Dank's D-day looms....April 10th

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I Rock said:
1. It was 12 clubs. "The supplements survey also found that 12 clubs conducted programs with medium or high levels of supplement use and lacked "a single point of accountability". Seriously a little research might be handy. Much like knowing ASADA called the ACC not the other way around.

2. What's your point. Have you proof these other supplements used by other clubs were banned by WADA? By the way Saad had an energy drink of fizz not a milkshake.

3. What's your point.

As for the rest; I like how you say it's dribble (so as not to have to acknowledge all these damming activities by Essendon) when in actual fact it is what Essendon have done. See what you claim as dribble; is the basis of what makes the program at Essendon and the behaviour of the club and officials from when this all went public so totally lacking in ethics and disgusting. As for your Governance deflects. Again my point stands, find me evidence of any other club doing one of those things and we can talk.

Lets take Melbourne for example, a case and point well brought up. Firstly not club sanctioned and Doctor was fired. What did
Essendon do again with the main architects of their doping program.....gave him a contract extension and paid vacation. Wow wee.
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12 clubs including Essendon, or 11 other clubs... Understand? We will never know the extent of what happened at clubs like Melbourne because they were not investigated. There are some damning text messages by Dank and their doctor that suggest a program similar to EFC was underway. Melb firing their doctor is irrelevant (and certainly not a reason to avoid investigation) what matters is what happened, and we will never know. If you're happy believing EFC was the only one, enjoy that.

And the 'drivel' (not dribble) has already been acknowledged. It is just derailing every thread as you attempt to get EFC supporters to (I assume) admit. Which is old ground. I have said repeatedly stuff went down, and acknowledge EFC was the worst. If you think NOTHING happened at any other club you are dreaming.
 
Duckworth said:
12 clubs including Essendon, or 11 other clubs... Understand? We will never know the extent of what happened at clubs like Melbourne because they were not investigated. There are some damning text messages by Dank and their doctor that suggest a program similar to EFC was underway. Melb firing their doctor is irrelevant (and certainly not a reason to avoid investigation) what matters is what happened, and we will never know. If you're happy believing EFC was the only one, enjoy that.

And the 'drivel' (not dribble) has already been acknowledged. It is just derailing every thread as you attempt to get EFC supporters to (I assume) admit. Which is old ground. I have said repeatedly stuff went down, and acknowledge EFC was the worst. If you think NOTHING happened at any other club you are dreaming.
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12 clubs reported 12 clubs mentioned. Get it. Do you know that ASADA are not investigating Melbourne. Have they stated that. We know of the Essendon investigation because the AFL tried to control the damage.

No hijacking threads is Essendon supporters continuing to try to associate the report of 12 clubs having medium to high supplement use in any way means they ran a program like Essendon. FIND SOME EVIDENCE BEYOND THIS HOT WORD GOVERNANCE YOU LIKE TO TOTE AROUND.
 
I Rock said:
12 clubs reported 12 clubs mentioned. Get it. Do you know that ASADA are not investigating Melbourne. Have they stated that. We know of the Essendon investigation because the AFL tried to control the damage.

No hijacking threads is Essendon supporters continuing to try to associate the report of 12 clubs having medium to high supplement use in any way means they ran a program like Essendon. FIND SOME EVIDENCE BEYOND THIS HOT WORD GOVERNANCE YOU LIKE TO TOTE AROUND.
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Governance, that's what essendon were punished for. Are you saying 12 other clubs could've been in the same boat as essendon?
 

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yodellinhank said:
Governance, that's what essendon were punished for. Are you saying 12 other clubs could've been in the same boat as essendon?
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Seriously get a clue if you think Essendon were done for simply governance. It was what the Governance allowed to happen and what happened is what Essendon got stung for. Find proof other clubs were up to the same disgraceful s**t as Essendon or stop clutching at straws to justify the disgrace that is the Essendon football club.
 
I Rock said:
Seriously get a clue if you think Essendon were done for simply governance. It was what the Governance allowed to happen and what happened is what Essendon got stung for. Find proof other clubs were up to the same disgraceful s**t as Essendon or stop clutching at straws to justify the disgrace that is the Essendon football club.
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Why, what happened? You've seem to have a firm belief something against the wada code has occurred, but we haven't heard anything of the sort in the whole investigation.

12 clubs without accountability, inadequate records and/or exposure to risk.

Maybe your anger is a product of the fear your club did some of the things essendon was punished for?
 
Duckworth said:
that is why we said low doses/short period. It was 4 doses over 4 weeks.
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A similar clinical study was conducted in obese subjects.... Each subject received 4 single doses (25, 50 and 100 μg/kg AOD9604 or placebo; single IV infusion doses over 20 minutes), separated by a 7-day washout period.




In short-term studies, some obese people injected with AOD-9604 experienced headache, chest tightness, palpitations and euphoric feelings, which were considered to be drug-related
Duckworth said:
12 clubs including Essendon, or 11 other clubs... Understand? We will never know the extent of what happened at clubs like Melbourne because they were not investigated. There are some damning text messages by Dank and their doctor that suggest a program similar to EFC was underway. Melb firing their doctor is irrelevant (and certainly not a reason to avoid investigation) what matters is what happened, and we will never know. If you're happy believing EFC was the only one, enjoy that.

And the 'drivel' (not dribble) has already been acknowledged. It is just derailing every thread as you attempt to get EFC supporters to (I assume) admit. Which is old ground. I have said repeatedly stuff went down, and acknowledge EFC was the worst. If you think NOTHING happened at any other club you are dreaming.
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I always thought Melbourne are under investigation as well as Essendon.
Kinda makes this post look stupid if they are.
 
yodellinhank said:
Why, what happened? You've seem to have a firm belief something against the wada code has occurred, but we haven't heard anything of the sort in the whole investigation.

12 clubs without accountability, inadequate records and/or exposure to risk.

Maybe your anger is a product of the fear your club did some of the things essendon was punished for?
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Maybe you over estimate the club you follow. I hardly fear a corporation forced from their place of operations to a tin shed because of a lawn bowls club.

I don't think you realise what Essendon got charge with or for. You obviously have no clue that the AFL have already identified and recorded a breach of the WADA and AFL code by Essendon.

You seem to actually think poor governance is the extent of what Essendon were found to have done by the AFL investigation. You obviously have a very small grasp of anything.

Read the charge sheet. Scroll through the statement of grounds. And then get back to me. Oh and look up what statement of grounds means.
 
mxett said:
How can Essendon control who their pharmacist gets his raw materials from?
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Easily

I've been backing the right for you guys to have a fair hearing, but this is a separate issue

We demand toy companies know where their paints come from, food companies their ingredients from, it's not unreasonable to expect supplements to be tracked from source

Fwiw however, my experiences in other industries and the reaction from all clubs indicates to me 0/18 were monitoring this seriously prior to the efc cluster *
 
I Rock said:
Maybe you over estimate the club you follow. I hardly fear a corporation forced from their place of operations to a tin shed because of a lawn bowls club.

I don't think you realise what Essendon got charge with or for. You obviously have no clue that the AFL have already identified and recorded a breach of the WADA and AFL code by Essendon.

You seem to actually think poor governance is the extent of what Essendon were found to have done by the AFL investigation. You obviously have a very small grasp of anything.

Read the charge sheet. Scroll through the statement of grounds. And then get back to me. Oh and look up what statement of grounds means.
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We happened to move to the biggest and best training facilities in the league as it was the logical thing to do. You obviously aren't familiar with the financials of the bowls club, suffice to say it would've been easy for the club to sway their opinion.

I'd love you to show me how the club breached the code, but don't bother getting back to me until you've sorted it out for Asada, because they aren't aware of anything and I think they should know.

It is sad that the grasp you say you have on the situation doesn't marry up with any of the facts. I truly feel sorry for the delusional, and I hope you get the help you need.
 
Bobby Charlton said:
The AFL clearly state that the Essendon penalties were for governance issues.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-27/essendon-penalties
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At what did those Governance issues lead too, or do you just think they penalised the club for being bad at office stuff.

yodellinhank said:
We happened to move to the biggest and best training facilities in the league as it was the logical thing to do. You obviously aren't familiar with the financials of the bowls club, suffice to say it would've been easy for the club to sway their opinion.

I'd love you to show me how the club breached the code, but don't bother getting back to me until you've sorted it out for Asada, because they aren't aware of anything and I think they should know.

It is sad that the grasp you say you have on the situation doesn't marry up with any of the facts. I truly feel sorry for the delusional, and I hope you get the help you need.
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If you took the time to actually read up on s**t you are commenting on, you would have noticed this as part of the Statement of Grounds (you know the AFL saying we know you did this stuff so we are going to punish you because of this stuff) listed at number 50.

50. The players’ blood was analysed for, inter alia, Insulin Growth Factor 1, which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code. Analysing players’ blood for Insulin Growth Factor 1 is inconsistent with the rational and legitimate analysis of players’ blood in accordance with the reasonable practice of the medical departments of AFL Clubs.

If you also took the time to read the boards and not type garbage like a tin shed is the best facilities ever, you would have seen it mentioned multiple times on the HTB as well.

So what did you say again...oh that's right. It is sad that the grasp you say you have on the situation doesn't marry up with any of the facts. I truly feel sorry for the delusional, and I hope you get the help you need. Maybe take your own advice and ask the doctor if he can prescribe you a clue.
 

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I Rock said:
At what did those Governance issues lead too, or do you just think they penalised the club for being bad at office stuff.



If you took the time to actually read up on s**t you are commenting on, you would have noticed this as part of the Statement of Grounds (you know the AFL saying we know you did this stuff so we are going to punish you because of this stuff) listed at number 50.

50. The players’ blood was analysed for, inter alia, Insulin Growth Factor 1, which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code. Analysing players’ blood for Insulin Growth Factor 1 is inconsistent with the rational and legitimate analysis of players’ blood in accordance with the reasonable practice of the medical departments of AFL Clubs.

If you also took the time to read the boards and not type garbage like a tin shed is the best facilities ever, you would have seen it mentioned multiple times on the HTB as well.

So what did you say again...oh that's right. It is sad that the grasp you say you have on the situation doesn't marry up with any of the facts. I truly feel sorry for the delusional, and I hope you get the help you need. Maybe take your own advice and ask the doctor if he can prescribe you a clue.
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You're still yet to provide me an example of how the club breached the code, though I'm glad you finally agree that it was governance issues the club was guilty of.

Baby steps, you'll get there eventually.
 
yodellinhank said:
You're still yet to provide me an example of how the club breached the code, though I'm glad you finally agree that it was governance issues the club was guilty of.

Baby steps, you'll get there eventually.
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50. The players’ blood was analysed for, inter alia, Insulin Growth Factor 1, which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code. Analysing players’ blood for Insulin Growth Factor 1 is inconsistent with the rational and legitimate analysis of players’ blood in accordance with the reasonable practice of the medical departments of AFL Clubs.

Essendon's program Essendon's breach.

Baby steps you will get there. And as for your medical condition that means you have a serious learning disability; just don't get medication from Essendon doctors, they don't know what it will be or do or why.


Governance...yep. Essendon are bad at running stuff. Other clubs are bad at running stuff. Must be the same thing.

Flog
 
I Rock said:
50. The players’ blood was analysed for, inter alia, Insulin Growth Factor 1, which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code. Analysing players’ blood for Insulin Growth Factor 1 is inconsistent with the rational and legitimate analysis of players’ blood in accordance with the reasonable practice of the medical departments of AFL Clubs.

Essendon's program Essendon's breach.

Baby steps you will get there. And as for your medical condition that means you have a serious learning disability; just don't get medication from Essendon doctors, they don't know what it will be or do or why.


Governance...yep. Essendon are bad at running stuff. Other clubs are bad at running stuff. Must be the same thing.

Flog
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So you are saying the blood analysis itself is banned?
 
yodellinhank said:
So you are saying the blood analysis itself is banned?
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Not me specifically, the AFL & WADA code is. But yes that type of blood analysis is a breach of the code.

This is in writing, recorded as part of the charge and justification to why the charge will be going forward. The Statement of Grounds is the AFL saying during our investigation we found this happened . After Essendon accepted the charge they basically in writing accepted that all those thing in fact did happen. So we do know despite the AFL lying (but hey its not like the AFL to lie. I mean Melbourne never tanked) a couple of weeks later about no breaches to date being found, at least one was found. And that one is on record.

The only thing up for discussion now is will Essendon have to face from the AFL these same actions found and subsequently formed as part of the Statement of Grounds (along with any number of other potential ASADA findings) under the Drug Code. Lance Uppercut (he has some good points to present) and I have on and off again argued this. I think yes, he thinks no.

"Governance" was a nice media friendly term the AFL & Essendon could use at the time (negotiated well played Little). The AFL get to kick Essendon out of the finals and be seen to be doing something. Essendon haven't accepted guilt towards the ongoing ASADA investigation and they think they are done (for the time being). What Essendon did is the basis for the charge and punishment. Not some key word of "Governance" it's a Governance charge under S1.6. Great, but the extent of the punishment, the reason for the punishment is conveniently listed in the AFL Statement of Grounds. Beyond just other clubs have Governance issues, find me proof that they had club sanctioned issues like the one I listed posts ago. Then we can talk about their programs.
 
Duckworth said:
12 clubs including Essendon, or 11 other clubs... Understand? We will never know the extent of what happened at clubs like Melbourne because they were not investigated. There are some damning text messages by Dank and their doctor that suggest a program similar to EFC was underway. Melb firing their doctor is irrelevant (and certainly not a reason to avoid investigation) what matters is what happened, and we will never know. If you're happy believing EFC was the only one, enjoy that.

And the 'drivel' (not dribble) has already been acknowledged. It is just derailing every thread as you attempt to get EFC supporters to (I assume) admit. Which is old ground. I have said repeatedly stuff went down, and acknowledge EFC was the worst. If you think NOTHING happened at any other club you are dreaming.
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It's funny how the same Essendon people stating AOD is off the table want Melbourne investigated for AOD.
 
I Rock said:
Not me specifically, the AFL & WADA code is. But yes that type of blood analysis is a breach of the code.

This is in writing, recorded as part of the charge and justification to why the charge will be going forward. The Statement of Grounds is the AFL saying during our investigation we found this happened . After Essendon accepted the charge they basically in writing accepted that all those thing in fact did happen. So we do know despite the AFL lying (but hey its not like the AFL to lie. I mean Melbourne never tanked) a couple of weeks later about no breaches to date being found, at least one was found. And that one is on record.

The only thing up for discussion now is will Essendon have to face from the AFL these same actions found and subsequently formed as part of the Statement of Grounds (along with any number of other potential ASADA findings) under the Drug Code. Lance Uppercut (he has some good points to present) and I have on and off again argued this. I think yes, he thinks no.

"Governance" was a nice media friendly term the AFL & Essendon could use at the time (negotiated well played Little). The AFL get to kick Essendon out of the finals and be seen to be doing something. Essendon haven't accepted guilt towards the ongoing ASADA investigation and they think they are done (for the time being). What Essendon did is the basis for the charge and punishment. Not some key word of "Governance" it's a Governance charge under S1.6. Great, but the extent of the punishment, the reason for the punishment is conveniently listed in the AFL Statement of Grounds. Beyond just other clubs have Governance issues, find me proof that they had club sanctioned issues like the one I listed posts ago. Then we can talk about their programs.
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I suggest you are reading it wrong. IGF 1 is banned, not testing for it. But if you have information to the contrary, you'd better tell asada: there's an 8 year statute of limitations to adhere to and at the rate they are moving... It's almost as if they don't share your concerns
 
yodellinhank said:
I suggest you are reading it wrong. IGF 1 is banned, not testing for it. But if you have information to the contrary, you'd better tell asada: there's an 8 year statute of limitations to adhere to and at the rate they are moving... It's almost as if they don't share your concerns
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I suggest you are reading it wrong. Especially when you take into consideration that IGF-1 is produced by the body naturally. So are you suggesting WADA have banned a natural body process now? Wow ASADA are getting tough. I would suggest you are now embarrassing yourself and it might be time to call it a night.

I don't think I need to tell ASADA anything, I'm tipping they know already. Is there a statue of limitations on making a arse of yourself? You might want to check into that. I mean even if you didn't take the time to do a quick check on what you were trying to claim as fact. Even your theory is messed up on testing for what you claim was a banned substance. Why would they test for a substance level, unless they were using it. Wow wee indeed.
 
I Rock said:
I suggest you are reading it wrong. Especially when you take into consideration that IGF-1 is produced by the body naturally. So are you suggesting WADA have banned a natural body process now? Wow ASADA are getting tough. I would suggest you are now embarrassing yourself and it might be time to call it a night.

I don't think I need to tell ASADA anything, I'm tipping they know already. Is there a statue of limitations on making a arse of yourself? You might want to check into that. I mean even if you didn't take the time to do a quick check on what you were trying to claim as fact. Even your theory is messed up on testing for what you claim was a banned substance. Why would they test for a substance level, unless they were using it. Wow wee indeed.
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The only thing embarrassing me is my side's lamentable form. I'm a little embarrassed on your behalf however, although I'd be happy to accept your forthcoming apology re: igf 1
http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/wada-statement-on-the-prohibited-substance-igf-1/
 
I Rock said:
I suggest you are reading it wrong. Especially when you take into consideration that IGF-1 is produced by the body naturally. So are you suggesting WADA have banned a natural body process now? Wow ASADA are getting tough. I would suggest you are now embarrassing yourself and it might be time to call it a night.

I don't think I need to tell ASADA anything, I'm tipping they know already. Is there a statue of limitations on making a arse of yourself? You might want to check into that. I mean even if you didn't take the time to do a quick check on what you were trying to claim as fact. Even your theory is messed up on testing for what you claim was a banned substance. Why would they test for a substance level, unless they were using it. Wow wee indeed.
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Testosterone is prohibited too
 
Armchair Critic said:
Testosterone is prohibited too
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I'm a goose, will put my hand up. No excuse but long day in the studio. I was under the impression that the substances that increased level of IGF-1 would be named as specifics. Not the actually natural body substances. That way you get done for high levels the same way you would Testosterone. I didn't think they would call the ban on something that the body produces, just substances that overly increase it.
 
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