Bitcoin & Bitcoin Mining

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Scotland said:
Sounds a bit pointless.
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Moving large amounts of cash internationally is an enormous PITA and hideously expensive. Also many nation states have a lot of restrictions on what you can take out of the country.

Stablecoins can be easily and cheaply moved around the world and then you only need to deal with the banking system once and you can do it somewhere convenient.

Basically a tool for money laundering/tax evasion/funneling wealth out of countries that make it a hassle.
 

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Scotland said:
Sounds a bit pointless.
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Simple Jack said:
Moving large amounts of cash internationally is an enormous PITA and hideously expensive. Also many nation states have a lot of restrictions on what you can take out of the country.

Stablecoins can be easily and cheaply moved around the world and then you only need to deal with the banking system once and you can do it somewhere convenient.

Basically a tool for money laundering/tax evasion/funneling wealth out of countries that make it a hassle.
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And the question is what is really backing those tokens. Tether is current “printing” tens of millions of tokens per day. The likelihood of having $21B of ready liquid assets backing those tokens is * all.
 
I've been hearing for years about how great cryptocurrencies are because they are decentralised and finite. 'It's a store of wealth', 'It's like gold', 'Fiat is bad'. Etc.

Bitcoin is only valuable because enough people are convinced that having some amount of a finite thing (of no intrinsic value) is worthwhile. Which is fine, but if every BTC had a predetermined value of 1 US dollar (or 10c or $1000, whatever fixed ratio) then very few people would give a s**t. People want to 'mine' it and have it worth more than the cost of doing that, or they want to buy it and have it go up in value.

There are definite applications for improved transactability going forward but I doubt there will be much enthusiasm for tokens/coins that are just worth a Euro when you can just buy the next thing that's worth a few cents and hope it goes up 1000%.
 
I have considered this matter and have made my decision :

This a bubble rather than a Ponzi scheme.

It has too many ‘players’ to be a Ponzi. No-one is about to run off with the riches. Bitcoin already rose to $30,000 AUD, fell to $4000 and has now leapt to $50,000. For it to be a definite Ponzi when the rug was pulled out, there would be nothing underneath, not the $4000 AUD to BTC that remained. There aren’t many spruikers; this thing rolls around without them.

It’s a good old fashioned bubble. At some point it will burst. I’m not sure why it slipped back to $4000 last time but I suppose all it needs is enough big hitters cashing to reduce the price back by $10,000 AUD to BTC and the bulls will turn into lemmings.

$55,000 for 1 one Bitcoin, that’s $55,000 for some numbers on a computer screen. You can buy things with them but not many people are.That’s about it.

I might go to Bunnings and buy some $2 tulip bulbs and see if my neighbours will give me $500 for each one.
 
I'm reminded of an anecdote from years ago. Someone (I think it was Scott Hanselman) bought a $5 USB cable from some website that supported bitcoin payment - because it was the new and techy thing to do! And probably blog about. He laughed during the last bubble about how much he actually ended up paying for that $5 cable.
 
bresker said:
I have considered this matter and have made my decision :

This a bubble rather than a Ponzi scheme.

It has too many ‘players’ to be a Ponzi. No-one is about to run off with the riches. Bitcoin already rose to $30,000 AUD, fell to $4000 and has now leapt to $50,000. For it to be a definite Ponzi when the rug was pulled out, there would be nothing underneath, not the $4000 AUD to BTC that remained. There aren’t many spruikers; this thing rolls around without them.

It’s a good old fashioned bubble. At some point it will burst. I’m not sure why it slipped back to $4000 last time but I suppose all it needs is enough big hitters cashing to reduce the price back by $10,000 AUD to BTC and the bulls will turn into lemmings.

$55,000 for 1 one Bitcoin, that’s $55,000 for some numbers on a computer screen. You can buy things with them but not many people are.That’s about it.

I might go to Bunnings and buy some $2 tulip bulbs and see if my neighbours will give me $500 for each one.
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Tulip mania was a one time bubble. Bitcoin has gone through several bubbles in its short lifetime. Yes, this one will burst too at some stage just like the others, but it's highly likely that prices will rise past this in the next bubble.

The view that bitcoin is just numbers on a screen doesn't give justice to what bitcoin really is. It's something of a social experiment, and hardcore bitcoiners have a religious adherence to their belief in the future of bitcoin. I personally think there's a greater than 50% chance that we'll see a $1,000,000 USD price for bitcoin within the next 10 years.

Call me nuts, but I think bitcoin is still cheap at $50,000 AUD.

For anyone who wants to learn about bitcoin, this book is recommended by many:
www.booktopia.com.au

The Bitcoin Standard

Booktopia has The Bitcoin Standard, The Decentralized Alternative to Central Banking by Saifedean Ammous. Buy a discounted Hardcover of The Bitcoin Standard online from Australia's leading online bookstore.
www.booktopia.com.au www.booktopia.com.au
 
Evolved1 said:
Tulip mania was a one time bubble. Bitcoin has gone through several bubbles in its short lifetime. Yes, this one will burst too at some stage just like the others, but it's highly likely that prices will rise past this in the next bubble.

The view that bitcoin is just numbers on a screen doesn't give justice to what bitcoin really is. It's something of a social experiment, and hardcore bitcoiners have a religious adherence to their belief in the future of bitcoin. I personally think there's a greater than 50% chance that we'll see a $1,000,000 USD price for bitcoin within the next 10 years.

Call me nuts, but I think bitcoin is still cheap at $50,000 AUD.

For anyone who wants to learn about bitcoin, this book is recommended by many:
www.booktopia.com.au

The Bitcoin Standard

Booktopia has The Bitcoin Standard, The Decentralized Alternative to Central Banking by Saifedean Ammous. Buy a discounted Hardcover of The Bitcoin Standard online from Australia's leading online bookstore.
www.booktopia.com.au www.booktopia.com.au
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You’re nuts.

The price of BTC is being pumped by Tether. They are “printing” hundreds of millions of USDT a week and that Magic fairy dust is being used to purchase BTC.

The asset base being used to back Tethers (the liquidity used to turn Tethers into fiat) is a black box, but increasingly it seems part of the $24B in assets allegedly backing is actually BTC. That’s some circular s**t.
 
Messenger said:
You’re nuts.

The price of BTC is being pumped by Tether. They are “printing” hundreds of millions of USDT a week and that Magic fairy dust is being used to purchase BTC.

The asset base being used to back Tethers (the liquidity used to turn Tethers into fiat) is a black box, but increasingly it seems part of the $24B in assets allegedly backing is actually BTC. That’s some circular sh*t.
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Take it to the conspiracy board, mate. ;)

The tether allegations first did the rounds in 2017, went quiet during the bear market, and are now doing the round again as price increases. Tether/Bitfinex are dodgy for sure, but I'm not convinced they're the reason for this bull market. Market price has followed the TA nicely.

If tether goes balls up, the show will go on in my opinion. It could bring in new money from those sitting on the sidelines worried about tether...after a hickup. I have some concerns about USDT which is why I use USDC for my stablecoin holdings, but I'm not convinced they're printing out of thin air.

I'm fairly confident we'll see a 60k-100k USD bitcoin this year irrespective of USDT drama.
 
Evolved1 said:
Take it to the conspiracy board, mate. ;)

The tether allegations first did the rounds in 2017, went quiet during the bear market, and are now doing the round again as price increases. Tether/Bitfinex are dodgy for sure, but I'm not convinced they're the reason for this bull market. Market price has followed the TA nicely.

If tether goes balls up, the show will go on in my opinion. It could bring in new money from those sitting on the sidelines worried about tether...after a hickup. I have some concerns about USDT which is why I use USDC for my stablecoin holdings, but I'm not convinced they're printing out of thin air.

I'm fairly confident we'll see a 60k-100k USD bitcoin this year irrespective of USDT drama.
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LOL.

I thought this was interesting. Tether appears to be pumping the bubble hard and there is going to be a significant correction.

Tether have to file with the US authorities soon so we’ll see.

 
Messenger said:
LOL.

I thought this was interesting. Tether appears to be pumping the bubble hard and there is going to be a significant correction.

Tether have to file with the US authorities soon so we’ll see.

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I've been following the tether controversy since 2017, and there isn't a lot of new material in that article. They were subpoenaed by the CTFC in 2017. Their biggest critics have been anonymous online posters called Bitfinex'ed, who sold his bitcoin for around $2,000 US before it pumped to $20,000 US, and cryptowhale who has been shorting bitcoin since around $10,000 US in 2020.

If tether goes down, the market will pump with 24 billion USD of tethers being used to market buy bitcoin and shitcoins on exchanges. It will be great!
 

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Messenger said:
And the question is what is really backing those tokens. Tether is current “printing” tens of millions of tokens per day. The likelihood of having $21B of ready liquid assets backing those tokens is fu** all.
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Oh absolutely. Hold it at your peril.

But it essentially works the same way as any other fiat currency peg. As long as everyone believes that you can go to some authoritative place and exchange at 1:1 (+/- spread) the market will naturally coalesce around that price negating the need for the backing assets (at whatever rate they actually exist) to be dipped into.

Cryptocurrency even moreso, but it's quite sobering to reflect on how much of the global finance system is really a house of cards that only holds up as long as a collective belief is maintained.
 
Caesar said:
I wish people would stop bumping this thread and reminding me that I thought Bitcoin was overpriced at $196.
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I thought it was a gag currency at $1 :D

It's still a gag currency, just that the traffickers and speculators are riding it.
 
Chief said:
I thought it was a gag currency at $1 :D

It's still a gag currency, just that the traffickers and speculators are riding it.
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Maybe eventually I will be able to gloat

dj1287a6g4n41.jpg
 
Chief said:
I thought it was a gag currency at $1 :D

It's still a gag currency, just that the traffickers and speculators are riding it.
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If a 5,000,000% ROI doesn't convince you, nothing will. Slow learner, eh? ;)

Bitcoin is still cheap at these prices. I'll give you a 5% discount if you want to buy from me when we hit $1,000,000 USD.
 
Simple Jack said:
Oh absolutely. Hold it at your peril.

But it essentially works the same way as any other fiat currency peg. As long as everyone believes that you can go to some authoritative place and exchange at 1:1 (+/- spread) the market will naturally coalesce around that price negating the need for the backing assets (at whatever rate they actually exist) to be dipped into.

Cryptocurrency even moreso, but it's quite sobering to reflect on how much of the global finance system is really a house of cards that only holds up as long as a collective belief is maintained.
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Belief doesn't matter when objective evidence is available. You can currently exchange USDT to USD for $1.00.

usdtusd.png
 
Evolved1 said:
If a 5,000,000% ROI doesn't convince you, nothing will. Slow learner, eh? ;)

Bitcoin is still cheap at these prices. I'll give you a 5% discount if you want to buy from me when we hit $1,000,000 USD.
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I mean... maybe. But I struggle to put money into something that doesn’t have any substantial utility or underlying value, and isn’t underwritten by anyone.

Crypto is one of those things I find interesting, but I don’t earn enough money to gamble with it
 
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