News Clarkson to step away from football indefinitely

‘Heavy toll’: Roos blindsided by Clarkson decision to step away

North Melbourne are unsure how long Alastair Clarkson will need away from the game, but the club’s football boss Todd Viney, a friend of the master coach, is confident he will not be lost to the sport.

www.theage.com.au

 

[HairyO]

There’s a case to be made that the accused should have continued to have been stood down on full pay until the investigation was over.

Who pays the $1.5m or more ?

 

[Rich01]

Who pays the $1.5m or more ?

His employer.
BTW $1.5m+ for Clarkson is absurd money. If he’s on that, the senior leaders at the club who gave him that contract just shot themselves in the foot. No room for decent support staff.

 

[MagpieJo]

Allegedly?

Okay then...

It’s an anonymous footy forum, could be anybody

 

[HairyO]

His employer.
BTW $1.5m+ for Clarkson is absurd money. If he’s on that, the senior leaders at the club who gave him that contract just shot themselves in the foot. No room for decent support staff.

So Brisbane and North Melbourne go without their coaches and pay their salaries and need to pay additional money to whoever the replacement coaches are because of 8 or 10 or 12 year old claims which have not been made to any official body or regulatory body or anywhere else other than a football club neither of them are employed by?

So a claim is made on Twitter about Hardwick and something he did when playing for Essendon and youre okay with him being stood down potentially for years if the Twitter poster decides they dont want to participate in any investigation ?

There are 2 coaches BTW. Im sure the sum of their salaries is $1.5m or more.

Either you didnt think it through or youre full of it.

 

[ferball]

It’s an anonymous footy forum, could be anybody

A friend of mine was a member of the stolen generation.

WEnt home thought it would help heal his problems, found out you can never go home and killed himself. s**t happens hey.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Feel very sorry for the bloke, run through the ringer in the media and no chance to respond.

He's had 6 months to respond but he no respond.

 

[Rich01]

So Brisbane and North Melbourne go without their coaches and pay their salaries and need to pay additional money to whoever the replacement coaches are because of 8 or 10 or 12 year old claims which have not been made to any official body or regulatory body or anywhere else other than a football club neither of them are employed by?

So a claim is made on Twitter about Hardwick and something he did when playing for Essendon and youre okay with him being stood down potentially for years if the Twitter poster decides they dont want to participate in any investigation ?

Either you didnt think it through or youre full of it.

To respond to paragraph one, yes I think it may have put pressure to speed up the investigation and also alleviate the immense pressure that Clarkson had felt if he was stood down. Yes, the club should go without their coaches while the investigation is going on. The claims are serious and if true, are more important than one bloke coaching a game.

To respond to paragraph two, if the claim is reputable (which isnt in this case because you are using the example of an ambiguous claim on a communication platform that is inconsistent with truth) then by all means yes he should be stood down and investigated thoroughly.

To respond to paragraph three, this shows your obvious bias in the matter.

 

[HairyO]

To respond to paragraph one, yes I think it may have put pressure to speed up the investigation and also alleviate the immense pressure that Clarkson had felt if he was stood down. Yes, the club should go without their coaches while the investigation is going on. The claims are serious and if true, are more important than one bloke coaching a game.

To respond to paragraph two, if the claim is reputable (which isnt in this case because you are using the example of an ambiguous claim on a communication platform that is inconsistent with truth) then by all means yes he should be stood down and investigated thoroughly.

To respond to paragraph three, this shows your obvious bias in the matter.

There is zero reputation behind any of the claims made against the coaches.

Anonymous people who have refused to participate and refused to let their records be made available.

 

[Rich01]

There is zero reputation behind any of the claims made against the coaches.

Anonymous people who have refused to participate and refused to let their records be made available.

Sure sure.
Club believes there may be a problem.
Club investigates problem.
Club reveals that the investigation reports there is a problem.

But there is no problem.

 

[HairyO]

Sure sure.
Club believes there may be a problem.
Club investigates problem.
Club reveals that the investigation reports there is a problem.

But there is no problem.

Noone from the club has said anything about the veracit of the claims being truthful. Nor the coaches. Nor the AFL. Nor the panel which apparently is going to be ahut down soon, with no finding against the coaches of any kind.

Unless you care to prove otherwise ?

 

[Rich01]

Noone from the club has said anything about the veracit of the claims being truthful. Nor the coaches. Nor the AFL. Nor the panel which apparently is going to be ahut down soon, with no finding against the coaches of any kind.

Unless you care to prove otherwise ?

I don’t need to prove anything. I have no skin in the game either way.

I’d just like to see these quite serious claims investigated, with the alleged victims being in a position to feel comfortable to give evidence and the accused to give their account.

Isn’t that what we all want?

 

[Chief]

So a claim is made on Twitter about Hardwick and something he did when playing for Essendon and youre okay with him being stood down potentially for years if the Twitter poster decides they dont want to participate in any investigation ?

Twitter?

How is that even in the same ball park?

 

[HairyO]

Twitter?

How is that even in the same ball park?

At the moment how is it different to sitting around having a chat?

There has been zero evidence tendered and the accusers are refusing in any way to participate and are actively blocking any documents they can from being shared.

 

[Devington]

No respect for their senior coach because he told them a few home truths? campaigners are sitting in the bottom of the ladder yet they don’t respect their coach? What a bunch of self entitled little pricks. Hope all the Norf players got participation ribbons at the B and F night. Can’t be hurting anyone’s feelings

True in part, but it's not quite that simple. Supposedly it had gotten personal with a lot of players (and staff) due to his "tyrannical" nature and we had a fractured playing group as a result. Not the first club that's happened to. There's a reason that in pre-season onwards Clarko kept emphasizing that he would have to carefully pick and choose between using a cuddle and the size nine steel toed boots.

Not denying we have players that are delusional about their quality etc either, but the situation in general was pretty severe. Paul Roos had left and without him the new gameplan was an absolute abomination that never had a chance to work (and even though it was defensively focused it performed worse than the current one). Noble was blaming everyone and everything, we were bottom of the ladder, and there was * all hope on the horizon even after years of turmoil at the club. The place was spiritless.

 

[Blue1980]

I agree - guilty until proven innocent, no accountability of the accusers, an arbitrarily applied legal system and trial by media come from the playbook used by the cultural revolution and Khmer Rouge. I live in China, so I’ve experienced the ‘benefits’ of this system first-hand. it might seem trivial now, but please never let this thought process take hold in Australia….

I didn't realise Clarko has been executed.

 

[domin8]

True in part, but it's not quite that simple. Supposedly it had gotten personal with a lot of players (and staff) due to his "tyrannical" nature and we had a fractured playing group as a result. Not the first club that's happened to. There's a reason that in pre-season onwards Clarko kept emphasizing that he would have to carefully pick and choose between using a cuddle and the size nine steel toed boots.

Not denying we have players that are delusional about their quality etc either, but the situation in general was pretty severe. Paul Roos had left and without him the new gameplan was an absolute abomination that never had a chance to work (and even though it was defensively focused it performed worse than the current one). Noble was blaming everyone and everything, we were bottom of the ladder, and there was * all hope on the horizon even after years of turmoil at the club. The place was spiritless.

I know what Noble is like I’ve been coached by him and have been on the receiving end of a Noble bake. Mind you this was late 90s. Obviously times have changed society is way too precious

 

[MagpieJo]

A friend of mine was a member of the stolen generation.

WEnt home thought it would help heal his problems, found out you can never go home and killed himself. s**t happens hey.

I don’t look at any suicide as s**t happens
sorry for your loss

 

[edie]

Regarding the ‘18 conditions for mediation’ misinformation:

Bernard Quinn (the KC who is leading the independent investigation) said last week that media reporting of 18 demands that had been made by the ex-players and their partners was inaccurate. “Participants were invited to articulate their objectives of any mediation process but, contrary to media reporting, no specific conditions have been placed by the panel on those choosing to participate.”

Revealed: How Hawks investigation stalled over key documents

An impasse over releasing private information about ex-Hawthorn players to former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt has delayed the AFL panel’s investigation into mistreatment claims.

theage.com.au

‘Another Herald Sun article published suggested that 18 “demands” had been imposed on Fagan, Clarkson, and administrator Jason Burt as a condition of a potential mediation.

Fagan said no such “demands” have ever been communicated to him or to his lawyers.’

Fagan lashes out at reporting of the Hawthorn investigation, Clarkson also weighs in

Brisbane coach Chris Fagan and North Melbourne counterpart Alastair Clarkson have both aired their frustration about the ongoing Hawthorn investigation commissioned by the AFL.

theage.com.au

 

[Dazb86]

Is it time for the AFL to fly in Paul Roos.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Hawks trio likely to be exonerated as AFL moves to end much-criticised inquiry

Two well-placed sources, with knowledge of the investigation, have confirmed the AFL is moving to wind down the probe into alleged racism.

www.theage.com.au

If that’s the case, I hope Clarkson, Fagan and Burt take legal action against some of the parties responsible for this fiasco, and take them to the cleaners.

 

[edie]

I kept reading headlines about this using the words ‘Exonerated’ and ‘exoneration’ and finally I was like, ok I am going to look up the offical dictionary definition of the word because like, in my mind I thought I understood ‘exonerated’ as like even a step further than somebody being found ‘not guilty’. Like in law drama TV shows I feel like a lawyer will be saying ‘this evidence will EXONERATE my client!’ and then will provide something that doesn’t just provide ~reasonable doubt~ but it will be something that actually proves innocence….. and obviously that does not seem to fit with any finding that could be coming out from this investigation.

So just in case anybody else is in the same boat, here is the actual definition:

exoneration
noun
1: the act of disburdening or disburdening or discharging (as from a charge, liability, obligation, duty, or responsibility)

and I feel like that makes more sense as in they are being discharged or in a criminal sense ‘charges have been dropped’ (due to being unable to proceed further in the investigation), and not that they are claiming anybody has been ‘proven innocent’.

 

[DesertRoo]

Drug saga proves you need evidence that you’re not guilty not evidence that you’re guilty so waiting on clarko to prove he’s innocent

Yes that’s correct wada follows the French legal system, where you have to prove your innocence.

 

[big_e]

Is it time for the AFL to fly in Paul Roos.

He's the reason we got David Noble, so can we not bring in Roos again please?

 

[Chat Pile]

Like richmond rattling tins after the “tiger army” went AWOL ?

Yeah but that wasn't as glorious as losing a final to a team that finished ninth in my opinion. Both have great comedy value though.

 

[Laphroaig]

Yes that’s correct wada follows the French legal system, where you have to prove your innocence.

Umm, no.

The French legal system is centred on the presumption of innocence, which is also enshrined in the Constitution.

The differences between the French and English systems are complex, but a handy summary to start with is that the English system is heavily adversorial. The two sides hammer away at each other and the judge is like a referee enforcing the rules of the game. The French system is primarily inquisitorial. THe role of the court is to pursue a search for the truth, not merely to ensure the opposing lawyers don't bite or eye gouge on their way to a win.

It could be argued that an inquisitorial system is far MORE supportive of the presumption of innocence than an adversorial one.