although the midfield got beaten as a collective, Josh Kelly (28 disposals, 2 goals) and Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

(34 touches) fought valiantly. It even looked like Kelly was going to single-handedly pinch the game from the Bombers at one stage in the third quarter as the star on-baller looks back to some of his best form. Lachie Whitfield

6

Lachie Whitfield

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

411.8

5star

D

21.4

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.8

3star

MG

350.6

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

(24 touches) was also busy and Toby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

added two goals from 18 disposals.

Room for improvement

Kingsley revealed post-match his message to his players during his three-quarter time spray was to “get to work” — but they struggled to respond. When the game was there to be won, the Giants just didn’t look up for the fight, struggling to bring pressure on both sides of the ball and letting themselves down with basic skill execution. Their field kicking in particular was an issue all day, going at 40 per cent in inside 50 efficiency (20 shots from 50 entries). GWS will hope for a better result against Hawthorn next week.
Grade
D+

Three big A-plus winners, but two glaring fails have coaches under pressure: Report Card

Three big winners, but two glaring fails have coaches under pressure: AFL Report Card

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[BarryAglett]

Fox’s review and summary ratings after the round.

GWS GIANTS
Perhaps the most frustrating element of GWS’ loss to Essendon was that the Bombers’ inaccurate kicking continually let Adam Kingsley’s side in the game – but it couldn’t capitalise. After a promising start to the contest, the Giants got outworked and were wasteful with their possession, consistently turning the ball over as they struggled to execute and their system broke down. Kingsley let out his frustrations with a fierce spray to his players at three-quarter time, but it didn’t have the intended outcome as the Bombers kicked away in the last term. The final 13-point margin probably flattered GWS as it fell to 1-3 on the season.

In the votes

Although the midfield got beaten as a collective, Josh Kelly (28 disposals, 2 goals) and Tom Green (34 touches) fought valiantly. It even looked like Kelly was going to single-handedly pinch the game from the Bombers at one stage in the third quarter as the star on-baller looks back to some of his best form. Lachie Whitfield (24 touches) was also busy and Toby Greene added two goals from 18 disposals.

Room for improvement

Kingsley revealed post-match his message to his players during his three-quarter time spray was to “get to work” — but they struggled to respond. When the game was there to be won, the Giants just didn’t look up for the fight, struggling to bring pressure on both sides of the ball and letting themselves down with basic skill execution. Their field kicking in particular was an issue all day, going at 40 per cent in inside 50 efficiency (20 shots from 50 entries). GWS will hope for a better result against Hawthorn next week.
Grade
D+

Three big A-plus winners, but two glaring fails have coaches under pressure: Report Card

Three big winners, but two glaring fails have coaches under pressure: AFL Report Card

www.foxsports.com.au

Sounds fair. Lots of work to do. Effort and execution needs to be improved.
We still can't buy a forward 50 mark.
I gave Green my top MVP votes because, despite his occasional skill error, he looked like he was desperate at every contest.

 

[Hendo_21]

Rowston had 9 CBA's and only finished with 7 touches, think XO needs a go over him next week he needs more time to develop and him going out there and barely getting a touch is not great for his development or his confidence. Playing with one arm tied behind your back with Rowston at stoppages at the moment.

 

[GWS Goose]

Rowston had 9 CBA's and only finished with 7 touches, think XO needs a go over him next week he needs more time to develop and him going out there and barely getting a touch is not great for his development or his confidence. Playing with one arm tied behind your back with Rowston at stoppages at the moment.

think that will happen as well

I asusme Riccardi also goes out.