Essendon can't live without pokies funding says David Barham

[bzparkes]

Given the fact they are the only Vic club that has never owned or profited off Pokies revenue, North fans have every right to claim the moral high ground here.

It's more the pretense that Essendon wouldn't be able to survive without pokies, whilst North would be completely insolvent without one of the highest distributions from the AFL, despite likely contributing the least to the current financial standing of the game.

Then they'll point to them being in the 'black', which is entirely due to the AFL and through no means of their own.

At least St Kilda supporters don't attempt to take the moral high-ground over other clubs.

 

[ferball]

Yep, recognise that - and think it’s a part of responsible gambling that isn’t regulated well enough. Because it’s complex and governments don’t understand it.

I don’t think they’re inherently like that however - it’s a design feature that can be neutralised.

You could build gambling machines that didn't have the whistles, bells and flashing lights but then they wouldn't be as effective at fleecing punters...

NSW pubs used to have card machines - you'd play poker against the machine and then could bet on black or red with your winnings to double up. It was boring and they didn't garner revenue like pokies. if anything they lost revenue cos the secondary, black or red bets followed one of about three patterns (ie r, b, r b, b, r or whatever) and most people had worked out those patterns to the point where if you won a game you could follow the pattern till you had enough money for a couple of beers.

You could finish work put two bucks thru the machine and you'd end up with a couple of schooners and the money to play a game of pool on the way home.

If you really wanted you could probably spend a few hours on an old cardie machine and make fifty or a hundred bucks by following the pattern till you'd won five bucks off each bet. You'd probably spend as much time as many people do on pokies but without the flashing lights, noises and general over stimulation. The tech would be advanced enough now that there wouldn't be that pre-programmed pattern you could exploit tho.

 

[ferball]

It's more the pretense that Essendon wouldn't be able to survive without pokies, whilst North would be completely insolvent without one of the highest distributions from the AFL, despite likely contributing the least to the current financial standing of the game.

Then they'll point to them being in the 'black', which is entirely due to the AFL and through no means of their own.

At least St Kilda supporters don't attempt to take the moral high-ground over other clubs.

Give us the sort of draw clubs like the "big four" get and see what happens to our revenue base.

 

[windyhill]

Given the fact they are the only Vic club that has never owned or profited off Pokies revenue, North fans have every right to claim the moral high ground here.

Pre 2008 they did. Does ROOBET ring a bell ?

 

[dave10]

A despicable club

A more successful Club in Premiership success throughout its history though - that’s all that matters.

 

[dave10]

Morals….

So it’s ok to earn money by sponsorships from fast food chains which harms the community with obesity, diabetes…

Sugar Sugar sugar….. no warning text on candy.

The treatment of animals in the meat industry is cruel, mentality insane…

What’s the difference with pokies and online gambling? For some gambling can be a disaster like a drug habit. But at least with pokies they get out and socialize and not just stay at home.

But everyone has their own standards, but I say if it’s legal then clubs can do what they want. I support the club that plays, don’t give hoots what they do or don’t do for the community. I mean if say your club go back or continue with pokies or become Chippendale dancers will you stop supporting them?

Just because I barrack for a club does not mean I need to agree or defend their actions.

There are many here on high horses, but nitpicking about one subject. But every club is supporting some thing that is seen as morally wrong, as well all clubs supports right things as well.

If it’s a big problem then why not make it illegal?

Like why are **** cigarettes still legal?

Great post.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Give us the sort of draw clubs like the "big four" get and see what happens to our revenue base.

The AFL has screwed North back to a point that it wouldn't matter. Let's say we hit our stride next year and get back to being a top 4 side by 2025. Even if we received a 1990's like Fixture with 8 Friday night games in 2026, they wouldn't be as well attended as a larger club like Collingwood or Richmond. The natural reaction would be a swift reduction to 1-2 Friday night games for North.

Which is a disgrace because North were the club that popularised the Friday night fixture, when every other club wanted to stick to the traditional Saturday 2pm timeslot. As soon as an innovative concept becomes popular, the AFL jump to throw in their maximum revenue making options and literally f**k the rest. This has been going on for over 20 years now.

20 years of dominance in exposure which leads to growth in members, sponsorship and gate revenue for the biggest clubs at the expense of the smaller Victorian clubs. An equalisation fund will never bridge the gap between the largest and smallest clubs because it merely enables them to compete, not to grow at a comparable pace.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Id quicken the need for them by just starting to sell crack.

Its much more ethical to sell crack then pokies. Forget the legality aspect of it all and just do it and get past this as quickly as you can

 

[bzparkes]

Give us the sort of draw clubs like the "big four" get and see what happens to our revenue base.

Probably not much.

You need supporters to attend games to generate big revenue, as well as having multiple streams outside of that.

Relying on Big 4 crowds to do it for you will only affect a handful of games per year.

I think clubs having pokies venues is deplorable, so I applaud North not going down that path.

Some North supporters seem to want to take the moral high-ground about not having pokies venues and being debt-free, when that's entirely down to the AFL completely propping them up.

The same AFL that makes a ridiculous amount of money through gambling sponsorships/revenue...

 

[GWT6]

We had to sell home games to Darwin and Cairns

Champ

Imagine if you didn't have the AFL gifting you the best timeslots. Would have been out of business.

 

[HairyO]

"Other clubs have weaned themselves off them."

Indeed, by putting their hands out for more money from the AFL. Who of course get their funds from organisations like sportssafe? Nobet? Hmm... no... those don't sound right.

Hawthorn gets handouts? Want to list them ?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Probably not much.

You need supporters to attend games to generate big revenue, as well as having multiple streams outside of that.

Relying on Big 4 crowds to do it for you will only affect a handful of games per year.

I think clubs having pokies venues is deplorable, so I applaud North not going down that path.

Some North supporters seem to want to take the moral high-ground about not having pokies venues and being debt-free, when that's entirely down to the AFL completely propping them up.

The same AFL that makes a ridiculous amount of money through gambling sponsorships/revenue...

Id rather the AFL prop them up and with Essendon they 100% should be doing that

Its as much the AFL fault as Essendons this. 50/50 blame

 

[Danw0w]

Imagine if you didn't have the AFL gifting you the best timeslots. Would have been out of business.

We didn't until we started playing finals, like any other side. We miss the finals in 2016 and we instantly get removed from Friday night football.

What's your club's excuse? Why is a club with a recent premiership, 3 top four finishes in a row and the fifth highest attendance receiving so much extra funding?

 

[Caligo]

Pre 2008 they did. Does ROOBET ring a bell ?

What was roobet?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

What was roobet?

Online crypto casino in Malta. Basically where 90% of child bride purchaes were going through

 

[Juddernaut08]

Pokies are a dirty business. Their overall impact on the community is negative.

Essendon are obviously the worst club morally, but they aren't alone - all clubs (including mine) should look to phase it out. There's enough money in the game that clubs shouldn't have to rely on it.

Just because there are other things people don't like, doesn't justify pokies. Get rid of it.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Sorry if this sounds dense, but can someone explain to me why clubs need so much money anyway? They are supposed to be non-profit. As long as the rules are applied evenly, what is the problem if clubs can't raise revenue from pokies? It's like the weak-arsed excuse from the AFL about the money they make from gambling advertising.

Ok, so let's say you take $100m out of the game... and? Clubs employ less support staff, less coaches, less sports scientists, etc. Maybe the players get paid a little bit less. Maybe we don't need 35 umpires each game. Maybe some of the senior execs don't get the huge bonuses.

The game won't collapse.

 

[Caligo]

Online crypto casino in Malta. Basically where 90% of child bride purchaes were going through

Was it in some way associated with NM? Or just a funny joke?

 

[Caligo]

Sorry if this sounds dense, but can someone explain to me why clubs need so much money anyway? They are supposed to be non-profit. As long as the rules are applied evenly, what is the problem if clubs can't raise revenue from pokies? It's like the weak-arsed excuse from the AFL about the money they make from gambling advertising.

Ok, so let's say you take $100m out of the game... and? Clubs employ less support staff, less coaches, less sports scientists, etc. Maybe the players get paid a little bit less. Maybe we don't need 35 umpires each game. Maybe some of the senior execs don't get the huge bonuses.

The game won't collapse.

Back before soft caps having more cash at your club made a huge difference in terms of staffing and technical support for players. I don't believe that is really the case any more. The facilities themselves are not part of the soft cap though, so having extra cash means better training facilities I think.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Was it in some way associated with NM? Or just a funny joke?

Dunno. Stake.com which is a similar company has links to St Kilda though

 

[GWT6]

We didn't until we started playing finals, like any other side. We miss the finals in 2016 and we instantly get removed from Friday night football.

What's your club's excuse? Why is a club with a recent premiership, 3 top four finishes in a row and the fifth highest attendance receiving so much extra funding?

Because Melbourne had a commercially s**t fixture for 20 years.

Comprehension not your strong suit champ?

 

[Danw0w]

Because Melbourne had a commercially s**t fixture for 20 years.

Comprehension not your strong suit champ?

Hypocrite

 

[ferball]

Pre 2008 they did. Does ROOBET ring a bell ?

Pre 2008 doesn't count tho.

 

[eggtardo]

North

Given the fact they are the only Vic club that has never owned or profited off Pokies revenue, North fans have every right to claim the moral high ground here

North had pokies. They were one of the very few organisations that couldn't turn a reasonable profit off them and Tabcorp took them away. That is when they got moral not before.
I support their stance now....but lets not pretend it was because they wanted to be a good community citizen

 

[cryptor]

You've got it back the front champ.

Have a look at the fixtures. Richmond, Collingwood and Cartlon have had an unfair commercial advantage with the fixtures they have been given over the past 20 years, whether they are winning or losing. Hawthorn and Geelong also, but not to the same extent.
Clubs can't generate enough revenue to survive playing at lunchtime on Sunday, that's why they need an additional distribution of AFL revenue.

I'm sure every Vic club near the top of that list would swap the AFL distribution revenue received for the past 20 years with those at the bottom if it also meant changing the fixture.

What rubbish.

Hawks haven't been given a prime time slot since 2019 which was on the back of a top 4 H&A finish in 2018. We've since (rightly) been relegated) to Saturday arvo, Sunday twilight and similarly lame time slots most weeks.

The only exception is the Easter Monday match. Which is generally (outside of last years reigning premiers vs youngest list, and the COVID year) is a high quality match that is well attended. A home fixturing benefit we only see every other year - and not in 2023.

Hawthorn and Geelong have certainly earned their right to that fixture. It'd be hard to argue Melbourne were deserving of keeping their spot in the Queen's Birthday match when they were rubbish for years on end. But I'm sure you'll try.