Academy Bidding FAQ

[dlanod]

How does academy bidding work?

During the live draft teams will be able to select our academy players with their normal pick. At this stage we now have the option to match or not. If we choose to match, we effectively move up to the nominating pick and take the nominated player but we lose picks greater than or equal in value to the nominating pick minus a discount of 20% for bids down to pick 18 or 197 points for every pick after that [http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-21/new-bidding-system-introduced-for-fatherson-and-northern-academy-players, http://www.theage.com.au/afl/injury-news/an-idiots-guide-to-the-new-afl-bidding-system-20151112-gkxg8b.html]. In most scenarios we get back a pick equivalent to the left over point value. The nominating club moves back a pick and gets to select again.

Any players nominated at pick 56 or later can be matched without any loss of points, as those picks are worth less than the set 197 point discount.

Do we get picks back?

Yes, if the nominating pick is after pick 18 [http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2015-draft-discussion.1089237/page-122#post-41328263] or if we use multiple picks to match the bid. See above for the details, but there's plenty of examples [http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf] where they do. If the nominating pick is pick 18 or before and we match that with a single pick, any left over points are not converted into picks but "are retained and used to offset any deficit arising at the conclusion of this National Draft or future National Drafts."

But the Darcy Moore example!

The Darcy Moore example falls into the exception mentioned above - the nominating pick was before pick 18. The Jack Steele example provides an alternative where using multiple picks on a first round bid results in a pick coming back.

What if we don't have picks worth enough points?

Any deficit from a bid results in the points being taken off the club's following year draft pick that's in the same round as the nominating bid. [http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-08/league-adds-safety-net-to-draft-future-picks] For example, if someone bids a third rounder on Chol and we match, even though it sends us into deficit, those points will come off our third rounder the following year. This was a recent change to not penalize clubs who want to match late bids but would otherwise not do so as it would downgrade their following year's first rounder.

What happens if we have more picks that list spots?

Teams can take as many picks as they want into a draft because of the potential use of multiple picks to match a single academy bid.


Can we miss out on a nominated academy player?

Yes, but only if we have already reached the maximum deficit allowed in a given year. Currently that is 1723 points [http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-12/afl-closes-draft-bidding-system-loophole] (the equivalent of the last pick in each round) plus any future draft picks we may have traded in.

Do we get prevented in take part in next year's bidding if we have a deficit?

Only if that deficit is greater than all of our picks in that next year's draft [http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-eyes-draft-system-kinks-20150617-ghqky4?skin=smart-phone]. Theoretically the now implemented limit (see above) means this is actually impossible.

Who is nominated as potential academy players?

Eric Hipwood, Ben Keays, Mabior Chol, Corey Wagner, Nick Weller, Reuben William [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP-csHzUwAAcXKi.jpg]

 

[dlanod]

Feel free to reply with any additional academy-related questions in this thread. The first post will be updated periodically with further FAQs as necessary.

 

[iBeng]

Im still about 97.2% lost on this Academy bidding stuff. Will be interesting to watch it in practice...With the AFL saying they are "Still coming up with" the technology to do it.

 

[AFLQLD]

This is a great resource to refer to. I really appreciate the effort that has gone into it.

I wonder if anyone will do some dummy runs with a few scenarios to see how it could happen in practice and what our strategies are.

For example, Hipwood is selected at pick 15 by someone. And Keays at pick 18. And we want Chol who gets a late third round call out.

Or is this only something that only really makes sense after trade week when the draft order is more locked in?

 

[dlanod]

This is a great resource to refer to. I really appreciate the effort that has gone into it.

I wonder if anyone will do some dummy runs with a few scenarios to see how it could happen in practice and what our strategies are.

For example, Hipwood is selected at pick 15 by someone. And Keays at pick 18. And we want Chol who gets a late third round call out.

Or is this only something that only really makes sense after trade week when the draft order is more locked in?

It's of limited benefit in forecasting because it depends on trades, other nominations and matchings, and where our players get nominated, but as an explanation tool why not?

I added some more scenarios to cover just about all of them.

Assumptions:

• Other trades, compensation picks, nominations and matchings don't affect our overall pick locations.
• We get a band 3 compensation pick for Leuenberger.
• We therefore have picks 2, 21, 22, 40 and 58 that are worth points.

Hipwood gets bid on at pick 15

Pick 15 is worth 1,112 points, so we have to produce (1112 - 20%) = 890 points.

Pick 21 is worth 878 points, so we give up that pick but we still need to produce another 12 points. That gets taken off our next pick - pick 22 - which doesn't move it at all. We move up to pick 15 and take Hipwood, with the nominating club now having pick 16.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 22, 40 and 58.

Keays gets bid on at pick 18

Pick 18 is worth 985 points, so we have to produce (985 - 20%) = 788 points.

Pick 22 is worth 845 points, so we give up that pick and get pick 69 back, since that's the closest to the 57 points left over (technically 68 is closer at 59 points instead of 49 but I'm assuming they're not giving us bonus points to move us up). We move up to pick 18 and take Keays, with the nominating club now having pick 19.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 58 and 69.

Chol gets bid on in the third round with pick 41

Pick 41 is worth 412 points, so we have to produce (412 - 197) = 215 points.

Pick 58 is worth 170 points, so we give up that pick and are 45 points short. Pick 69 is worth 49 points, so we also give up that pick and since there's no pick less than nine points in value we move to the end of the draft for that selection. We move up to pick 41 and take Chol, with the nominating club now having pick 42.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 41, and "end of draft" picks.

Wagner gets bid on in the third round with pick 47

Pick 47 is worth 316 points, so we have to produce (316 - 197) = 119 points.

We have no more picks worth any points. We choose to match and now have a deficit of 119 points heading into the 2016 draft that will come off our third round pick.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 41, 47, and "end of draft" picks, and 119 points off our 2016 third rounder.

Weller gets bid on in the fourth round with pick 56

Pick 56 is worth 194 points. Since that's worth less than the 197 point discount for picks outside the first round, we can just match with no further loss of points.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 41, 47, 56, and "end of draft" picks, and 119 points off our 2016 third rounder.

End of example

As you can we start collecting late picks because of left over points. If we don't have enough list spots these left over points and picks effectively disappear.

 

[iBeng]

Question on this bit:

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 58 and 69.

Chol gets bid on in the third round with pick 41

Pick 41 is worth 412 points, so we have to produce (412 - 197) = 215 points.

Pick 58 is worth 170 points, so we give up that pick and are 45 points short. Pick 69 is worth 49 points, so we also give up that pick and since there's no pick less than nine points in value we move to the end of the draft for that selection. We move up to pick 41 and take Chol, with the nominating club now having pick 42.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 41, and "end of draft" picks.

Before the Chol bid we had 40 there and we used 58 for Chol, why did we lose 40?

 

[Fatcat08]

Question on this bit:



Before the Chol bid we had 40 there and we used 58 for Chol, why did we lose 40?

I would assume that dlanod is implying we used pick 40 to select someone in the draft

 

[dlanod]

Question on this bit:



Before the Chol bid we had 40 there and we used 58 for Chol, why did we lose 40?

I would assume that dlanod is implying we used pick 40 to select someone in the draft

The struck through picks are the ones used at that point. It ends up the same with pick 2 - because Carlton didn't bid pick 1 in this scenario, we didn't need to use pick 2 to match anything so we just took our selection there.

 

[iBeng]

Ah OK, that makes sense. That means we wouldnt need to use pick 40 on an academy selection like, say, Wagner, since no one has bid on him and 40 can go to a different draft prospect.

 

[dlanod]

Ah OK, that makes sense. That means we wouldnt need to use pick 40 on an academy selection like, say, Wagner, since no one has bid on him and 40 can go to a different draft prospect.

Correct. We're always better off not taking an academy player with our live picks in later rounds because that 197 point discount is fairly significant. If, after trades, we end up with pick 15 and then nothing until 38 I can see an argument for taking an academy player at 15 because passing that point leaves us with fewer points to match and more likely to take a deficit into the following year. That's about the only scenario I can foresee where it's beneficial to take an academy player with a live pick.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

This is a great resource to refer to. I really appreciate the effort that has gone into it.

I wonder if anyone will do some dummy runs with a few scenarios to see how it could happen in practice and what our strategies are.

For example, Hipwood is selected at pick 15 by someone. And Keays at pick 18. And we want Chol who gets a late third round call out.

Or is this only something that only really makes sense after trade week when the draft order is more locked in?

If you want a quick reasonable accurate way of working through multiple bids
Work out what picks we have, as dlanod pointed out we should have 21,22,40,58 with the potential Leuenberger compensation
878 + 845 + 429 + 170 = 2322points
2322 x 1.25 (Loading for the 80% discount)= 2902 matching points

Then just deduct the actual value of the pick on the chart, this should help with getting a quick understanding of how the first bid will effect the rest of our points.

Note : We will lose some change, when downgrading picks as it rounded down.
Also assuming all the pick are used on academy players.

 

[SBMVJB]

Correct. We're always better off not taking an academy player with our live picks in later rounds because that 197 point discount is fairly significant. If, after trades, we end up with pick 15 and then nothing until 38 I can see an argument for taking an academy player at 15 because passing that point leaves us with fewer points to match and more likely to take a deficit into the following year. That's about the only scenario I can foresee where it's beneficial to take an academy player with a live pick.

Good work dianod that will help some people.

 

[Brod208]

Correct. We're always better off not taking an academy player with our live picks in later rounds because that 197 point discount is fairly significant. If, after trades, we end up with pick 15 and then nothing until 38 I can see an argument for taking an academy player at 15 because passing that point leaves us with fewer points to match and more likely to take a deficit into the following year. That's about the only scenario I can foresee where it's beneficial to take an academy player with a live pick.

Brilliant resource!

 

[T Rick]

It's of limited benefit in forecasting because it depends on trades, other nominations and matchings, and where our players get nominated, but as an explanation tool why not?

I added some more scenarios to cover just about all of them.

Assumptions:

• Other trades, compensation picks, nominations and matchings don't affect our overall pick locations.
• We get a band 3 compensation pick for Leuenberger.
• We therefore have picks 2, 21, 22, 40 and 58 that are worth points.

Hipwood gets bid on at pick 15

Pick 15 is worth 1,112 points, so we have to produce (1112 - 20%) = 890 points.

Pick 21 is worth 878 points, so we give up that pick but we still need to produce another 12 points. That gets taken off our next pick - pick 22 - which doesn't move it at all. We move up to pick 15 and take Hipwood, with the nominating club now having pick 16.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 22, 40 and 58.

Keays gets bid on at pick 18

Pick 18 is worth 985 points, so we have to produce (985 - 20%) = 788 points.

Pick 22 is worth 845 points, so we give up that pick and get pick 69 back, since that's the closest to the 57 points left over (technically 68 is closer at 59 points instead of 49 but I'm assuming they're not giving us bonus points to move us up). We move up to pick 18 and take Keays, with the nominating club now having pick 19.

We now effectively have picks 2, 15, 18, 40, 58 and 69.

Interesting - I just realised that in these scenarios, the nominating club has moved down a spot, i.e. from 15 to 16 or from 18 to 19. Does this act as a disadvantage for nominating clubs playing funny buggers?

 

[joshhem]

Hypothetical scenario. Carlton try to screw us over and pick one of our academy boys with pick 1. What do we do? Pass on them and go for best available?

 

[dlanod]

Hypothetical scenario. Carlton try to screw us over and pick one of our academy boys with pick 1. What do we do? Pass on them and go for best available?

Pass on them. If we match we are basically costing ourselves pick 2, which would only make sense if we actually rate the player there and given the picks involved we will know whether we rate the player who is on the board there higher than the player Carlton nominated.

 

[Fatcat08]

Hypothetical scenario. Carlton try to screw us over and pick one of our academy boys with pick 1. What do we do? Pass on them and go for best available?

Laugh our ass off with the rest of the league that Carlton gave up weitering. Not going to happen though

 

[SBMVJB]

Laugh all the way to the bank. They won't do it

 

[dlanod]

Updated with the info from Lions_Insider.

 

[Mazza44]

What happens if we trade our future third round pick and go into deficit for next year? Does it affect the pick that we on-traded or does it change our fourth round pick?

 

[dlanod]

What happens if we trade our future third round pick and go into deficit for next year? Does it affect the pick that we on-traded or does it change our fourth round pick?

Unknown. Doubt it would affect a traded pick though.

 

[lukiuslion]

Cheers for this, I was pretty confused as to the process.

 

[luthor]

Kudos Dlanod

Comprehensive and (reasonably) clear even for a dummy like me,

 

[Antman78]

Excellent write up dlanod, I have a question, what's to stop the bidding club for nominating 2 of our academy players in row, effectively removing us from the draft, that is provided that two or more of our players are rated highly and very similarly?

 

[Fatcat08]

Excellent write up dlanod, I have a question, what's to stop the bidding club for nominating 2 of our academy players in row, effectively removing us from the draft, that is provided that two or more of our players are rated highly and very similarly?

Nothing is stopping them, they're well within their rights to do so.