BOOO-ing Goodes

[Frodo of Past]

Lol what the hell are you talking about. What actions with the crowd?

Never mind that the AFLPA would have this ridiculous suggestion overturned within about 5 minutes.

Didn't you see the spear dance? Now if any player even gave the finger to the crowd he would be held accountable because we dont want to see it as part of the game.

And how is it racist? He's half British ffs.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Didn't you see the spear dance? Now if any player even gave the finger to the crowd he would be held accountable because we dont want to see it as part of the game.

And how is it racist? He's half British ffs.

Giving the finger is objectively offensive. Is the spear dance offensive? I wouldn't have thought so.

He identifies as Aboriginal, objectively looks Aboriginal and is a public campaigner for Aboriginal rights. I doubt Joe Public would have the slightest clue of his father's genetic makeup. You're being ridiculous frankly.

 

[nameless]

Giving the finger is objectively offensive. Is the spear dance offensive? I wouldn't have thought so.

He identifies as Aboriginal, objectively looks Aboriginal and is a public campaigner for Aboriginal rights. I doubt Joe Public would have the slightest clue of his father's genetic makeup. You're being ridiculous frankly.

Don't bother with him, he's a troll - he's putting the Jetta incident on par with Eric Cantona kicking a supporter in the head.

 

[JackOutback]

the real people spoke over the last 17 weeks , the people in the ivory towers ask why , Adams flogginess with the spear and a number of other things says promote your crusade in a better way , Moral of the story is "dont be a flog " . He will leave the game as a flog who doesnt know why he is a flog which is a shame because he was a great footballer

You tell him. You tell Adam Goodes how to fight for his cause.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

This isn't the SRP board. Treatises on the inter reaction between indigenous and western cultures are unnecessary.

The topic is booing, let's not stray too far from that.

 

[Frodo of Past]

Giving the finger is objectively offensive. Is the spear dance offensive? I wouldn't have thought so.

He identifies as Aboriginal, objectively looks Aboriginal and is a public campaigner for Aboriginal rights. I doubt Joe Public would have the slightest clue of his father's genetic makeup. You're being ridiculous frankly.

Forgetting the insult.

What does the finger represent objectively? Perhaps 'up yours', seen every day on the road.
What does the spear dance represent objectively? ' I want to spear you', definitely a threatening gesture

Do you really think he looks like an Aboriginal, more half caste to me. Does booing a Chinese person who identifies and campaigns for Aboriginals get the same classification as exists in your beliefs? I wouldn't think so.

Your position appears to be that anyone can threaten the crowd with any gesture in the name of their supported culture.

 

[EagleShore]

Something everyone seems to be missing - the main footage showed of booing was when Goodes kicked that goal. The crowd around me werent booing Adam - they were booing the umpire for not paying a free kick for the push. Which ramped up again when it was replayed. Shoddy journalism.

Edit: that's not a denial that Goodes was booed by some supporters. Just not in that example.

To me saying you can't boo a player because he is indigenous, but you can boo a white guy, is racist.

Disclaimer: I didn't boo Goodes throughout the game, found it distasteful, but not racist. I did however boo some umpiring decisions.

The continued booing of one player is distasteful. Even I think with Jab we should've probably booed the whole Essendon team for their complicity and denial. But yeah, with Goodes, it is just now so distasteful and it has become about race, whether or not it started that way.

 

[big bootaaaaah]

If a kid at school gets called a name and he runs to the teacher and makes a fuss he gets called more names and if he doesn't learn to ignore it he sets himself up for continuous harassment . Maybe Adam never learnt that lesson (completely understandably because of racial abuse sadly there was probably nothing much he could do to stop that) but now he's a grown up he needs to distinguish the difference between racial abuse (unacceptable and shouldn't be ignored) and general school yard teasing like booing that if ignored will eventually dissolve but if he makes a big fuss it may snowball to the point it overshadows his legacy. If he can separate the two instead of throwing everything in the racist basket it would go a long way towards ending racial abuse by not concluding the majority of the population are racist therefore making those that actually are racist feel they have a place.

Edit: when however someone reacts this way to booing their background should be taken into consideration by all as a lifetime of racial abuse isn't fair for any human being so perhaps booing on top is not very compassionate in this regard even though not racial.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Forgetting the insult.

What does the finger represent objectively? Perhaps 'up yours', seen every day on the road.
What does the spear dance represent objectively? ' I want to spear you', definitely a threatening gesture

Do you really think he looks like an Aboriginal, more half caste to me. Does booing a Chinese person who identifies and campaigns for Aboriginals get the same classification as exists in your beliefs? I wouldn't think so.

Your position appears to be that anyone can threaten the crowd with any gesture in the name of their supported culture.

Does booing a Chinese person ... what?

You're off your rocker. And you're done here.

 

[ZergMinion]

Miranda Devine
Andrew Bolt
Rita Panahi
Alan Jones

These are the people rushing to defend people that boo Adam Goodes. It's like a cavalcade of clickbait.

 

[tumtum]

If a kid at school gets called a name and he runs to the teacher and makes a fuss he gets called more names and if he doesn't learn to ignore it he sets himself up for continuous harassment . Maybe Adam never learnt that lesson (completely understandably because of racial abuse sadly there was probably nothing much he could do to stop that) but now he's a grown up he needs to distinguish the difference between racial abuse (unacceptable and shouldn't be ignored) and general school yard teasing like booing that if ignored will eventually dissolve but if he makes a big fuss it may snowball to the point it overshadows his legacy. If he can separate the two instead of throwing everything in the racist basket it would go a long way towards ending racial abuse by not concluding the majority of the population are racist therefore making those that actually are racist feel they have a place.

Goodes has not once spoke out about the booing in the last year and a bit. The only comment he has made on it was when he was asked by the media earlier this year what he thinks of the booing and he called it 'disappointing'. That's it. Nothing else. He has tried to ignore it for a long, long time despite the fact his coach has come out and said it was having a massive effect on him mentally. So please tell me how he has made a big deal out of it until now? How has he made a big fuss and caused it to snowball? How come it hasn't died out in nearly two years yet? Thats some pretty incessant schoolyard teasing!

 

[big bootaaaaah]

Forgetting the insult.

What does the finger represent objectively? Perhaps 'up yours', seen every day on the road.
What does the spear dance represent objectively? ' I want to spear you', definitely a threatening gesture

Do you really think he looks like an Aboriginal, more half caste to me. Does booing a Chinese person who identifies and campaigns for Aboriginals get the same classification as exists in your beliefs? I wouldn't think so.

Your position appears to be that anyone can threaten the crowd with any gesture in the name of their supported culture.

So was the crowd threatened when shooter mcgavin made a gun with his hand and pretended to fire it at the ball when he made a putt? I think the absence of an actual weapon makes a slight difference lol.
Non white races and some religious folk for a fact have to live with a monster not all of us do and that's a lifetime of racist remarks, because of this we should cut em some slack and feel sorry for their feeling the need to do silly war dances etc, yes the booing isn't racial but it is unfair to have it lumped atop their more than fair share of abuse they recieve in their life, so if we were in no way at all racial we'd be understanding to this fact and think twice about adding to their pain in any way and even go to the point of helping ease it.

 

[big bootaaaaah]

Goodes has not once spoke out about the booing in the last year and a bit. The only comment he has made on it was when he was asked by the media earlier this year what he thinks of the booing and he called it 'disappointing'. That's it. Nothing else. He has tried to ignore it for a long, long time despite the fact his coach has come out and said it was having a massive effect on him mentally. So please tell me how he has made a big deal out of it until now? How has he made a big fuss and caused it to snowball? How come it hasn't died out in nearly two years yet? Thats some pretty incessant schoolyard teasing!

Well maybe the war dance stirred it up a tad, and the fact the media is all over it and he's considering retiring over it, isn't going to help people remember him for his footy if he does retire now.

 

[Belltower]

Giving the finger is objectively offensive. Is the spear dance offensive? I wouldn't have thought so.

He identifies as Aboriginal, objectively looks Aboriginal and is a public campaigner for Aboriginal rights. I doubt Joe Public would have the slightest clue of his father's genetic makeup. You're being ridiculous frankly.

The last part is offensive, he gives the fist up, which is actually an up yours symbol like the finger.

 

[Georgeorwelled]

The continued booing of one player is distasteful. Even I think with Jab we should've probably booed the whole Essendon team for their complicity and denial. But yeah, with Goodes, it is just now so distasteful and it has become about race, whether or not it started that way.

The continued booing of one player is distasteful. Even I think with Jab we should've probably booed the whole Essendon team for their complicity and denial. But yeah, with Goodes, it is just now so distasteful and it has become about race, whether or not it started that way.

It was his continued staging and diving
Shane Warnes tweet last year-
"Come on tigers beat those Swans and make the finals. By the way, does everyone get annoyed when Adam Goodes always 'stages' for free kicks?"
Adam Goodes has made it about race to protect himself from criticism

 

[big bootaaaaah]

It was his continued staging and diving
Shane Warnes tweet last year-
"Come on tigers beat those Swans and make the finals. By the way, does everyone get annoyed when Adam Goodes always 'stages' for free kicks?"
Adam Goodes has made it about race to protect himself from criticism

Umm Joel Selwood invented he most annoying free kick stage in the history of the game and he doesn't get booed constantly.

 

[liam123]

I first would like to say I have aboriginal friends who I trust respect etc just like all my other friends. There is no difference we are all the same. They however do not carry on like pork chops every time something happens in life claiming that everybody is racist to them they just act normal and in the. They get respect.

Some of these afl players need a concrete pill. How about thumbs up to the crowd put a smile on your face for once and just play some football. If you really don't like it grit your teeth and play hard hold your head high and be normal. Not everything people do is racist don't assume that it's pathetic. If he lived life like a man and just laughed at people he would get respect.

This so called pride spear throwing crap is retaliation basically Jetta fighting back. Have a think mate all your doing is creating a devide. Us blackies will spear you whities back for being racist is what that said. In the meantime we all know it wasn't racist it's just that we can't stand that little girl who feels sorry for himself. Which other indig player gets booed? None because none of them are flogs like goodesy. Has nothing to do with his race or skin colour it's his stupid self pitying attitude and the way he is dealing with it now just shows what a flog he is.... I personally wouldn't boo him but I think he deserves it.

The more these flogs go on about it the more a devide is created because they are shedding light on their differences. Be normal and unite and you should never need to play the racist card for Pitty

 

[tumtum]

Well maybe the war dance stirred it up a tad, and the fact the media is all over it and he's considering retiring over it, isn't going to help people remember him for his footy if he does retire now.

True, although to my knowledge the booing has been pretty consistent before and after the dance though no doubt some people felt 'threatened' by an imaginary spear (it sounds silly just typing it). I personally think there is no option but to make a stand now, he will probably retire in two months and it would be very naive to think that if nothing is done now he won't be booed into retirement anyway. At least now theres a chance some people might change their mind.

 

[Georgeorwelled]

Umm Joel Selwood invented he most annoying free kick stage in the history of the game and he doesn't get booed constantly.

Yes, annoying
But, personally I couldn't boo someone who goes in as hard as Joel Selwood does

 

[big bootaaaaah]

Goodeneas me what a storm in a tea cup over booing..
Everybody is racist to some extent ffs. If anyone comes in here and says they have no racism in their heart at all they are either dead or lying. Simple.

No way mate I'm not one bit racist! We are all lamborghinis with different paint jobs as far as I'm concerned. I find some culture differences can be annoying such as driving habits but I accept we are all annoying to each other in different ways. I never think of my race(white australian) as better human beings than anyone else and I'm sure I'm not alone. I hate racism with a passion I will not be assumed even one bit a racist by anyone.

 

[tumtum]

The last part is offensive, he gives the fist up, which is actually an up yours symbol like the finger.

Can you blame him? Who's to say he didn't hear some of the racist stuff being said over the fence to Adam Goodes? About how he is an ape or that he should go back to the zoo? I would say an aboriginal dance and an up yours is the least inflammatory way he could handle that situation.

 

[ziad]

The continued booing of one player is distasteful. Even I think with Jab we should've probably booed the whole Essendon team for their complicity and denial. But yeah, with Goodes, it is just now so distasteful and it has become about race, whether or not it started that way.

Jab admitted PED use on TV that week.

 

[Belltower]

Can you blame him? Who's to say he didn't hear some of the racist stuff being said over the fence to Adam Goodes? About how he is an ape or that he should go back to the zoo? I would say an aboriginal dance and an up yours is the least inflammatory way he could handle that situation.

So how is it any different than what murphy did to the collingwood supporters. He should be fined, but he hasn't been because that would be racist. That is not a traditional dance at all.

Were you at the game tuntum, I doubt it. I was, I heard not one racist comment. The booing was louder against razor ray and the loudest booing was against goodes when he pushed schofield and kicked a goal

 

[RookiePick]

Usually I would consider entering into a sad debate on a forum as inconceivable. I am a fairly shy, passive person in general. However there is something about this thread and the broader issue that I find utterly awful, with the lack of basic human kindness shown towards this man an absolute disgrace. Therefore I have been taking time out of my day to come back to this thread (which then leaves me with a knot in my guts after reading the casual racism on display) to try understand the rationality behind the hounding of Goodes and maybe (although unlikely) add to a chorus of disapproval which may at least help temper some of the inexplicable hatred some have for this man.

I wasn't going to respond to your post however decided I couldn't let it stand as you misuse some big words so may give the impression to some that you have expertly picked apart my argument. However in the great straw man tradition of this thread, you have muddied my original point, which cannot go unremarked upon.

So now let me address this car crash of a post point by point. It reads like something written in a foreign language which was entered into Google Translate, so I have had to re-read it several times to try to work out what you are talking about.

1. Next time please look up the meaning of the word "conflate" before you use it in a sentence (For your reference, here is the definition - combine (two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, etc.) into one). However you are correct at least in this sense - if I was insane enough to conflate the confederate flag issue with people booing a football player, particularly if I were to draw parallels between the relative seriousness of each, I would indeed be rather insane.

2. Rather than conflate, I drew an analogy (or even, a "parallel" would be possibly more accurate). You have listed a handful of details associated with the confederate flag controversy and quite rightly pointed out that none of these details have anything to do with booing a football player. There is one detail and one detail only where I thought there was a potentially instructive parallel. Let me write it out so as to straw man proof my point -

a) Despite many people in North Carolina quite rightly pointing out that they didn't perceive the flag as racist, they acknowledged that for black people, it was perceived as a symbol of racism, so politicians and lawmakers agreed to stop flying it.

b) Despite many footy fans quite rightly pointing out that they are booing Goodes because he is a "flog", with the vast majority of these fans not overtly or consciously racist, I thought we could use what happened in North Carolina as a correlate. Perhaps those booing can make the same realisation, that this booing will naturally be perceived as racist because of the surrounding context, whether the boos are racially motivated or not. Therefore, because this booing (like the confederate flag) is a likely source of emotional suffering for Goodes and other aboriginal people, the decent and humane thing would be not to boo Goodes on such a systematic level.

Now back to your "argument".

3. When you look up "conflate", also look up "back pedaling" and then point out any statement I have made which is in accord with your new-found understanding of the meaning of this expression.

4. I have tried re-reading your message to make sense of your use of Godwin's Law and Hanlon's Razor. Whilst I definitely think Hanlon's Razor is behind your post, I can't for the life of me find where I referenced Hitler or Nazis...

5. Your last line was my second favourite. In the swirling maelstrom of ad hominem that is this Adam Goodes debate, you have taken particular umbrage at my own (admittedly unflatteringly facetious) piece of ad hominem. Extra irony points considering the position of myself and others is that the particularly nasty, personal and emotionally taxing ad hominem that Adam Goodes is being subjected to is a disgrace. Contrasted again what people like yourself believe they should be able to do to Goodes, I think a facetious post with a joking reference to intelligence (or lack thereof) would be water off a duck's back right?

However I wish to award the inaugural "Big Footy Adam Goodes Debate Straw Man Award" to you for this humdinger of a line -

I have no idea why people who boo players at the footy take umbrage to being accused of holding the same values as above murderer by smug talking heads

For any impartial observer reading this, I wish to direct you back to my original post he is quoting. Note how my original point, which was -

Even though the vast majority of the booers are not racist, for many it appears racist (due to context). Just like most NC citizens are neither racist nor view the confederate flag as racist, black people do, and find it upsetting.

In a dazzling, straw man sleight of hand move, this above point has been changed to -

I am saying that people who boo Adam Goodes hold the same values as the Charleston church shooter who killed 9 people in cold blood

I wish I had the ability to do a slow-mo reply as it was seamless and only reveals its mastery on repeat viewing.

Hope that clarifies things somewhat.

U mad Bro?

Why did you draw your parallel with something that is inextricably and inarguably linked to the worst expressions of racism? Shock value perhaps? To continue the ongoing narrative by anti-racists that you must be the worst type of person if you disagree with their methods of dealing with the problem? We are to believe you just chose an example with supercharged racial implications incidentally...colour me sceptical.

The premise of your analogy is flawed - under no circumstance does the confederate flag not become the flag that was used by Confederate forces as they fought to oppose emancipation. It is a powerful symbol of oppression and racism in any context, even if those using it were not racist themselves or had forgotten the baggage that symbol carries with it. Consider when Prince Harry wore a Nazi uniform to a fancy dress party as context. When a racist boos a black person for being black it is a racist action. When someone boos an umpire, a white player or a black player for a non racist reason the boo is not racist or symbolic of racism. There is no inherent symbolism of racism in a boo - that is entirely engendered by the motive of the person opening their mouth.

From your beloved wiki:

Conflation occurs when the identities of two or more individuals, concepts, or places, sharing some characteristics of one another, seem to be a single identity — the differences appear to become lost.[1] In logic, it is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one, which produces errors or misunderstandings as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.

You were happy when the error or misunderstanding of your conflation presented as a strength in your argument "Agree with me on the booing or you support this clearly racist confederate flag position". You seem decidedly less happy now the obscured nature of the relationship you forged has been pointed out. Your analogy was a lazy fusion of an untenable racist positon to your booing argument to oppress dissent with your conclusions.

A much better analogy would be the banning/requesting that parents/family do not take photos at school events like sports carnivals and especially swimming events/activities due to the possibilty of pedophiles "taking cover" in the activity. In this manner people who have absolutely no intention of wrongdoing are limited in their enjoyment of their own activity. If they forget the rules or, heaven forbid, disregard them they will be happily painted as a pedophile by people who feel happiest when thinking the worst of others.

This type of brow beating approach is what I have a problem with. "Do as I say or you are a racist/pedophile/evil person sympathiser (at best)" is an argument that anyone who values their personal freedoms will resist to their utmost. I am arguing for the right to boo Adam and any other black/yellow/white/pink/whatever colour person and not be branded a racist with no refererence to the context in which my action took place. Racism is repugnant to me but weak arguments that apply band aid solutions to symptoms through fear and shame are lazy and divisive. Alternative solutions are there for taking but they might take longer than a 10 second sound byte to implement which tends not to suit our twitter/FB social crusaders.

I have been belted for interceding in racial vilification, mocked by a teacher in front of the class on the basis of where I come from and had various negative experiences of assault and abuse as a result of racism - all of which I consider to be very low level racist experiences compared to the systemic discrimination many others face. I strongly oppose people being given carte blanche to enact stupid policies on my behalf and I suspect many others who are discriminated against in much more thorough fashion would oppose further abolition of their rights to make the PC crowd feel good about themselves.

"Everyone be quiet so we can pretend there are no racists" policy works beautifully for the AFL maintaining it's image but anyone who thinks it will make a difference to racism experienced in the real world is deluded. Not one person has said that racism is not a problem that needs to be addressed and improved. Some have just dared to disagree with a poorly thought out solution.

 

[Belltower]

True, although to my knowledge the booing has been pretty consistent before and after the dance though no doubt some people felt 'threatened' by an imaginary spear (it sounds silly just typing it). I personally think there is no option but to make a stand now, he will probably retire in two months and it would be very naive to think that if nothing is done now he won't be booed into retirement anyway. At least now theres a chance some people might change their mind.

If he retires now shows he thinks what we think, that he is bigger than the game, one of the reasons I don't like him. I did not boo him but I did boo razor ray, does that make me anti short white guys

Why do we have to be threatened to find it offensive, people are saying that goodes is offended by the booing, thinking it is racist and that is why it should stop. How is that any different, what Jetta did was blatantly racist, an aboriginal taunt to the crowd, how can it be painted any other way. Many people would have been offended by it