Opinion Creating a Culture of Success at Hawthorn

[seysearles]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic, and if you think I am wrong then by all means offer up your opinion, but it seems to me we are a team without a burning hunger to win.

I look at Collingwood and I see the intensity with which they play. They’re all hyper alert and all dialled in to the same goal. Winning. You can sense an electricity in the group and it really sets the tone for their performances.

I think back also to our golden era and the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead and Mitchell himself who appeared to be in a constant state of high intensity, strongly setting the tone for the group. Players were all held accountable and whilst behind-the-scenes I’m sure there was some lightheartedness, what we saw on the field was not about fun or enjoyment. It was about collectively working together to win. It was an extremely serious matter and that was understood amongst the entire group.

I feel like that sort of culture is so valuable and really missing from our current list. It’s also something you can’t fake. You need to have it burning inside you. It’s a personality type. It seems therefore to me you need to explicitly recruit guys with that sort of temperament. Hyper competitive guys that hate, detest and will not stand for losing. When they come off the field after a loss, it sits in the stomach all week and motivates them to perform.

For me Luke Hodge embodied that, and I think the proof is in the pudding given that he captained us to a threepeat. As much as I hate acknowledging it, Joel Selwood was the same formula with Geelong. Insert Michael Voss for Brisbane. The only guy on our list that I see with a bit of that burning desire to win is Mitch Lewis. Beyond that I see a team of guys out there, just having fun and having a laugh.

This is what Luke Hodge looked like when he played football. When you turned around that’s what you saw every minute of the game. You knew you were doing something ******* serious, not having fun with your mates.





I know we are in the era of “cuddle culture” and everything’s about making the players happy but I just don’t think you’re ever going to win flags with a kumbaya mantra. If I was a recruiter I would have leadership and competitiveness right alongside football ability in my selection criteria.

Am I being too simplistic?

 

[H00t]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic, and if you think I am wrong then by all means offer up your opinion, but it seems to me we are a team without a burning hunger to win.

I look at Collingwood and I see the intensity with which they play. They’re all hyper alert and all dialled in to the same goal. Winning. You can sense an electricity in the group and it really sets the tone for their performances.

I think back also to our golden era and the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead and Mitchell himself who appeared to be in a constant state of high intensity, strongly setting the tone for the group. Players were all held accountable and whilst behind-the-scenes I’m sure there was some lightheartedness, what we saw on the field was not about fun or enjoyment. It was about collectively working together to win. It was an extremely serious matter and that was understood amongst the entire group.

I feel like that sort of culture is so valuable and really missing from our current list. It’s also something you can’t fake. You need to have it burning inside you. It’s a personality type. It seems therefore to me you need to explicitly recruit guys with that sort of temperament. Hyper competitive guys that hate, detest and will not stand for losing. When they come off the field after a loss, it sits in the stomach all week and motivates them to perform.

For me Luke Hodge embodied that, and I think the proof is in the pudding given that he captained us to a threepeat. As much as I hate acknowledging it, Joel Selwood was the same formula with Geelong. Insert Michael Voss for Brisbane. The only guy on our list that I see with a bit of that burning desire to win is Mitch Lewis. Beyond that I see a team of guys out there, just having fun and having a laugh.

This is what Luke Hodge looked like when he played football. When you turned around that’s what you saw every minute of the game. You knew you were doing something ******* serious, not having fun with your mates.

View attachment 1682073
View attachment 1682074
View attachment 1682075

I know we are in the era of “cuddle culture” and everything’s about making the players happy but I just don’t think you’re ever going to win flags with a kumbaya mantra. If I was a recruiter I would have leadership and competitiveness right alongside football ability in my selection criteria.

Am I being too simplistic?

The players are trying. It’s not working for them. But I can’t say they aren’t trying.

They just aren’t good enough yet and a bit up and down that comes with fielding such a young team. But for the most part they are trying just not quite getting the chocolates.

The belief follows the wins, and the wins follow the hard work. As long as the players keep putting in the wheel will start to turn our way.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Are you being too simplistic? Yes, far too simplistic.

You’re also expecting the youngest list in the comp to be able to execute at the same level as the 5th oldest.

The golden era you mention, those players were all over 25yrs old.

 

[seysearles]

Maybe you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not expecting wins or even overly competitive performances in the present.

The core of my question is whether we are bringing guys onto our list that have the fire in their bellies. Guys that will lead and set the tone and will us over the finish line.

From 2002-2006 we hardly won a game but we had young guys on the list that embodied those traits. Hodge was screaming and directing traffic in his first season. He was even criticised for it in the media. The other guys I mentioned I don’t remember too well if it was apparent at the time but clearly it was there smouldering. I am convinced that it’s the magic ingredient to sustained success and all I want is to see it germinating on this list.

Can anyone highlight players on our list at present that even remotely fit this bill?

Ill give you Hardwick and at a push Sicily and as mentioned I see some good things with Mitch Lewis.

Newcombe and Worpel im hoping have something in there which isn’t apparent yet because they’re the sort of players you need showing those traits.

Beyond that it gets very thin.

 

[Flukey!]

Collingwood have a better spread of age and experience than we do. Pendles is still going for starters.
I think they have the 4th oldest list???
How do they compare to our '13 and '14 lists? I expect they would be similar in profile.

There are signs that sometimes our players do not go hard enough for long enough.
Chad doesn't always play at the required intensity and we don't have a Hodge to call him out.
Perhaps others speak up but I haven't seen it if it does happen.

Losing is hard and we are short on leadership, skills and experience right now.
None of it is fixed overnight but will improve with time.

 

[HedgeFund]

That single mindedness to get the most out of oneself develops over time. It ties in with the above observations that a mature list is more likely to be laser focused.

The closer you are to the end, the more desperate you are for success.

Give it a couple of seasons and we will be less jovial and more a bunch of campaigners

 

[lyger]

I think one thing the Hawks have been focused on is bringing in people who are self-driven and will set and drive high standards. You can see it in all our recent recruits. I think we will get there but with our list profile will take time.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic, and if you think I am wrong then by all means offer up your opinion, but it seems to me we are a team without a burning hunger to win.

I look at Collingwood and I see the intensity with which they play. They’re all hyper alert and all dialled in to the same goal. Winning. You can sense an electricity in the group and it really sets the tone for their performances.

I think back also to our golden era and the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead and Mitchell himself who appeared to be in a constant state of high intensity, strongly setting the tone for the group. Players were all held accountable and whilst behind-the-scenes I’m sure there was some lightheartedness, what we saw on the field was not about fun or enjoyment. It was about collectively working together to win. It was an extremely serious matter and that was understood amongst the entire group.

I feel like that sort of culture is so valuable and really missing from our current list. It’s also something you can’t fake. You need to have it burning inside you. It’s a personality type. It seems therefore to me you need to explicitly recruit guys with that sort of temperament. Hyper competitive guys that hate, detest and will not stand for losing. When they come off the field after a loss, it sits in the stomach all week and motivates them to perform.

For me Luke Hodge embodied that, and I think the proof is in the pudding given that he captained us to a threepeat. As much as I hate acknowledging it, Joel Selwood was the same formula with Geelong. Insert Michael Voss for Brisbane. The only guy on our list that I see with a bit of that burning desire to win is Mitch Lewis. Beyond that I see a team of guys out there, just having fun and having a laugh.

This is what Luke Hodge looked like when he played football. When you turned around that’s what you saw every minute of the game. You knew you were doing something ******* serious, not having fun with your mates.

View attachment 1682073
View attachment 1682074
View attachment 1682075

I know we are in the era of “cuddle culture” and everything’s about making the players happy but I just don’t think you’re ever going to win flags with a kumbaya mantra. If I was a recruiter I would have leadership and competitiveness right alongside football ability in my selection criteria.

Am I being too simplistic?

Let us get the talent in and develop the players we have - once we’ve built the list and Mitchell has found his best 22 - the group will grow in confidence and that ruthlessness will come back- its in the culture of our club- it just needs to be ignited!

 

[Off The Couch]

I can’t think of a single new recruit that doesn’t have the drive you speak of - who do you think lacks drive

 

[Yardie]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic, and if you think I am wrong then by all means offer up your opinion, but it seems to me we are a team without a burning hunger to win.

I look at Collingwood and I see the intensity with which they play. They’re all hyper alert and all dialled in to the same goal. Winning. You can sense an electricity in the group and it really sets the tone for their performances.

I think back also to our golden era and the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead and Mitchell himself who appeared to be in a constant state of high intensity, strongly setting the tone for the group. Players were all held accountable and whilst behind-the-scenes I’m sure there was some lightheartedness, what we saw on the field was not about fun or enjoyment. It was about collectively working together to win. It was an extremely serious matter and that was understood amongst the entire group.

I feel like that sort of culture is so valuable and really missing from our current list. It’s also something you can’t fake. You need to have it burning inside you. It’s a personality type. It seems therefore to me you need to explicitly recruit guys with that sort of temperament. Hyper competitive guys that hate, detest and will not stand for losing. When they come off the field after a loss, it sits in the stomach all week and motivates them to perform.

For me Luke Hodge embodied that, and I think the proof is in the pudding given that he captained us to a threepeat. As much as I hate acknowledging it, Joel Selwood was the same formula with Geelong. Insert Michael Voss for Brisbane. The only guy on our list that I see with a bit of that burning desire to win is Mitch Lewis. Beyond that I see a team of guys out there, just having fun and having a laugh.

This is what Luke Hodge looked like when he played football. When you turned around that’s what you saw every minute of the game. You knew you were doing something ******* serious, not having fun with your mates.

View attachment 1682073
View attachment 1682074
View attachment 1682075

I know we are in the era of “cuddle culture” and everything’s about making the players happy but I just don’t think you’re ever going to win flags with a kumbaya mantra. If I was a recruiter I would have leadership and competitiveness right alongside football ability in my selection criteria.

Am I being too simplistic?

Is this the same Luke Hodge who didn't take it seriously at the start of his career and also didn't get the captaincy until he grew up?

 

[theiaofseed]

Maybe you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not expecting wins or even overly competitive performances in the present.

The core of my question is whether we are bringing guys onto our list that have the fire in their bellies. Guys that will lead and set the tone and will us over the finish line.

From 2002-2006 we hardly won a game but we had young guys on the list that embodied those traits. Hodge was screaming and directing traffic in his first season. He was even criticised for it in the media. The other guys I mentioned I don’t remember too well if it was apparent at the time but clearly it was there smouldering. I am convinced that it’s the magic ingredient to sustained success and all I want is to see it germinating on this list.

Can anyone highlight players on our list at present that even remotely fit this bill?

Ill give you Hardwick and at a push Sicily and as mentioned I see some good things with Mitch Lewis.

Newcombe and Worpel im hoping have something in there which isn’t apparent yet because they’re the sort of players you need showing those traits.

Beyond that it gets very thin.

Luke Hodge was lucky to be playing constant football in his first 3 season, was well on track to be failed first round draft pick, an overweight and undiscipline player that spent the weekend drinking. Suggesting he was some sort of pinicale of leadership is some major head canon fiction.

 

[Brishawk]

Maybe you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not expecting wins or even overly competitive performances in the present.

The core of my question is whether we are bringing guys onto our list that have the fire in their bellies. Guys that will lead and set the tone and will us over the finish line.

From 2002-2006 we hardly won a game but we had young guys on the list that embodied those traits. Hodge was screaming and directing traffic in his first season. He was even criticised for it in the media. The other guys I mentioned I don’t remember too well if it was apparent at the time but clearly it was there smouldering. I am convinced that it’s the magic ingredient to sustained success and all I want is to see it germinating on this list.

Can anyone highlight players on our list at present that even remotely fit this bill?

Ill give you Hardwick and at a push Sicily and as mentioned I see some good things with Mitch Lewis.

Newcombe and Worpel im hoping have something in there which isn’t apparent yet because they’re the sort of players you need showing those traits.

Beyond that it gets very thin.

Roughy copped criticism right up until about 2013, when he won the Coleman. The whole squad copped it in 2009-2012 for not been hard enough to win under pressure. Think of all those losses to Geelong and how much our own fans raged at the players during that period. It’s easy in hindsight to say they were all warriors but few were saying that in the years we lost.

Edit: and who could forget the where is Luke hodge at thread???

Luke Hodge - Where's he at? He's at the Ricoh Centre, having a coffee!

The experts in this forum where do you think Luke Hodge is at? Looking at the stats last night: Lewis and Burgoyne were the stand outs for us: Hodgey didn't fare too well with 20 possies..66 DT points ( 1 tackle), and saw he shanked a few possies... Luke Hodge11920323110066 Whereas Boak...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[seysearles]

Luke Hodge was lucky to be playing constant football in his first 3 season, was well on track to be failed first round draft pick, an overweight and undiscipline player that spent the weekend drinking. Suggesting he was some sort of pinicale of leadership is some major head canon fiction.

Is this the same Luke Hodge who didn't take it seriously at the start of his career and also didn't get the captaincy until he grew up?

How about reading through some of these articles and rethinking your version of events.

Hodge like Archer in spirit: Clarkson

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawks look to next generation for show of leadership

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawthorn's young talent shows plenty of promise

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Luke Hodge :: Articles

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Yes Hodge was overweight and rough around the edges when he arrived at the club and he burdened a heavy load with the number 1 pick and the fact that Judd had such an amazing start to his career, but he always had immense leadership qualities and the will to win. i remember seeing an interview with recruiter Kevin Sheehan talking about how he advised the clubs whoever made the mistake of not selecting Hodge in the draft would regret it until the end of his days. So whilst he was rough around the edges it was always clear to all but the most cynical supporter that he was a special player and a competitive beast. Why else would he have ben elevated to the leadership group in his 3rd season at the age of 20?

 

[Jazzfan]

Will Day.

Start watching him mate.

Even Bucks said as much today.

 

[seysearles]

Roughy copped criticism right up until about 2013, when he won the Coleman. The whole squad copped it in 2009-2012 for not been hard enough to win under pressure. Think of all those losses to Geelong and how much our own fans raged at the players during that period. It’s easy in hindsight to say they were all warriors but few were saying that in the years we lost.

I will agree with that although i stand by my claim that you need to be born with that kind of drive and players that have it are valuable commodities.

Some of them off the the top of my head are:

Voss, Carey, Archer, Matthews, Hodge, Selwood, Barassi, Ayres, Buckley. J.Brown, P.Kelly and even lesser skilled guys like Worsfold, Hurn, Maxwell, Ricciutto, Boak, B.Hall.

All those guys really really care about winning and make it their business to set the standards. I'm not saying that they dont have their faults and im also not saying that our list is full of guys that dont try but i do think that its a character type. There are players that take it personally and do it because they cant live with losing and there are those that do it because its what theyre supposed to do. I dont see that many of the former on our list and i think if we want to succeed we want as many of them on our list as possible.

Thankfully our coach is one of them so lets hope that bleeds into the recruitment strategy.

 

[seysearles]

Will Day.

Start watching him mate.

Even Bucks said as much today.

You could be right about that. I really hope so. As I have mentioned I see so many similarities between him and James Hird. If he could be half the player that Hird was it was would be incredible.

 

[Dipper]

Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

50

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

is the most kumbaya individual in the AFL bar none.

 

[Dewnior]

How about reading through some of these articles and rethinking your version of events.

Hodge like Archer in spirit: Clarkson

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawks look to next generation for show of leadership

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawthorn's young talent shows plenty of promise

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Luke Hodge :: Articles

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Yes Hodge was overweight and rough around the edges when he arrived at the club and he burdened a heavy load with the number 1 pick and the fact that Judd had such an amazing start to his career, but he always had immense leadership qualities and the will to win. i remember seeing an interview with recruiter Kevin Sheehan talking about how he advised the clubs whoever made the mistake of not selecting Hodge in the draft would regret it until the end of his days. So whilst he was rough around the edges it was always clear to all but the most cynical supporter that he was a special player and a competitive beast. Why else would he have ben elevated to the leadership group in his 3rd season at the age of 20?

HHQ, those were the days. Still bitter at getting booted off

 

[TylerDurden]

Craig McRae is the most kumbaya individual in the AFL bar none.

How could you not love him.

 

[Colloquy]

HHQ, those were the days. Still bitter at getting booted off

It was a great forum

 

[Brishawk]

I will agree with that although i stand by my claim that you need to be born with that kind of drive and players that have it are valuable commodities.

Some of them come of the the top of my head are:

Voss, Carey, Archer, Matthews, Hodge, Selwood, Barassi, Ayres, Buckley. J.Brown, P.Kelly and even lesser skilled guys like Worsfold, Hurn, Maxwell, Ricciutto, Boak, B.Hall.

All those guys really really care about winning and make it their business to set the standards. I'm not saying that they dont have their faults and im also not saying that our list is full of guys that dont try but i do think that its a character type. There are players that take it personally and do it because they cant live with losing and there are those that do it because its what theyre supposed to do. I dont see that many of the former on our list and i think if we want to succeed we want as many of them on our list as possible.

Thankfully our coach is one of the them so lets hope that bleeds into the recruitment strategy.

View attachment 1682266

You have a fixed mindset. People aren’t born with it. They develop drive in response to their environment through success and failure.

Here is a thread on Sam Mitchell from 2012 questioning his drive and form (and disposal). For the record, he went on to win the Brownlow and we finished top of the ladder only to lose in the gf. No one is happy when we are losing and everyone is gushing in hindsight. Just relax and let things develop.

Sam Mitchell Discussion.

Just throwing his name up for discussion as he never seems to be under the microscope. Is not having his best season and that stupid coat-hanger job on Jake King, in the first quarter, was hardly inspiring from a leader and indicative of a guy under a bit of pressure. Whilst he wasn't in our...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Yardie]

How about reading through some of these articles and rethinking your version of events.

Hodge like Archer in spirit: Clarkson

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawks look to next generation for show of leadership

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawthorn's young talent shows plenty of promise

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Luke Hodge :: Articles

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks

www.hawkheadquarters.com

Yes Hodge was overweight and rough around the edges when he arrived at the club and he burdened a heavy load with the number 1 pick and the fact that Judd had such an amazing start to his career, but he always had immense leadership qualities and the will to win. i remember seeing an interview with recruiter Kevin Sheehan talking about how he advised the clubs whoever made the mistake of not selecting Hodge in the draft would regret it until the end of his days. So whilst he was rough around the edges it was always clear to all but the most cynical supporter that he was a special player and a competitive beast. Why else would he have ben elevated to the leadership group in his 3rd season at the age of 20?

Firstly, Hawk Head Quarters as your source of unbiased new outlet........seriously

Secondly, I'm just pointing out that we are on the start of the journey and you trying to compare late Luke Hodge with our youngsters instead of early Luke Hodge.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Leadership is the issue.

Talent is there, but there's no leadership. You have Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

who tries to lift his teammates, but that's it. There's no ben Dixon

Ben Dixon

Age

46

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.4

5star

instructing young forwards when and where to lead at the sacrifice of his own game.

There's no Richie Vandenberg bleeding for the jumper.

There's no Shane Crawford pushing the training standards.

Those three were the catalyst for hawthorns rebuild. They built the culture.

 

[Dewnior]

Leadership is the issue.

Talent is there, but there's no leadership. You have Dylan Moore who tries to lift his teammates, but that's it. There's no ben Dixon instructing young forwards when and where to lead at the sacrifice of his own game.

There's no Richie Vandenberg bleeding for the jumper.

There's no Shane Crawford pushing the training standards.

Those three were the catalyst for hawthorns rebuild. They built the culture.

Losing Gunston and both of JOM / TOM have hurt in this regard but I have faith that the likes of Day, Ward, Moore & Lewis will pick up the slack

 

[seysearles]

Losing Gunston and both of JOM / TOM have hurt in this regard but I have faith that the likes of Day, Ward, Moore & Lewis will pick up the slack

You see this is where i disagree. Gunston perhaps to some extent as an organiser for the forward group but those other 2 were wet blankets.

They could both play football but i wouldn't follow either of them into a milk bar let alone a battle.

We need testosterone and alpha male energy out there on the field.