Club Focus Geelong 2024

[Ticky009]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I'm not convinced in the slightest about any of that, but I'm not trying to talk you out of being optimistic.

Weird passive aggressive tone I must admit.

I've made it pretty clear that many on the Geelong board (including myself), don't have a history of being optimistic on this topic.

I don't think any Geelong supporter in here has said anything outlandish...but if us saying "we're not worried about the youth" is that optimistic to you then hey, each to their own I guess.

We tend to know what delusional optimism is. It was literally 6 years ago that most of our best 'youth' at the time is now out of the league. We seemed to work through that okay.

5 years before that, Billie Smedts, Jordan Murdoch, Josh Caddy, and a crippled Nathan Vardy, Dan Menzel, & Josh Cowan where the headline act. We seemed to traverse those waters pretty well too.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Weird passive aggressive tone I must admit.

I've made it pretty clear that many on the Geelong board )(including myself), don't have a history of being optimistic on this topic.

I don't think any Geelong supporter in here has said anything outlandish...but if us saying "we're not worried about the youth" is that optimistic to you then hey, each to their own I guess.

We tend to know what delusional optimism is. It was literally 6 years ago that most of our best 'youth' at the time is now out of the league. We seemed to work through that okay.

5 years before that, Billie Smedts, Jordan Murdoch, Josh Caddy, and a crippled Nathan Vardy, Dan Menzel, & Josh Cowan where the headline act. We seemed to traverse those waters pretty well too.

The weirdest thing is that, like of course we shouldn't be worried about the youth because fundamentally, youth doesn't win you games of football

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'm not convinced in the slightest about any of that, but I'm not trying to talk you out of being optimistic.

It's a weird time to jump on the "Geelong has no good kids" bandwagon considering our last 10 years.

Clark and O'Sullivan are our highest and 3rd highest draft picks since 2007. I'd love to see a list of draftees at Geelong since 2008 who weren't mature aged recruits who have shown as much as Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn in their first 3 years. My list has a single name on it and he was 2 ACLs down by the end of his 3rd season.

 

[Joao]

It's a weird time to jump on the "Geelong has no good kids" bandwagon considering our last 10 years.

Clark and O'Sullivan are our highest and 3rd highest draft picks since 2007. I'd love to see a list of draftees at Geelong since 2008 who weren't mature aged recruits who have shown as much as Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn in their first 3 years. My list has a single name on it and he was 2 ACLs down by the end of his 3rd season.

I'm not comparing you to other Geelong teams, I'm making the observation that the stuff you are saying sounds eerily similar to literally every old side as their champions started to phase out. I've lived it and watched a handful of other fans do the same.

Feel free to bump the thread in a few years to rub my face in it if I am wrong (and you win a flag or even make a GF), but I'm convinced the odds aren't with you unless you do a proper rebuild.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm not comparing you to other Geelong teams, I'm making the observation that the stuff you are saying sounds eerily similar to literally every old side as their champions started to phase out. I've lived it and watched a handful of other fans do the same.

Feel free to bump the thread in a few years to rub my face in it if I am wrong (and you win a flag or even make a GF), but I'm convinced the odds aren't with you unless you do a proper rebuild.

I guess what we're saying is not that this side is about to turn around and win a flag and that Jhye Clark is the next Patrick Dangerfield. What we're saying is that we have a tonne of kids. More kids will not make this team better. Us possibly falling in a hole does not change that.

You can bump this thread in three years if we're bottom 4 and drafting more will still have been the wrong answer.

 

[STPer18]

and those names won't replace them in a hurry, if at all.

Problem with that is - in the 21st century at least - Geelong's best players are future hall-of-famers and potential legends. You don't have to replace those players to the same level to be a good or premiership level team.

IE not to make this about your team but just to prove the point, Fremantle don't currently have any players on their list who will be the next Matthew Scarlett, G. Ablett Jnr, Tom Hawkins etc. Doesn't mean Freo can't become a premiership level team with their current list, but the bar for the 'replacement test' at Geelong is set far higher than most other clubs.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'm not comparing you to other Geelong teams, I'm making the observation that the stuff you are saying sounds eerily similar to literally every old side as their champions started to phase out. I've lived it and watched a handful of other fans do the same.

Feel free to bump the thread in a few years to rub my face in it if I am wrong (and you win a flag or even make a GF), but I'm convinced the odds aren't with you unless you do a proper rebuild.

But what classifies as a proper rebuild? Do you not think Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn are talented young players? Or Clark and O'Sullivan who were pick 8 and 11 the last 2 drafts? Surely they would all go top 15 if their respective drafts were redone.

Surely if the point of a proper rebuild is to accommodate a group of good young players that's a big chunk of a "proper rebuild"?

And no it's nothing like other old sides. Geelong aren't looking at speculative picks who play a few games and get dropped and thinking they're going to be stars. We're not like Richmond fans going all in on Noah Cumberland or Tyler Sonsie who struggle to get a game as among their best young players.

 

[STPer18]

But what classifies as a proper rebuild? Do you not think Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn are talented young players? Or Clark and O'Sullivan who were pick 8 and 11 the last 2 drafts? Surely they would all go top 15 if their respective drafts were redone.

Surely if the point of a proper rebuild is to accommodate a group of good young players that's a big chunk of a "proper rebuild"?

And no it's nothing like other old sides. Geelong aren't looking at speculative picks who play a few games and get dropped and thinking they're going to be stars. We're not like Richmond fans going all in on Noah Cumberland or Tyler Sonsie who struggle to get a game as among their best young players.

Redoing the 2020 draft, don't think it's far-fetched to say Holmes would jump into the top 5, Henry and Bruhn top 10 on exposed form.

 

[STPer18]

Redoing the 2020 draft, don't think it's far-fetched to say Holmes would jump into the top 5, Henry and Bruhn top 10 on exposed form.

View attachment 1917582

Actually some journos already done one, drop Perkins out for Bruhn and done!

 

[Joao]

I guess what we're saying is not that this side is about to turn around and win a flag and that Jhye Clark is the next Patrick Dangerfield. What we're saying is that we have a tonne of kids. More kids will not make this team better. Us possibly falling in a hole does not change that.

You can bump this thread in three years if we're bottom 4 and drafting more will still have been the wrong answer.

Problem with that is - in the 21st century at least - Geelong's best players are future hall-of-famers and potential legends. You don't have to replace those players to the same level to be a good or premiership level team.

IE not to make this about your team but just to prove the point, Fremantle don't currently have any players on their list who will be the next Matthew Scarlett, G. Ablett Jnr, Tom Hawkins etc. Doesn't mean Freo can't become a premiership level team with their current list, but the bar for the 'replacement test' at Geelong is set far higher than most other clubs.

I'm not going to keep arguing because its' pointless. You're not going to change your minds.

I'll also disagree with you on the Freo point - if we don't have at least a couple of players that get at least near those levels, we won't win a flag.

But what classifies as a proper rebuild? Do you not think Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn are talented young players? Or Clark and O'Sullivan who were pick 8 and 11 the last 2 drafts? Surely they would all go top 15 if their respective drafts were redone.

Surely if the point of a proper rebuild is to accommodate a group of good young players that's a big chunk of a "proper rebuild"?

And no it's nothing like other old sides. Geelong aren't looking at speculative picks who play a few games and get dropped and thinking they're going to be stars. We're not like Richmond fans going all in on Noah Cumberland or Tyler Sonsie who struggle to get a game as among their best young players.

Well this whole thing started when I said you shouldn't bother chasing a middle aged A-grade mid (if you could even find one). So if I were a geelong fan, I wouldn't want us doing that.

Back in all the talent you've drafted recently and keep adding to it. That's a proper rebuild. You don't have to bottom out (if you're senior players are good enough) but don't waste picks or salary on players in the mid range or older age groups.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

But what classifies as a proper rebuild? Do you not think Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn are talented young players? Or Clark and O'Sullivan who were pick 8 and 11 the last 2 drafts? Surely they would all go top 15 if their respective drafts were redone.

Surely if the point of a proper rebuild is to accommodate a group of good young players that's a big chunk of a "proper rebuild"?

And no it's nothing like other old sides. Geelong aren't looking at speculative picks who play a few games and get dropped and thinking they're going to be stars. We're not like Richmond fans going all in on Noah Cumberland or Tyler Sonsie who struggle to get a game as among their best young players.

There is no proper rebuild, and if you have to do it, you've grossly mismanaged your list.

What Geelong is doing now is what clubs are supposed to do. Find a way to get a high draft pick yourselves (Clark) find some young talent that wants to come your way (Bruhn, Bowes, Henry) and add that to the guys you've already picked up like Holmes, SDK, Stengle, Knevitt etc.

Always helps when you can have a so called disaster year (which at Geelong means finishing mid-table) and pick up an O'Sullivan for your troubles.

And just like that, you've got a solid group of talented kids coming through together without having to f**k your club culture up, or lose your supporters through being non-competitive.

9 picks in the top 25 over a 4 year period without bottoming out is unheard of. Not only have we not bottomed out, we've won a flag, and been in another GF in the process.

Even if we where going through a 'traditional rebuild', we'd still only be maybe another player or two closer to what we've got now, and we wouldn't have a premiership either.

Every chance guys like Bowes, Henry, & Bruhn say "no thanks" if we're non competitive, too. In that scenario, we don't get Clark either.

I understand why opposition supporters hate it. I would too in their shoes...but if you where to pick a time to jump on board the 'Cats have no good youth' bandwagon, it's probably the worst time you could have done it since 2006.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Always helps when you can have a so called disaster year (which at Geelong means finishing mid-table) and pick up an O'Sullivan for your troubles.

I prefer premiership years where we pick up Clark for our troubles

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I prefer premiership years where we pick up Clark for our troubles

Or a GF year where we pick up Holmes.

To be fair, old mate in here had his club finish bottom 4 and pick up Adam Cerra, so you can understand his distaste for what we're doing.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Or a GF year where we pick up Holmes.

To be fair, old mate in here had his club finish bottom 4 and pick up Adam Cerra, so you can understand his distaste for what we're doing.

Well I think they ended up with Amiss in the end so it ain't all bad, but a player they wanted at the draft definitely left because he didn't align to their timeline for being competitive. As would some of ours, which I feel deep down is the outcome many non-cats fans want

 

[VinnieB]

But what classifies as a proper rebuild? Do you not think Holmes, SDK, O Henry and Bruhn are talented young players? Or Clark and O'Sullivan who were pick 8 and 11 the last 2 drafts? Surely they would all go top 15 if their respective drafts were redone.

Surely if the point of a proper rebuild is to accommodate a group of good young players that's a big chunk of a "proper rebuild"?

And no it's nothing like other old sides. Geelong aren't looking at speculative picks who play a few games and get dropped and thinking they're going to be stars. We're not like Richmond fans going all in on Noah Cumberland or Tyler Sonsie who struggle to get a game as among their best young players.

You stole Henry and Bruhn.
Hopefully we can steal a kid back from Geelong end of this season…..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You stole Henry and Bruhn.
Hopefully we can steal a kid back from Geelong end of this season…..

I wish you good fortune in the wars to come

 

[STPer18]

You stole Henry and Bruhn.
Hopefully we can steal a kid back from Geelong end of this season…..

Hey, you guys poached Kreuger from us first. Henry was the even-upperer.

 

[citizen-erased]

Actually some journos already done one, drop Perkins out for Bruhn and done!

Sam berry ahead of bruhn if anyone is knocking Perkins out.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Sam berry ahead of bruhn if anyone is knocking Perkins out.

The guy who played mostly SANFL last year? Or is there another Sam Berry?

To be honest after the top 3 who are streets ahead of the rest not many have shown a lot. You can throw a blanket over the next 15 and any could break out this year to move to the top end of that group. Bruhn would be in that group who should at least be solid AFL players but it's hard to say whether they'll be better than that.

 

[Catastrophe!]

I'm not comparing you to other Geelong teams, I'm making the observation that the stuff you are saying sounds eerily similar to literally every old side as their champions started to phase out. I've lived it and watched a handful of other fans do the same.

Feel free to bump the thread in a few years to rub my face in it if I am wrong (and you win a flag or even make a GF), but I'm convinced the odds aren't with you unless you do a proper rebuild.

Lol at questioning our young talent. We have these players 26 and under all first and second round picks:

Jhye Clark - Pick 8
Jack Bowes - Pick 10
Connor O'Sullivan - Pick 11
Tanner Bruhn - Pick 12
Ollie Henry - Pick 17
SDK - Pick 19
Max Holmes - Pick 20
Toby Conway - Pick 24
Mitch Knevitt - Pick 25
Brandan Parfitt - Pick 26
Mitch Edwards - Pick 32
James Willis - Pick 32
Shannon Neale - Pick 33
Shaun Mannagh - Pick 36

+

Gryan Miers - Pick 57
Ollie Dempsey - Rookie Pick 15
Jack Henry - Rookie Pick 16
Zach Guthrie - Rookie Pick 33
Oisin Mullin - Cat B rookie
Tyson Stengle - SSP

We've already started the rebuild, genius. It's not like we're bereft of players and we're going to start again. We have no assets to trade, so we'll just do as we've always done, and rebuild on the run and see what happens. Already talk that we're heavily into Bailey Smith. Not sure what more you want from a side who won the flag with the oldest list in the comp not 2 years ago, but somehow still has continued drafting talent at the same time. I guess we could just delist all our old players and tank for a few seasons, but that doesn't exactly attract talent now, does it?

I think I'll leave it to the brains and the culture that have netted us 4 flags, 6 grand finals, 15 finals finishes and brought Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield to the club. Now toddle back off to your own board where you can discuss alllll your flags and success...oh wait...

 

[Footy Smarts]

this whole thing started when I said you shouldn't bother chasing a middle aged A-grade mid (if you could even find one). So if I were a geelong fan, I wouldn't want us doing that.

Back in all the talent you've drafted recently and keep adding to it. That's a proper rebuild. You don't have to bottom out (if you're senior players are good enough) but don't waste picks or salary on players in the mid range or older age groups.

I don't think we especially need to target a midfielder. A key forward is probably a bigger priority with this likely being Hawkins last year. But if a 25-26 year old A-grader wanted to come to Geelong at the right price we'd be insane not to get them.

Really for any team not to want a middle aged A-grader their under 26s or so would have to be absolutely dire. And ours clearly aren't. Of course you've got to be careful not to overpay and make sure you don't unbalance your list but if McCluggage or someone similar wanted to come to Geelong it would be an absolute no brainer to do the deal.

 

[Joao]

I don't think we especially need to target a midfielder. A key forward is probably a bigger priority with this likely being Hawkins last year. But if a 25-26 year old A-grader wanted to come to Geelong at the right price we'd be insane not to get them.

Really for any team not to want a middle aged A-grader their under 26s or so would have to be absolutely dire. And ours clearly aren't. Of course you've got to be careful not to overpay and make sure you don't unbalance your list but if McCluggage or someone similar wanted to come to Geelong it would be an absolute no brainer to do the deal.

As a FA, sure, why not. To trade? I wouldn't unless it is a KPF. Even then, unless you get some serious midfield improvement, it probably still not enough.

The biggest problem is finding those players. There is nobody good this year in the FA market and even looking at the pre-agents, there is nobody of sufficient quality that actually looks gettable next year either. The long contract trend is going to make that harder in general I think.

 

[The Nostradamus]

15 free agents at years end
Has to be a record

 

[Footy Smarts]

As a FA, sure, why not. To trade? I wouldn't unless it is a KPF. Even then, unless you get some serious midfield improvement, it probably still not enough.

The biggest problem is finding those players. There is nobody good this year in the FA market and even looking at the pre-agents, there is nobody of sufficient quality that actually looks gettable next year either. The long contract trend is going to make that harder in general I think.

What I don't understand is why this discussion is specifically about Geelong?

You say "unless you get some serious midfield improvement" as though that's unlikely. If I look at the likes of Erasmus, Young and Johnson at Freo I think yeah they're going to get significant midfield improvement because they've got some highly talented young players who will be better at 25 than at 20 years old.

But the exact same argument applies to Holmes, Clark and Bruhn. The chance they don't become much better players in 3-4 years than they are now is incredibly slim. It just seems like because Geelong have had success that these guys aren't of the same quality when in reality they, especially Clark and Holmes, look super talents.

 

[Joao]

What I don't understand is why this discussion is specifically about Geelong?

You say "unless you get some serious midfield improvement" as though that's unlikely. If I look at the likes of Erasmus, Young and Johnson at Freo I think yeah they're going to get significant midfield improvement because they've got some highly talented young players who will be better at 25 than at 20 years old.

But the exact same argument applies to Holmes, Clark and Bruhn. The chance they don't become much better players in 3-4 years than they are now is incredibly slim. It just seems like because Geelong have had success that these guys aren't of the same quality when in reality they, especially Clark and Holmes, look super talents.

Because its in the Geelong list management thread?