Academy Watch

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Fatcat08 said:
* you coming onto the Brisbane board and having pot shots at the club
*Geelong, he's certainly going to a club that is great at developing talent.
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Just to put this straight. I think the academy concept is great for the northern clubs and the development of AFL in the traditional RL areas, for a variety of reasons. One of which is players that don't make it, most don't, get to put quality training etc back into the AFL community.

I have had only 1 (one) gripe in all my time here. It was the evolution of the same problem being exposed in the academy in its failure to identify an emerging talent. The system was failing a RL convert, with impressive physical stats, with a growing AFL resume suggesting he had great potential. AFLQ was looking for exactly the type of candidate Wylie was, but for some reason wouldn't give him the opportunity others from other sports were getting.

If you can be bothered to look back 3 or so seasons ago, my gripe was a RL kid, who converted to AFL, was 6'5 (at the time) only 17, was a sports rep in most sports he played, had impressed playing AFL everywhere he went, yet he couldn't get a look in at the academy to have his development fast tracked. Wylie was 17yo when I 1st began saying he should be in the academy..

At then 17yo He was impressing with the DD Crows who went through the div2 u18 comp undefeated. He should have been headhunted by the academy then. They were looking for RL converts. Here was a perfect one with impressive physical stats.

The reasons I thought he should be included so early was there was a programme running called 'future stars' that gave kids from another sport an opportunity at a yearly carnival to impress and become part of the academy while still playing their other sport. Wylie certainly fitted well into that sort of category. Obviously he fitted it extremely well. He got drafted..


The next season he was 18yo, and played a few games for u18 QLD side. Again, the Lions FAILED to put him in their academy that year. Because of that, he wasn't in the academy at 18yo, which disqualified him as an academy draftee. It was only this year at 19yo Wylie was accepted into the academy....too late... and the Lions apologised to him.

The academies are great for the growth of AFL in the northern states for a variety of reasons. One of which, the kids who are well educated there, come back to their clubs (mostly) and pass on the new techniques etc learned from the elite training and instruction they receive.

No one is suggesting the academies are perfect. But I continually pointed out how the program was failing the type of kid they were obviously looking for. Him being drafted proves my point. Wylie showed enough early promise to have been included in the academy at 17yo, let alone 18yo! The academy failed to give Wylie his chance by including him in the academy at 18yo. If the system can fail him, it can fail another. Regardless of if you think the Lions should have drafted Wylie, ask yourself if this was handled well by the academy. Try and look at it without prejudice. Im sure a couple of you can.
 

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tigernova said:
Just to put this straight. I think the academy concept is great for the northern clubs and the development of AFL in the traditional RL areas, for a variety of reasons. One of which is players that don't make it, most don't, get to put quality training etc back into the AFL community.

I have had only 1 (one) gripe in all my time here. It was the evolution of the same problem being exposed in the academy in its failure to identify an emerging talent. The system was failing a RL convert, with impressive physical stats, with a growing AFL resume suggesting he had great potential. AFLQ was looking for exactly the type of candidate Wylie was, but for some reason wouldn't give him the opportunity others from other sports were getting.

If you can be bothered to look back 3 or so seasons ago, my gripe was a RL kid, who converted to AFL, was 6'5 (at the time) only 17, was a sports rep in most sports he played, had impressed playing AFL everywhere he went, yet he couldn't get a look in at the academy to have his development fast tracked. Wylie was 17yo when I 1st began saying he should be in the academy..

At then 17yo He was impressing with the DD Crows who went through the div2 u18 comp undefeated. He should have been headhunted by the academy then. They were looking for RL converts. Here was a perfect one with impressive physical stats.

The reasons I thought he should be included so early was there was a programme running called 'future stars' that gave kids from another sport an opportunity at a yearly carnival to impress and become part of the academy while still playing their other sport. Wylie certainly fitted well into that sort of category. Obviously he fitted it extremely well. He got drafted..


The next season he was 18yo, and played a few games for u18 QLD side. Again, the Lions FAILED to put him in their academy that year. Because of that, he wasn't in the academy at 18yo, which disqualified him as an academy draftee. It was only this year at 19yo Wylie was accepted into the academy....too late... and the Lions apologised to him.

The academies are great for the growth of AFL in the northern states for a variety of reasons. One of which, the kids who are well educated there, come back to their clubs (mostly) and pass on the new techniques etc learned from the elite training and instruction they receive.

No one is suggesting the academies are perfect. But I continually pointed out how the program was failing the type of kid they were obviously looking for. Him being drafted proves my point. Wylie showed enough early promise to have been included in the academy at 17yo, let alone 18yo! The academy failed to give Wylie his chance by including him in the academy at 18yo. If the system can fail him, it can fail another. Regardless of if you think the Lions should have drafted Wylie, ask yourself if this was handled well by the academy. Try and look at it without prejudice. Im sure a couple of you can.
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I dunno if you know him personally or not but he sucked so much as a 17 year old. Even 18 he was very ordinary compared to guys who were only new to the game. It really wasn't this year that he actually started playing ok, and not till after the champs that he really started to get going. Of course people were going to question him, a behemoth 19 year old kicking goals. Is he just monstering kids cause he's physically a lot more developed or does he actually have skill. Knowing Wyllie personally (great bloke stoked he's been drafted) I was surprised he got picked. But dunno why you keep going on with this rhetoric, especially if you know him personally. Why can't you just be stoked for him? It's tiresome and reading your passive aggressive posts all year has really been a pain the bum.
 
Leemas said:
I dunno if you know him personally or not but he sucked so much as a 17 year old. Even 18 he was very ordinary compared to guys who were only new to the game. It really wasn't this year that he actually started playing ok, and not till after the champs that he really started to get going. Of course people were going to question him, a behemoth 19 year old kicking goals. Is he just monstering kids cause he's physically a lot more developed or does he actually have skill. Knowing Wyllie personally (great bloke stoked he's been drafted) I was surprised he got picked. But dunno why you keep going on with this rhetoric, especially if you know him personally. Why can't you just be stoked for him? It's tiresome and reading your passive aggressive posts all year has really been a pain the bum.
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As a 17yo he played u18 for Mt Gravatt who won the comp. He won B&F for them that year. AND RUN 2ND IN WHOLE COMP for B&F, losing by 1 point, and if not for playing 5 games for reserve grade, he most likely would have won B&F for the whole u18 comp as a 17yo.

As an 18yo, played 1st grade for Mt Gravatt, and run 8th in the Grogan medal, against grown men.

So the facts prove you don't know what you are talking about. He's drafted, and who are you?
 
tigernova said:
As a 17yo he played u18 for Mt Gravatt who won the comp. He won B&F for them that year. AND RUN 2ND IN WHOLE COMP for B&F, losing by 1 point, and if not for playing 5 games for reserve grade, he most likely would have won B&F for the whole u18 comp as a 17yo.

As an 18yo, played 1st grade for Mt Gravatt, and run 8th in the Grogan medal, against grown men.

So the facts prove you don't know what you are talking about. He's drafted, and who are you?
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Who the F*** cares?

We didn't get someone in the academy, goodness gracious. He is drafted now, be happy as a lot of players dont get drafted at all.

I dont think Buzza cares at this stage either as he will just be stoked to have been drafted.

Time to buzz off, you are contributing nothing to this thread.
 
tigernova said:
Just to put this straight. I think the academy concept is great for the northern clubs and the development of AFL in the traditional RL areas, for a variety of reasons. One of which is players that don't make it, most don't, get to put quality training etc back into the AFL community.

I have had only 1 (one) gripe in all my time here. It was the evolution of the same problem being exposed in the academy in its failure to identify an emerging talent. The system was failing a RL convert, with impressive physical stats, with a growing AFL resume suggesting he had great potential. AFLQ was looking for exactly the type of candidate Wylie was, but for some reason wouldn't give him the opportunity others from other sports were getting.

If you can be bothered to look back 3 or so seasons ago, my gripe was a RL kid, who converted to AFL, was 6'5 (at the time) only 17, was a sports rep in most sports he played, had impressed playing AFL everywhere he went, yet he couldn't get a look in at the academy to have his development fast tracked. Wylie was 17yo when I 1st began saying he should be in the academy..

At then 17yo He was impressing with the DD Crows who went through the div2 u18 comp undefeated. He should have been headhunted by the academy then. They were looking for RL converts. Here was a perfect one with impressive physical stats.

The reasons I thought he should be included so early was there was a programme running called 'future stars' that gave kids from another sport an opportunity at a yearly carnival to impress and become part of the academy while still playing their other sport. Wylie certainly fitted well into that sort of category. Obviously he fitted it extremely well. He got drafted..


The next season he was 18yo, and played a few games for u18 QLD side. Again, the Lions FAILED to put him in their academy that year. Because of that, he wasn't in the academy at 18yo, which disqualified him as an academy draftee. It was only this year at 19yo Wylie was accepted into the academy....too late... and the Lions apologised to him.

The academies are great for the growth of AFL in the northern states for a variety of reasons. One of which, the kids who are well educated there, come back to their clubs (mostly) and pass on the new techniques etc learned from the elite training and instruction they receive.

No one is suggesting the academies are perfect. But I continually pointed out how the program was failing the type of kid they were obviously looking for. Him being drafted proves my point. Wylie showed enough early promise to have been included in the academy at 17yo, let alone 18yo! The academy failed to give Wylie his chance by including him in the academy at 18yo. If the system can fail him, it can fail another. Regardless of if you think the Lions should have drafted Wylie, ask yourself if this was handled well by the academy. Try and look at it without prejudice. Im sure a couple of you can.
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Thank you so much for you rather long and pointless diatribe. I'm guessing the guys who make a call on academy players know a little bit about AFL.

you assume that is he was part of the academy the lions would have picked him up. Not sure that's the case after all only 1 club thought him worth a shot
 
tigernova said:
As a 17yo he played u18 for Mt Gravatt who won the comp. He won B&F for them that year. AND RUN 2ND IN WHOLE COMP for B&F, losing by 1 point, and if not for playing 5 games for reserve grade, he most likely would have won B&F for the whole u18 comp as a 17yo.

As an 18yo, played 1st grade for Mt Gravatt, and run 8th in the Grogan medal, against grown men.

So the facts prove you don't know what you are talking about. He's drafted, and who are you?
Click to expand...
tigernova said:
As a 17yo he played u18 for Mt Gravatt who won the comp. He won B&F for them that year. AND RUN 2ND IN WHOLE COMP for B&F, losing by 1 point, and if not for playing 5 games for reserve grade, he most likely would have won B&F for the whole u18 comp as a 17yo.

As an 18yo, played 1st grade for Mt Gravatt, and run 8th in the Grogan medal, against grown men.

So the facts prove you don't know what you are talking about. He's drafted, and who are you?
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as someone who spends time in both QLD and VIC the QLD u18s Comp doesn't even compare. Winning the b&f for your local club in the qld u18s doesn't mean squat. The QAFL is a poor poor competition so yes I stand by my point 100%. Against men in the QAFL..... Please all the men are playing NEAFL, QAFL is more like an u19s competition than anything. Performances in the NEAFL is the only real indicator as it's the only half decent comp in QLD. And didn't perform there. well out shone by hipwood who is incredibly less physically developed than Wyllie. Which goes back to my original point of talent vs physically more developed. Now Jesus Christ man can't you just be happy?
 
Leemas said:
as someone who spends time in both QLD and VIC the QLD u18s Comp doesn't even compare. Winning the b&f for your local club in the qld u18s doesn't mean squat. The QAFL is a poor poor competition so yes I stand by my point 100%. Against men in the QAFL..... Please all the men are playing NEAFL, QAFL is more like an u19s competition than anything. Performances in the NEAFL is the only real indicator as it's the only half decent comp in QLD. And didn't perform there. well out shone by hipwood who is incredibly less physically developed than Wyllie. Which goes back to my original point of talent vs physically more developed. Now Jesus Christ man can't you just be happy?
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When Buzza got to play ruck he shone and got his NEAFL Rising Star nomination in one of the few games this year where he got to play as a full time ruck. He suffered I think from the fact that both the Qld team and his NEAFL side had ruck prospects but not much up forward. If he had played as a ruck who rested forward I think it would have better showcased him this year. He was easily the best defensive tall forward I saw this year and he really made things happen with his effort. Overall he showed good improvement over the year and I think he can make it and the Lions made a mistake not pursuing him.

I think Skinner will end up being a similar type up forward and time will tell whether either of them make it.
 
I think we all like Wylie. Good luck to him.

But I'm not sure what you're arguing. Incompetence or other agendas? All northern clubs make the best calls they can on their Academy lists - the academy staff need to do that to keep their jobs. When Wylie got picked for the academy, there was probably two other big, talented kids who got close but missed out.

Were the academy selectors slow to get onto Wylie?

Maybe, but they had also already had Chol and Hipwood developing in similar positions, and it become increasingly clear during the year that one of Weitering or Schache would end up at the club too. With Freeman, Hammelmann, and Smith, there are only so many raw project talls you can develop.
 
Geelong rate Buzza higher than we do, and so that's probably the best club for him.

Buzza is now a senior-listed AFL football, and not too many of those come from the Darling Downs. I'm sure his involvement with the Lions' academy didn't hurt his chances, so I'm chalking this up as another success.
 
Quigley said:
When Buzza got to play ruck he shone and got his NEAFL Rising Star nomination in one of the few games this year where he got to play as a full time ruck. He suffered I think from the fact that both the Qld team and his NEAFL side had ruck prospects but not much up forward. If he had played as a ruck who rested forward I think it would have better showcased him this year. He was easily the best defensive tall forward I saw this year and he really made things happen with his effort. Overall he showed good improvement over the year and I think he can make it and the Lions made a mistake not pursuing him.

I think Skinner will end up being a similar type up forward and time will tell whether either of them make it.
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There's a fair difference between where we took Skinner and where Buzza was drafted, and a fair difference between an overager and a guy who tore his acl early this season. I just don't think we would've had space for Buzza on our list even if we had nominated him.
 
carnthemlions said:
There's a fair difference between where we took Skinner and where Buzza was drafted, and a fair difference between an overager and a guy who tore his acl early this season. I just don't think we would've had space for Buzza on our list even if we had nominated him.
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There is a fair bit of difference between the amount of time that Skinner has spent in an elite program and the amount that Buzza has. I would actually prefer Buzza as a second ruck / forward which is where I see both ending up. They both have great opportunities now to step up and show what they can do. Good luck to both and we will see over time which ends up the better player.

FWIW the player I most wanted as a rookie listed player is Weller. Very raw but the kid has enormous potential. Athletically fantastic, hard at it, great defensively and really improving his contested ball winning ability. Kicking is poor at this stage but get that sorted and watch out.
 

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Quigley said:
There is a fair bit of difference between the amount of time that Skinner has spent in an elite program and the amount that Buzza has. I would actually prefer Buzza as a second ruck / forward which is where I see both ending up. They both have great opportunities now to step up and show what they can do. Good luck to both and we will see over time which ends up the better player.

FWIW the player I most wanted as a rookie listed player is Weller. Very raw but the kid has enormous potential. Athletically fantastic, hard at it, great defensively and really improving his contested ball winning ability. Kicking is poor at this stage but get that sorted and watch out.
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I liked him as well but can't see it happening unfortunately. Maybe another team will take him. Hopefully if not drafted he goes and plays some senior footy in a stronger state comp.
 
Quigley said:
There is a fair bit of difference between the amount of time that Skinner has spent in an elite program and the amount that Buzza has. I would actually prefer Buzza as a second ruck / forward which is where I see both ending up. They both have great opportunities now to step up and show what they can do. Good luck to both and we will see over time which ends up the better player.

FWIW the player I most wanted as a rookie listed player is Weller. Very raw but the kid has enormous potential. Athletically fantastic, hard at it, great defensively and really improving his contested ball winning ability. Kicking is poor at this stage but get that sorted and watch out.
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Skinner vs Wagner/Buzza will be interesting. I think we'd prefer to have another rookie spot available, but unfortunately we gave Paine a 3 year contract.
 
carnthemlions said:
Skinner vs Wagner/Buzza will be interesting. I think we'd prefer to have another rookie spot available, but unfortunately we gave Paine a 3 year contract.
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For me I'd prefer to give Buzza Archie's rookie spot if Geelong hadn't drafted him. It would be harsh on Archie though.
 
Quigley said:
FWIW the player I most wanted as a rookie listed player is Weller. Very raw but the kid has enormous potential. Athletically fantastic, hard at it, great defensively and really improving his contested ball winning ability. Kicking is poor at this stage but get that sorted and watch out.
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Weller could get another round in the NEAFL and come back as an academy player next year, ala Buzza and Freeman, if he's that raw.
 
dlanod said:
Weller could get another round in the NEAFL and come back as an academy player next year, ala Buzza and Freeman, if he's that raw.
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He was already an overager this year is there an age limit?
 
Ironmonger said:
Geelong rate Buzza higher than we do, and so that's probably the best club for him.

Buzza is now a senior-listed AFL football, and not too many of those come from the Darling Downs. I'm sure his involvement with the Lions' academy didn't hurt his chances, so I'm chalking this up as another success.
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What would Geelong know, compared to us. I mean, we chose Leuenberger before Selwood and that worked out well, didn't it?

FWIW, I think we seem to have picked up the best of our academy graduates, but it'd give me the horrors for any we let slip become another Dangerfield.
 
Just for a bit of context, almost all people I spoke to involved with clubs were expecting Wylie to get picked up in the rookie draft, if at all. So the national draft selection was a little bit of a surprise.
 
Quigley said:
There is a fair bit of difference between the amount of time that Skinner has spent in an elite program and the amount that Buzza has. I would actually prefer Buzza as a second ruck / forward which is where I see both ending up. They both have great opportunities now to step up and show what they can do. Good luck to both and we will see over time which ends up the better player.

FWIW the player I most wanted as a rookie listed player is Weller. Very raw but the kid has enormous potential. Athletically fantastic, hard at it, great defensively and really improving his contested ball winning ability. Kicking is poor at this stage but get that sorted and watch out.
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I think Weller's kicking scared a few teams off Quigs. It's pretty shaky. I reckon a lot of clubs would be inclined to see how he develops after a season in the neafl instead of using a list spot this year.

I'm a touch disappointed we didn't match Wagner as I've sung his praises on here before and am a big fan. I haven't seen Mathieson play so can't comment on the choice between the two.

Will be good to get William in the rookie draft, that's what he's worth imo. Kicking is very suspect but there's a lot to like about the rest of his game.
 
thoselionslads said:
I think Weller's kicking scared a few teams off Quigs. It's pretty shaky. I reckon a lot of clubs would be inclined to see how he develops after a season in the neafl instead of using a list spot this year.

I'm a touch disappointed we didn't match Wagner as I've sung his praises on here before and am a big fan. I haven't seen Mathieson play so can't comment on the choice between the two.

Will be good to get William in the rookie draft, that's what he's worth imo. Kicking is very suspect but there's a lot to like about the rest of his game.
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Agreed also being an overager and extremely raw puts him further behind. I thought he looked very capable though considering how little footy he had played.
 
thoselionslads said:
I think Weller's kicking scared a few teams off Quigs. It's pretty shaky. I reckon a lot of clubs would be inclined to see how he develops after a season in the neafl instead of using a list spot this year.

I'm a touch disappointed we didn't match Wagner as I've sung his praises on here before and am a big fan. I haven't seen Mathieson play so can't comment on the choice between the two.

Will be good to get William in the rookie draft, that's what he's worth imo. Kicking is very suspect but there's a lot to like about the rest of his game.
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Yeah kicking the big weakness. As I mentioned in my write up of him I would treat him as an Irish recruit and aim to build from the ground up. I like that he has more pace than anyone who tested at the Combine this year and that is something which our team really needs. Additionally the defensive effort he brings is also something different. Anyway not to be and I hope like Buzza another team picks him up and gives him a chance.
 
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