Toast All things Paul Roos + Coaching: McCartney joins coaches

[Demon 16]

Obviously its your opinion so I wont argue to much but I agree that Voss would improve more
Because Ratten is already better than him

Yeh Ratten has better runs on the board as a tactical coach - but that was mostly his midfield work, and as I said, we have George Stone.

Don't underestimate Voss' ability though. He had a terrible list (and some poor recruiting decisions that set him back) - and his sacking was not for poor performance (just like Ratten incidentally). The guy has worked with some excellent coaches, and let's not forget he was a 3 x premiership captain and one of the best players of all time - and he's an excellent analyst and communicator in the media so he knows his way around the game.

But it's probably Voss' relationship and leadership ability that sets them apart mostly in my opinion.

 

[Topkent]

Yeh Ratten has better runs on the board as a tactical coach - but that was mostly his midfield work, and as I said, we have George Stone.

Don't underestimate Voss' ability though. He had a terrible list (and some poor recruiting decisions that set him back) - and his sacking was not for poor performance (just like Ratten incidentally). The guy has worked with some excellent coaches, and let's not forget he was a 3 x premiership captain and one of the best players of all time - and he's an excellent analyst and communicator in the media so he knows his way around the game.

But it's probably Voss' relationship and leadership ability that sets them apart mostly in my opinion.

I dont at all, I rate Ratten > Voss but I would be happy with either of them

 

[Demon 16]

I dont at all, I rate Ratten > Voss but I would be happy with either of them

Yeh look, Voss having a limited involvement in terms of spending pretty much 100% of his career at the Lions is an issue. He hasn't ever been outside of that footy club.

Ratten has at least done the rounds being at Melbourne, Carlton and Hawthorn.

I wouldn't proclaim to be definitively correct on this one, just my personal preference.

 

[Topkent]

Yeh look, Voss having a limited involvement in terms of spending pretty much 100% of his career at the Lions is an issue. He hasn't ever been outside of that footy club.

Ratten has at least done the rounds being at Melbourne, Carlton and Hawthorn.

I wouldn't proclaim to be definitively correct on this one, just my personal preference.

Its just my view that Carlton were a game off being a top 4 with a list thats pretty similar to what malthouse has now only younger
Ratten was too attacking and there is no better coach to learn defensive philosophy off than Roos
Was Fired only so they could get Malthouse and should still be the coach IMO

Similarly Voss stuffed up recruiting early but he stuck it out and he had really turned brisbane around to the point where they knocked off Geelong and had built a good young midfield with a lack of quality draft picks, yet he too was also fired prematurely

 

[CTHORANGE]

Would anyone consider Peter Sumich? Or would he just not leave WA..

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Do we know that Voss isn't part of the reason why half the Lions list tried leaving every year?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Do we know that Voss isn't part of the reason why half the Lions list tried leaving every year?

Yeah, he was... the exodus was rumored well before he was sacked.

 

[Djcjdees]

Ge

Yeah, he was... the exodus was rumored well before he was sacked.

I watched alot of the lions last year and he had them playing some pretty decent footy at towards the end of the season. Far be it from us to come on here and criticise him/lions when they were streets and suburbs, nay, countries ahead of us..

 

[Captain Jack]

It sounds to me like there were some boardroom/admin issues with the Lions as well as Voss (who may be a bit of an egomaniac) which led to the exodus.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

The boardroom issues can probably contributed to problems in the FD but I doubt 1st/2nd/3rd year players would be aware of those problems - and they were the ones who left.

The guys past that early stage did seem pretty loyal to Vossy though.

 

[Captain Jack]

The guys past that early stage did seem pretty loyal to Vossy though.

Well why wouldn't they be? Champion of the club, triple premiership captain... such a short-sighted move by the Board to sack him with no gun replacement lined up. It will set the club back years, and they can't afford that up in a very tough Brisbane market.

Re: the young blokes who left, maybe it was more a case of the club being hamstrung in the development and welfare areas. Also Voss spinning the selection wheel every other week may not have helped. At some point he needed to give those young guys a decent run at it to get some consistency at AFL level - although guys like Polec maybe weren't up to it at the time.

 

[Klyntonius]

re: the young players walking out of Brisbane, I'm pretty sure Voss mentioned sending a report to the board about a lack of funding for player development and welfare or something towards retaining the young talent. I took it as not having the resources to help the young players overcome homesickness and the like rather than a falling out with the coach.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Well why wouldn't they be? Champion of the club, triple premiership captain... such a short-sighted move by the Board to sack him with no gun replacement lined up. It will set the club back years, and they can't afford that up in a very tough Brisbane market.

Re: the young blokes who left, maybe it was more a case of the club being hamstrung in the development and welfare areas. Also Voss spinning the selection wheel every other week may not have helped. At some point he needed to give those young guys a decent run at it to get some consistency at AFL level - although guys like Polec maybe weren't up to it at the time.

re: the young players walking out of Brisbane, I'm pretty sure Voss mentioned sending a report to the board about a lack of funding for player development and welfare or something towards retaining the young talent. I took it as not having the resources to help the young players overcome homesickness and the like rather than a falling out with the coach.

You guys are probably right, but being 'hamstrung' and not having the 'resources'? Welfare and development would be more about quality of people rather then numbers or $$$.

I'm sure Brisbane had a similar set up to most other clubs, they might just have had the wrong people - not unlike us.

 

[Dory_77]

You guys are probably right, but being 'hamstrung' and not having the 'resources'? Welfare and development would be more about quality of people rather then numbers or $$$.

I'm sure Brisbane had a similar set up to most other clubs, they might just have had the wrong people - not unlike us.

More $$$ gives better people better incentives to go to their club. Also gives them the opportunity to be more diligent in the recruitment process if they get more chances to assess the candidates or get extra support staff in to help out the existing staff. Having the wrong people may well have been the problem, but that itself would be partly caused due to a lack of resources.

 

[Klyntonius]

You guys are probably right, but being 'hamstrung' and not having the 'resources'? Welfare and development would be more about quality of people rather then numbers or $$$.

I'm sure Brisbane had a similar set up to most other clubs, they might just have had the wrong people - not unlike us.

I'd have thought so too but this is what Voss had to say:

The Lions saw a mass exodus of some talented young players at the end of last season and Voss said he had foreshadowed the situation arising well before it occurred.

Voss wrote an official report to the club's board asking for more resources to help retain the Lions' young players.

"We had an opportunity in 2012 to ensure we put the right resources around them and we didn’t do it for whatever reason," he said.

"In the report I filed to the executive of the club at the time, I highlighted that if we don't get this right, retention will be a major issue for the club in the very near future."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-06/roos-chase-got-me-sacked

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

If there was a good club environment the young guys wouldn't need to be retained, I'm not saying Vossy is at fault - just that he was part of a dysfunctional club and therefore I wouldn't want him at ours.

You can never know what really happened behind closed doors, I'm sure the board could tell a different story to what happened.

 

[Klyntonius]

I guess all I'm getting at was that Voss already saw the problems in their environment for keeping the young players and sought to address with the board who didn't act, hence the exodus, as opposed to having a bad relationship with the players and being surprised when they all wanted to leave. FWIW, he's a few down my list of preferred succeeding candidates but if that's the way we go then I won't be microwaving my membership. I'll leave that to Richmond fans when Hardwick isn't sacked at years end.

 

[Demon 16]

Do we know that Voss isn't part of the reason why half the Lions list tried leaving every year?

I know a player a Brisbane and Voss wasnt the issue - they love him.

 

[mrmonkey]

Yes I agree I don't think Voss was the reason players left. I think there was some concerns about player welfare. Something in board level stinks.

 

[Demon 16]

Yes I agree I don't think Voss was the reason players left. I think there was some concerns about player welfare. Something in board level stinks.

I think there were a number of factors;

• outside of the club, they did an average job getting players settled in Brisbane
• they were unlucky in that players knew Brisbane was likely to be a cellar dweller for the foreseeable future
• they were also a little unlucky to have a few guys who basically just wanted to go home
• the unstable political environment probably contributed, but only in a minor way

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

re: Voss/exodus..

Voss' sacking was the reason for the exodus, had nothing to do with him/or his coaching...The player rumblings about unhappiness started when he was sacked mid season, heaps of players were unappy with him getting the arse and with the board going against what the players wanted (Voss to continue). Players dont play out the year like they did unless the have their coaches back, the proof was in the pudding.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

re: Voss/exodus..

Voss' sacking was the reason for the exodus, had nothing to do with him/or his coaching...The player rumblings about unhappiness started when he was sacked mid season, heaps of players were unappy with him getting the arse and with the board going against what the players wanted (Voss to continue). Players dont play out the year like they did unless the have their coaches back, the proof was in the pudding.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...p-player-walkout/story-fni5f4q3-1226696604637

I know Voss has tried to re-write history, but those players all were rumored to want out BEFORE Vossy was sacked.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...p-player-walkout/story-fni5f4q3-1226696604637

I know Voss has tried to re-write history, but those players all were rumored to want out BEFORE Vossy was sacked.

The underlying reason he was sacked is because they wanted Roos, the board had to come up with some other story incase they didnt get Roos

Im not saying the players would have stayed if Voss was there, but you dont play out a season like they did if you cant wait to get onto the next one, thats enough for me to say the players were backing the coach. The board and how broke they IMO were the determining factors that led to a player revolt.

Spin doctoring at its finest by a board led by a complete moron (Angus Johnson) who had to be booted from the club after he was asked to stand down and refused to. Seriously, what president puts his own agenda's ahead of the football club he is supposed to care for?

Im not saying you are wrong and im right, this is just the way i saw it.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

Congrats.

He's done good things for your club. I think I've seen alot of improvement in guys like Watts and Toumpas this season.

Hope it continues.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Congrats.

He's done good things for your club. I think I've seen alot of improvement in guys like Watts and Toumpas this season.

Hope it continues.

Now say that again with a straight face...