Live Event AMA: Transgender Player Kirsti Miller

[kirsti]

Good on ya Kirsti. Hopefully one day soon we can rid this country of the horrible xenophobia that's plagued it for too long (starting by voting out our ******** Prime Minister so members of the LGBT community are recognised as people too). Those inevitable days will come when it feels like everyone and everything is against you, and I know I may not understand what you're going through but I, like many others here, accept it, and that's all people need to do. I wish you all the best and I hope one day our society rids itself of the notion of perfection and self-righteousness so we are free to exist and enjoy our short lives (in the grand scheme of things) as the flawed human beings we are.

Thank you so much for your lovely comments they are very much appreciated

 

[kirsti]

Hi everyone I hope you all are enjoying the start of the 2016Afl season. Unfortunately both my partner Nikki and myself still have not found a football home due to every club in Broken Hill either denying or ignoring our applications to join their clubs. We have made contact with Disability Sports Australia and are in the process of lodging a formal complaint against the Nsw/Act AFL. I will keep you all informed.

luckily we still have soccer to keep us both fit but it is not out chosen sport we are two fanatical AFL Ladies.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

kirtsi, when I was playing football most recruitment occurred with people turning up to training out of the blue. I reckon the both of you just pick a side, rock up to training, put in a couple of sessions and then ask "where do I sign?"

 

[simba_]

Hi everyone I hope you all are enjoying the start of the 2016Afl season. Unfortunately both my partner Nikki and myself still have not found a football home due to every club in Broken Hill either denying or ignoring our applications to join their clubs. We have made contact with Disability Sports Australia and are in the process of lodging a formal complaint against the Nsw/Act AFL. I will keep you all informed.

luckily we still have soccer to keep us both fit but it is not out chosen sport we are two fanatical AFL Ladies.

are you trying to join men or womens teams?

 

[estibador]

The current 100m Women's record holder Britte Steffin would have finished in 8th place at the 1976 Olympics in the men's 100m swimming final, since 1976 the men have improved the world record by 3.38 seconds and women have lowered their record by over 3.5 seconds the gap is closing

But much of that can probably be put down to advances in doping techniques at that level (which are often more relatively effective in women given their lower starting base - hence the tendency for institutionalised doping programs in countries like East Germany and China to result in more success in their female athletes than the men).

I'm not sure how much the results of the elite level like that can be extrapolated out to your normal weekend sportspeople.

 

[estibador]

I saw someone ask about transgender players in the AFL earlier - considering we would be talking about the reverse direction (female to male) is that even a possibility given they would presumably have to be on hormone therapy that would contravene the WADA code?

kirsti (or anyone who knows) what is the IOC's stance on female to male transgender athletes who are taking testosterone and the like?

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I saw someone ask about transgender players in the AFL earlier - considering we would be talking about the reverse direction (female to male) is that even a possibility given they would presumably have to be on hormone therapy that would contravene the WADA code?

kirsti (or anyone who knows) what is the IOC's stance on female to male transgender athletes who are taking testosterone and the like?

I'm assuming it MAY be allowed as it's possible for athletes to be granted therapeutic use exemptions for medical reasons.

Messi the soccer player was on human growth hormone for most of his youth as he was tiny.

MMA had a problem recently with guys using testosterone replacement therapy due to low testosterone, but that had been stampt out for a wide range of reasons.

also there is a male to female transgender MMA fighter who fights women and she had absolutely slaughtered girls who claim she's the strongest female they have ever fought, so in there opinion they were at a disadvantage, but she has also been finished before.

such a doozy of an issue but without fairly concrete evidence that a transgender person holds no unfair size, strength or athletic advantage in a contact sport I don't think it's discrimination to not allow them to compete.

it probably needs to be decided on a case by case basis and if there is no advantage and your still not allowed to compete then it's probably an education issue.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

are you trying to join men or womens teams?

Asked and answered in post 13.

 

[jiphoc]

Hi everyone I hope you all are enjoying the start of the 2016Afl season. Unfortunately both my partner Nikki and myself still have not found a football home due to every club in Broken Hill either denying or ignoring our applications to join their clubs. We have made contact with Disability Sports Australia and are in the process of lodging a formal complaint against the Nsw/Act AFL. I will keep you all informed.

luckily we still have soccer to keep us both fit but it is not out chosen sport we are two fanatical AFL Ladies.

Ok can some legal guru answer a quick query I have about the above. If a team has a female side already would denying or deliberately ignoring a request not be illegal?

Kirsti, loved reading this thread and I hope you are going well. Have the AFL got a contact that may be able to help? Surely they have a list of contacts in the leagues around the country which will be able to place you in a team.

 

[Toump Ass]

Hi everyone I hope you all are enjoying the start of the 2016Afl season. Unfortunately both my partner Nikki and myself still have not found a football home due to every club in Broken Hill either denying or ignoring our applications to join their clubs. We have made contact with Disability Sports Australia and are in the process of lodging a formal complaint against the Nsw/Act AFL. I will keep you all informed.

luckily we still have soccer to keep us both fit but it is not out chosen sport we are two fanatical AFL Ladies.

Good luck Kirsti, I hope you and your partner find a team soon

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

The fact that most people are responding positively and respectively says a lot about the positive movement of our society. The goons answering reminds us we still have a ways to go.

Very brave by you, Kirsti.

 

[kirsti]

kirtsi, when I was playing football most recruitment occurred with people turning up to training out of the blue. I reckon the both of you just pick a side, rock up to training, put in a couple of sessions and then ask "where do I sign?"

Thankyou Rusty, There are only four teams in Broken Hill my partner used to play for Broken Hill Centrals her last game for this club was the 2013 Grand final where she attained the BOG Medal. My partner is a local lady who is generally regarded as the most gifted female soccer and AFL player in Broken Hill. Nikki is a former Australian Soccer Representative. Nikkis' old team held a player vote to see if they wanted a woman from a trans background playing in their team which is highly illegal. The female players had no problem with me playing the club board formerly rejected my application for membership and I am only able to find out the reasons why if I sign a confidentiality agreement. As Broken Hill is a small city most of the female soccer players are the same woman that play AFL. I was voted by my soccer team to be the team captain during last seasons pre season competition and I have never had a problems with any of the other female players.

We have sought out assistance from the Nsw/ACT Afl to find a team as per the recommendations from the mediation sessions held over the initial vilification incident. The AFL hold the stance that they have no control over any individual club and each club can deny or accept membership.

The question of my eligibly to play has never been in question and had never been the issue. I meet all the criteria of both the AFL and the IOC to compete as a female my true gender.

I am not very good at linking things but there are two great interviews with both Tom Harley and myself on Joy 94.7 FM the Rainbow Report .

 

[kirsti]

The fact that most people are responding positively and respectively says a lot about the positive movement of our society. The goons answering reminds us we still have a ways to go.

Very brave by you, Kirsti.

I agree we do have a long long way to go but yes the pendulum is swinging and the general public are starting to he educated that is why I originally agreed to partake in this thread than assist in this education process. I am super impressed with the thought and compassion that has been evident in most of the posts within this thread.

 

[kirsti]

Good luck Kirsti, I hope you and your partner find a team soon

Thankyou and we hope so as well. Although it would be great to play again my main focus is to ensure education takes place and no transgender child has to endure the abuse I was subjected to in the future.

 

[kirsti]

are you trying to join men or womens teams?

I am a female it is not legal for me to play AFL in the males league.

 

[kirsti]

Ok can some legal guru answer a quick query I have about the above. If a team has a female side already would denying or deliberately ignoring a request not be illegal?

Kirsti, loved reading this thread and I hope you are going well. Have the AFL got a contact that may be able to help? Surely they have a list of contacts in the leagues around the country which will be able to place you in a team.

Thankyou for your question, to answer the first part if your question yes denying me the right to play based on my transgender background is illegal in all sports up to and including International Olympic Level.

The second part of your question is that we have gone through all official channels with the common stance being every individual club can deny or accept membership of any player and the AFL has no say in this. I have received a written message from the Chair person of the Broken Hill AFL who asked both Nikki and I to play soccer as it had a lower sporting profile.

 

[kirsti]

I'm assuming it MAY be allowed as it's possible for athletes to be granted therapeutic use exemptions for medical reasons.

Messi the soccer player was on human growth hormone for most of his youth as he was tiny.

MMA had a problem recently with guys using testosterone replacement therapy due to low testosterone, but that had been stampt out for a wide range of reasons.

also there is a male to female transgender MMA fighter who fights women and she had absolutely slaughtered girls who claim she's the strongest female they have ever fought, so in there opinion they were at a disadvantage, but she has also been finished before.

such a doozy of an issue but without fairly concrete evidence that a transgender person holds no unfair size, strength or athletic advantage in a contact sport I don't think it's discrimination to not allow them to compete.

it probably needs to be decided on a case by case basis and if there is no advantage and your still not allowed to compete then it's probably an education issue.

Please read earlier posts in this thread re the Stockholm Consensus and it will answer the most part of your questions.

In all sports not every player is the same height, weight, not everyone has the same strength endurance, skills or ability. Just being born in a male body doesn't automatically make you a great athlete.

Broken Hill has some amazing female athletes including my partner Nikki who can out kick most of the males in Broken Hill AFL or Soccer. Do we start banning any female that has more talent more strength more skill etc?

 

[Schauermann]

Transgender seems an impossible to solve issue when it comes to all sports divided into men and women. Imagine Sandilands wanting to play women's league...

 

[YippeeYiYeo]

Hi kirsti just got a couple of questions.

1) You mentioned (and seem to be quite passionate about it) that all you want is education. What would be say, the 3 main things you want to educate the wider community on when it comes to transgender people?

2) I see you and YES! YES! YES! Are talking about mixed competitions. Yes the gap is closing, but there is still a significant gap between the average male and the average female (not talking about gender - talking about sex) in muscle mass etc. I'd argue that there is still as much of a need to have mens and womens comps as there U18's and U16's etc, based on average sizes and fitness. Sure you get the odd woman who can compete at the male level (your partner Nikki), but surely this can be done on a case-by-case basis? I'm not trying to be offensive, I welcome an explanation that can change my view. I just think of examples when the 200th ranked or something male tennis player thrashed the Williams sisters...the end of 'gender binomial segregation' and picking teams on merits would still result in all males teams mostly (I think - I'm using this as a fantastic opportunity for a learning experience), so is it not easier to just seperate anyway?

3) Are you aware of other transgender sports players in Australia - of course respecting privacy, would you say your case (of being threatened and harrassed) is 'the norm' or you were just unlucky to have bigots in your area?

Thanks. Hope my questions are clear.

im also interested in what Kirsti has to say about these questions. And one of my own - Kirsti do you think your age has anything to do with clubs not taking you on? The last amateur footy club i was a sports trainer with and the oldest player there was 45. Youre in your 50's now. This probably sounds offensive, but at a certain age even for amateur footy players everyone has to give the game away. Especially aussie rules being a contact sport.

Cheers

 

[kirsti]

I saw someone ask about transgender players in the AFL earlier - considering we would be talking about the reverse direction (female to male) is that even a possibility given they would presumably have to be on hormone therapy that would contravene the WADA code?

kirsti (or anyone who knows) what is the IOC's stance on female to male transgender athletes who are taking testosterone and the like?

I am not fully aware of the IOC,s stance on Female to Male Transgender Athletes that are taking testosterone.

 

[kirsti]

Transgender seems an impossible to solve issue when it comes to all sports divided into men and women. Imagine Sandilands wanting to play women's league...

Its not an impossible issue nothing is impossible. The day I was originally vilified there was a young 13 year old trans person watching this abuse take place. This young person also a passionate AFL Player contacted me on the night of the original vilification incident in a very suicidal state, this young person said "Kirsti you are a strong lady and look what happened to you I might as well kill myself than have that happen to me". I promised this young person that I would see this through to the end and educate both Broken Hill and the AFL.

I am pleased to say my young friend is healthy today and is gaining confidence within herself.

The IOC's Stockholm Consensus was decided in 2003. No male has transitioned into a female during this 13 year period and gone on to compete at the Olympic Games.

Never once have I sought out for anyone to be punished for the abuse I suffered all I have ever wanted was for education to take place as the self harm rate of transgender youth is forty times higher than the greater community. Given this statistic the only thing that s impossible is that I give up on my fight for greater acceptance of transgender people.

 

[kirsti]

im also interested in what Kirsti has to say about these questions. And one of my own - Kirsti do you think your age has anything to do with clubs not taking you on? The last amateur footy club i was a sports trainer with and the oldest player there was 45. Youre in your 50's now. This probably sounds offensive, but at a certain age even for amateur footy players everyone has to give the game away. Especially aussie rules being a contact sport.

Cheers

No my age had never been the issue, there are several women older than I that play both Soccer and AFL in Broken Hill.

 

[kirsti]

Totally missed this thread. Thanks for popping in kirsti - hope you stick around and take part on BigFooty.

I am loving being a member of BigFooty especially game day hanging with my fellow Eagles Fans it really makes me feel part of a footy family again my Bigfooty Status is now as Team Captain.

 

[Ando727]

I only just found this thread today. I have one question, Kirsti. Earlier you were saying that the medication you take has resulted in dropping your testosterone levels significantly below the average female - thereby reducing your strength and endurance below the average female also. I was wondering whether it's possible to moderate your dose of this medication such that you are in the usual testosterone range? Would that not be better for you, health-wise, energy-wise? Or is there a reason why you opt to keep it lower? i.e. management of gender characteristics? I hope that's not too prying a question.

 

[kirsti]

I only just found this thread today. I have one question, Kirsti. Earlier you were saying that the medication you take has resulted in dropping your testosterone levels significantly below the average female - thereby reducing your strength and endurance below the average female also. I was wondering whether it's possible to moderate your dose of this medication such that you are in the usual testosterone range? Would that not be better for you, health-wise, energy-wise? Or is there a reason why you opt to keep it lower? i.e. management of gender characteristics? I hope that's not too prying a question.

Defiantly not to prying. Upon commencing hormone replacement therapy for a male to female transgender person the HRT includes taking oestrogen (female hormone) to enhance the physical characteristics of a female ie the growth of breast, the redistribution of fat, softening of the skin and hair etc. Additionally an anti androgen is administered to reduce the.production of testosterone ie ( chemically castrated). This enables the oestrogen regime to have the maximum affect Being a post operative lady I produce far less naturally occurring testosterone than genetically born females. My oestrogen levels are within the normal female range. My testosterone levels are lower than that of a genetically born female. Many post op ladies have to have testosterone supplements due to poor stamina and energy levels. I do not and never have had any testosterone supplements as this would be detrimental to the gender characteristics I have achieved throughout my 16 years of transition. To enable me to compete up to Olympic Level as a female I would not be able to take testosterone as the same as any athlete male or female testosterone is a performance enhancing regime.