Opinion Creating a Culture of Success at Hawthorn

[Cyril says]

For failed rebuilds we don’t have to look far - Carlton in the Murphy/Judd era for instance.

It’s early days and I’d agree we keep bringing in grit and class in equal measure.

In the 12 club era this was a lot easier than in the 18 club era - previously there were only 7 or 8 serious clubs, now there are probably double that. You now have to get everything right to win a flag - not just culture and talent.

Our secret ingredient IMO is Sam Mitchell. He’s a smart, uncompromising winner, and he’s done it himself - he’s McCrae AND Buckley; he’s our Leigh Matthews in the coaches box.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Was at a Luke Hodge event last night.
Hodge said early in his career he cared more about having fun and being with his mates off-field. It wasn't until he was pulled into line by senior figures, and shown how to train and prepare, did it come together.

Do we have any senior types to lead the way like that? They all seem like they'd rather be chilling out

 

[Brishawk]

Minor point for the record Selwood's Geelong didn't win a flag in the first 10 years of his captaincy.

Ling and Harley were the premiership captains of their elite period.

I think this is what I'm getting at. Selwood is the poster boy of alpha stuff that has the commentators frothing - but it was the silly orange haired idiot that actually led them to a premiership within 2 seasons after the clear-speaking, not-very-masculine Tom Harley that had captained 2 flags in the three seasons prior.

I think it's totally fine to love these alpha guys, that do seriously hard things. As a fan it's awesome to see and really gets the blood pumping. I loved seeing Roughy destroy Hannebery in the 2012 grand final for example. I love seeing all that stuff too. But I'm not attributing success to sides that do that. And I think all the stories of players being shitty at each other after a loss etc is just theatre. I played a high level of sport and the best players were a mix of those over-emotional "throw the toys" types and hyper-focused, calm, high performers.

Yes - successful teams always have a bunch that set standards and hold everyone to account.
No - I don't think it requires the captain to be a Hodge, or Selwood or Voss type.

Shouldn’t underestimate the impact of scarlet in 2011 either. He was the one who brought the players all together for one last flag tilt.

 

[Brishawk]

Was at a Luke Hodge event last night.
Hodge said early in his career he cared more about having fun and being with his mates off-field. It wasn't until he was pulled into line by senior figures, and shown how to train and prepare, did it come together.

Do we have any senior types to lead the way like that? They all seem like they'd rather be chilling out

I think we have several. But it takes time to grow into the roll. I have noticed that Hardwick, someone not particularly know for speaking, has been talking to the other defenders after errors etc.

Will day and jai Newcombe also prepare for games really well. Day more vocal where as jai at his stage is more by example.

Breust more of the teacher type than us been discussed here but make no doubt about how professional he is and what wisdom he passes on to team mates.

Morrison and Finn are also very vocal leaders even though they aren’t our best players.

Mitche Lewis is our spiritual leader now though. No doubt he is our next captain if his body holds up.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Was at a Luke Hodge event last night.
Hodge said early in his career he cared more about having fun and being with his mates off-field. It wasn't until he was pulled into line by senior figures, and shown how to train and prepare, did it come together.

Do we have any senior types to lead the way like that? They all seem like they'd rather be chilling out

I feel like the Coach is the man to do this.

In time I expect Ward, Day and Newcombe will be three players that will set the standard on and off the field. Ward in particular, I believe he will become a genuine leader through the example he sets.

 

[seysearles]

I agree with the idea that your captain doesn’t necessarily have to be an alpha male. Crawf was a great captain, but hardly an alpha male. Good captains come in all shapes and sizes- one common denominator is they command the respect of their teammates. Additionally, a club can choose the wrong person to be captain. I’m not convinced that the playing group is the right cohort to be selecting the captain, either. If we haven’t already moved away from this method of selecting a captain, we should.

Crawf was short but he was definitely passionate and outspoken about standards. He was pretty alpha if you ask me. I wouldn’t be unhappy if the Ward’s McDonald’s and McKenzie’s on our list developed into him, put it that way.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

People talk about leadership qualities; it got me thinking about Tucky. Admittedly we had great players, but Tucky was made captain at 32 and led the club to 4 flags. Tuck wouldn't say much, the respect players had for him was immense, and he led by example on the field. We don't have anyone of that ilk at the club right now.

I've been hanging out to see how Ward would develop, I've looked at him as a Hodge type. Only time will tell. Newcombe's also a likely type. There was a reference earlier about young Hodge. He was what we would call "a lad". In other words, he tended to play up a bit, missing practice after his 21st is an example, but I'm told by coaches at the time nobody worked harder on the track than Hodgey. He was an obvious future leader.

It used to drive me nuts back then when people would make comparisons with Judd, suggesting the Hawks made the wrong choice. I never thought we did; Hodge was what we needed. Easy to say now, but if you had the time to read my posts back then, I always defended our choice. In those first 2-3 years, Hodge was a kid being asked to pretty much hold the defence together whereas Judd was the 4th of a very strong midfield quartet for the Eagles, being checked by the 4th best midfielder in the opposition, and pretty much being allowed to play as he pleased. Hodge never had that luxury.

People tend to be using youth as an excuse for some ordinary performances. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we have the youngest list of players in the AFL when we won the 2008 flag? We were blessed with our young players at the time. It was a 16 team competition, pre- Gold Coast and GWS. We also had priority picks which allowed us to take picks 2, 5, & 7. I can't see us ever being able to pick up three lads of the quality of Roughead, Buddy and Lewis in the same draft ever again.

This rebuild and road back to the top is going to be a lot tougher than before. Baring a miracle, the 2020s will be the first decade since the 1950s where we did not win at least one flag.

 

[seysearles]