Society/Culture Has society become better or worse over the past 30 years?

[TheEscapeClub]

Nice of Colesworth to send a couple of shills here to defend the indefensible lol. "Supplying your own bags and labour at the checkout so that we can employ less people is akshually good for everyone" lmao.

Bags are one of the biggest rorts ever.

We'll be good corporate and environmental citizens by doing away with the plastic bags (I can't remember if it was government forced or if they did it off their own bat) and something that was free forever will now cost you a minimum of 15c each. I'm hopeless, I'm forever forgetting them and buying more, or I buy more than I intended to so now need a bag. With their volumes they must be making a killing on them.

As for being a shill, the store my daughters work at is new and was built to cater more for click and collect. From memory there are 4 full service registers, 5 self serve with conveyor belts, 10 or 12 regular self serves and then the service desk with 3 express checkouts for smokes, 10 items or less etc. They also have a fleet of 6 refrigerated trucks (same size as the ones people can hire to move and drive on a car licence) for their deliveries.

The registers with the belts in them don't have inbuilt scales like the smaller ones, so it doesn't register if you scan or don't scan something and put it the packing area or not. Anecdotally my girls say theft is off the charts and the people are brazen when doing it. They did a stocktake recently, I'd love to know the results of it. Staff have been told to just let them walk and to not say anything.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

Worse, generally.

We have many, many quality of life improvements. That comes with the constantly improving technology and global connectivity, access to knowledge etc. But society itself has had some major regressions, IMO, or at least what we're exposed to on toxic social media like TikTok etc. The inmates run the asylum way too often. And then the political fracturing that has led to the rise of both the far right and far left, each terrible in their own right. And heaven forbid if you're just a moderate or centre right/left, you'll get bashed by both extreme sides and labelled a fence sitter. Modern tribal warfare, really.

The whole "that's gay" thing is interesting. No doubt it would have had unpleasant origins, but as a kid I seem to remember it taking on a life of it's own. We had gay friends and family in our circles, of which I can't remember anyone having any issue with, but saying something was gay or was "being gay" (eg "sorry I can't text, my phone is being gay"), for example, seemed to take on its own meaning. Not saying it's right, but I definitely remember there being a disconnect between the usage and actually being intentionally homophobic. I think South Park had an episode that touched on it.

Agree with everything you've said.

WRT the "that's gay" thing, I feel the same way as you. In that context I never really connected the word gay with homosexuality, I just thought of it as a phrase that was commonly used. That said I've long since removed it from my lexicon as I do understand that the language has derogatory implications and that's enough for me not to use it

I'd imagine that there might be a fair few in this forum that'd happily use it though, given how many twisted themselves in knots to justify that 'small dick energy' wasn't body shaming. Although that would require people to be morally and logically consistent, which is rare in these parts

 

[JyeDye]

Nice of Colesworth to send a couple of shills here to defend the indefensible lol. "Supplying your own bags and labour at the checkout so that we can employ less people is akshually good for everyone" lmao.

Love when the self-serve checkout also asks me to donate. How about you donate the money you've saved from me doing the entire ******* job here.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Love when the self-serve checkout also asks me to donate. How about you donate the money you've saved from me doing the entire ******* job here.

Yep, I can't smash that "no" on the screen fast enough lol

 

[Boston tiger]

Ahh the good old days

“The old grocery system involved customers calling or bringing their grocers lists of what they needed, then stores would bag items for pick-up or delivery. But Clarence Saunders changed the game when he opened the first self-service grocery store, the Piggly Wiggly, in 1916 in Memphis, Tennessee. By the '50s and '60s, shoppers became accustomed to strolling through aisles and hand-selecting items themselves.”

 

[Partridge]

Worse for sure, sadly.
I'm not sure why but when look at politicians these days it pathetic the type of options we have.
Media is worse, Football and cricket commentators are worse.
Movies worse.
It is hard to tell if general society is worse or about the same.

Overall, to me it's infinitely better. Not even close.

If you only take two aspects, crime and poverty, they're enough on their own. Poverty is less then 10% worldwide for the first time in history. Crime has been dropping for centuries and despite a U-turn in the 1960s for three decades has dropped again. The affluence of Asia and cheap good means something else - burglaries - has plummeted as well. You don't need to steal things when everyone can afford what were once "luxuries".

Agree completely however about the media, and footy and cricket commentators have gone so far backwards it's embarrassing and beyond salvaging. Music is also horrendous compared to thirty years ago (which was also far inferior to what came 20-30 years before it).

But overall, way, way, way better.

 

[footyfan1978]

Overall, to me it's infinitely better. Not even close.

If you only take two aspects, crime and poverty, they're enough on their own. Poverty is less then 10% worldwide for the first time in history. Crime has been dropping for centuries and despite a U-turn in the 1960s for three decades has dropped again. The affluence of Asia and cheap good means something else - burglaries - has plummeted as well. You don't need to steal things when everyone can afford what were once "luxuries".

Agree completely however about the media, and footy and cricket commentators have gone so far backwards it's embarrassing and beyond salvaging. Music is also horrendous compared to thirty years ago (which was also far inferior to what came 20-30 years before it).

But overall, way, way, way better.

I'm not sure about crime less. I do not know any figures but probably the form of crime types has changed to some degree.
Cyber crime is out of control. This is people with absolutely not conscious trying to rip other people off.
It is terrible how vigilant I have to be with email and phone calls and texts. I basically do not even answer my phone if it ringing and the number is not one of my contacts. Text messages a few a day of some parcel I never ordered and trying to lure you into clicking on anything. Mass shootings and even the type of shootings in America of in schools etc. I would take a lot of convincing it better.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If that wasn't your point, this is your opportunity to clearly state your intentions. I'm all ears.

Multi-billion dollar businesses have to balance the books too. And yes, they cry poor whenever payrises are brought up. I work for a multinational that raked in record profits during covid, and they still cry poor. My experience with small business was even worse because your salary increase means the owner has to buy a lexus instead of a porsche.

Spare me the crocodile tears. Paying $2-5 more per hour means sfa to most small businesses, especially in the post-covid economy.

As someone with close relatives who run a micro-business in a regional area, you're wrong.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle? I'm sure there's data somewhere that would give the mean, median and SD for small/micro businesses.

'Pay staff more' is a nice idea in theory, but in reality not every organisation can just magic up the money,

Soz for the late reply, but this is capitalism at work, a double-edged sword, competitive and survival of the fittest.

Competition for business in a free market.

Workers leaving employment for better wages / salary / conditions etc. is not new.

Every small business knows the risks and rewards, those who cannot afford to pay their workers more may eventually lose their workers to the business in the next suburb, and possibly their business collapses because they can't compete.

Owen mentioned about hospitality and wage theft, and the fact that us the customers take those workers for granted (and worse), there are laws in place that are intended to protect said workers from wage theft, obviously don't need to mention there are ways around these laws for these businesses. < That's not in the spirit.

Even then, there'll be hospitality businesses that offer better wages and conditions, and there'll be competition for those spots, just like any other business.

 

[peetoo]

Do they employ people to monitor the cameras they have put on, or is it ai creating alerts.

If so I’m wasting my time giving the camera a quick smile and hello each time

 

[owen87]

Do they employ people to monitor the cameras they have put on, or is it ai creating alerts.

If so I’m wasting my time giving the camera a quick smile and hello each time

I believe they employ people to sit in a dank little room surrounded by monitors showing faces of self checkout shoppers. Your smile is the highlight of their day.

 

[Partridge]

I'm not sure about crime less. I do not know any figures but probably the form of crime types has changed to some degree.
Cyber crime is out of control. This is people with absolutely not conscious trying to rip other people off.
It is terrible how vigilant I have to be with email and phone calls and texts. I basically do not even answer my phone if it ringing and the number is not one of my contacts. Text messages a few a day of some parcel I never ordered and trying to lure you into clicking on anything. Mass shootings and even the type of shootings in America of in schools etc. I would take a lot of convincing it better.

I am. The murder rate is Europe is 35 times lower than it was 500 years ago.

The amount of wars, number of wars, people killed in wars, all down. Extend for just about every other type of crime as well.

 

[Seeds]

I'm not sure about crime less. I do not know any figures but probably the form of crime types has changed to some degree.
Cyber crime is out of control. This is people with absolutely not conscious trying to rip other people off.
It is terrible how vigilant I have to be with email and phone calls and texts. I basically do not even answer my phone if it ringing and the number is not one of my contacts. Text messages a few a day of some parcel I never ordered and trying to lure you into clicking on anything. Mass shootings and even the type of shootings in America of in schools etc. I would take a lot of convincing it better.

Well it was hard to do cyber crime when there was no internet. but robberies have definately plummented. back in the nineties everyone knew some teenage hooligan who was breaking into cars and even homes. we used to put those ridiculous wheel locks on our cars all the time cos car break ins was such a major problem.

murder rates, i.e. the biggie in crime, have steadily fallen over the past thirty years and is now 60 per cent lower then it was in 1990

table: australian homocide rates.

 

[PJays]

The book Factfulness gives a data- based account of life's improvements despite the appearance of doom and gloom

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

www.amazon.com.au

I'd say humanity peaked around 2005-2010 in Western countries.

Life expectancy, maternal health, general standard of living etc had gotten quite good, housing was affordable, the internet had created efficiencies for work and life. Social media was in infancy and still generally used for positive purposes like, actual social purposes. General equality under the law had been reached for LGB people, serious racism was getting to low levels. Social justice was focused on alleviating poverty (make poverty history movement, etc)

But we hadn't reached the point where:

- Social media became polarised with big tech trying to shape the narrative and silence dissent.

- Increased tension between working class people and the elites, as elites worry about luxury beliefs and luxury moral issues while the working class is struggling away. The left is no longer primarily about class, it's primarily about racism and climate change and issues that don't directly impact the livelihood of everyday people (of course it doesn't mean those issues should be ignored), the right doesn't seem to have answers either, as society becomes more fractured.

- Cancel culture and society becoming fragile and easily offended. Universities routinely cancelling lectures by genuine public figures or academics

- The rainbow agenda being pushed into our faces everywhere we go and the T overshadowing the LGB

- The youth mental health epidemic, especially with girls (powered by smart phones and social media)

- Gender ideology

- The obsession towards judging history by today's standards. Bill Maher's video on "presentism" a good exposition of this. "A unified theory of wokeness" on Youtube

- Social justice became about being an "ally", which basically means saying the right things and more importantly, not saying the wrong thing. And sharing the right things on social media. But no longer about actual self sacrifice like donating cash to charities or starving yourself for 40 hours to raise money. (World vision 40 hour famine)

- Housing less affordable and home ownership rates declining accordingly

Having said that, technology continues to improve. Robo vacs, car safety features, faster internet being good examples. The covid era shift to flexible working is a great change.

So maybe I'd rephrase that, society peaked around 2005-2010 and subsequently has had some significant negative changes but some continued positives

 

[Seeds]

The book Factfulness gives a data- based account of life's improvements despite the appearance of doom and gloom

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

www.amazon.com.au

I'd say humanity peaked around 2005-2010 in Western countries.

Life expectancy, maternal health, general standard of living etc had gotten quite good, housing was affordable, the internet had created efficiencies for work and life. Social media was in infancy and still generally used for positive purposes like, actual social purposes. General equality under the law had been reached for LGB people, serious racism was getting to low levels. Social justice was focused on alleviating poverty (make poverty history movement, etc)

But we hadn't reached the point where:

- Social media became polarised with big tech trying to shape the narrative and silence dissent.

- Increased tension between working class people and the elites, as elites worry about luxury beliefs and luxury moral issues while the working class is struggling away. The left is no longer primarily about class, it's primarily about racism and climate change and issues that don't directly impact the livelihood of everyday people (of course it doesn't mean those issues should be ignored), the right doesn't seem to have answers either, as society becomes more fractured.

- Cancel culture and society becoming fragile and easily offended. Universities routinely cancelling lectures by genuine public figures or academics

- The rainbow agenda being pushed into our faces everywhere we go and the T overshadowing the LGB

- The youth mental health epidemic, especially with girls (powered by smart phones and social media)

- Gender ideology

- The obsession towards judging history by today's standards. Bill Maher's video on "presentism" a good exposition of this. "A unified theory of wokeness" on Youtube

- Social justice became about being an "ally", which basically means saying the right things and more importantly, not saying the wrong thing. And sharing the right things on social media. But no longer about actual self sacrifice like donating cash to charities or starving yourself for 40 hours to raise money. (World vision 40 hour famine)

- Housing less affordable and home ownership rates declining accordingly

Having said that, technology continues to improve. Robo vacs, car safety features, faster internet being good examples. The covid era shift to flexible working is a great change.

So maybe I'd rephrase that, society peaked around 2005-2010 and subsequently has had some significant negative changes but some continued positives

good post and you may be right on the peak. A bit unclear yet as to whether we are now moving into a downward period but there are a lot of indicators suggesting this may be so.

 

[JackFlash]

Way worse. It's not a case of being better than 30 years ago, but it sure was simpler. But I suppose that in the course of complaining about the state of the economy, politics, insane green policies, Climate alarmists, airbus Albo and the current interest rate disaster we should take a moment to notice that we're living in the glorious golden age of civilisation and that life is improving for the species at a dizzying rate not even hippies could have hoped for in their smelliest dreams. Still, people complain and the new purtianism is alive and well in the 21st century. What do people want? Well, what everybody wants is to have the thing that most people don't have. The fact that most people don't have it is the reason they want it. So by nature it is impossible for everyone to have it, because the moment everyone has it, the reason for wanting it vanishes. I much preferred the 80s and 90s and now i've lost it... I don't expect anything will come close ever again.

 

[Pie eyed]

Worse.
Technology has kept too many idiots alive to inflict their stupidity on the rest of us.

Hence the rise of virii......

 

[royale with cheese]

Better: Being able to watch footy on my phone almost anywhere in the world, ie after my sons game two weeks ago I let him watch the Lions vs Dockers game on my phone as we drove home. Fremantle may have lost, but I would loved to have the privilege of seeing them lose driving back from footy when I was a kid in the 90s

Worse: Fremantle is still as bad as they were in the 90s

 

[Purple7x08_24]

The book Factfulness gives a data- based account of life's improvements despite the appearance of doom and gloom

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About... by Rosling, Hans

www.amazon.com.au

I'd say humanity peaked around 2005-2010 in Western countries.

Life expectancy, maternal health, general standard of living etc had gotten quite good, housing was affordable, the internet had created efficiencies for work and life. Social media was in infancy and still generally used for positive purposes like, actual social purposes. General equality under the law had been reached for LGB people, serious racism was getting to low levels. Social justice was focused on alleviating poverty (make poverty history movement, etc)

But we hadn't reached the point where:

- Social media became polarised with big tech trying to shape the narrative and silence dissent.

- Increased tension between working class people and the elites, as elites worry about luxury beliefs and luxury moral issues while the working class is struggling away. The left is no longer primarily about class, it's primarily about racism and climate change and issues that don't directly impact the livelihood of everyday people (of course it doesn't mean those issues should be ignored), the right doesn't seem to have answers either, as society becomes more fractured.

- Cancel culture and society becoming fragile and easily offended. Universities routinely cancelling lectures by genuine public figures or academics

- The rainbow agenda being pushed into our faces everywhere we go and the T overshadowing the LGB

- The youth mental health epidemic, especially with girls (powered by smart phones and social media)

- Gender ideology

- The obsession towards judging history by today's standards. Bill Maher's video on "presentism" a good exposition of this. "A unified theory of wokeness" on Youtube

- Social justice became about being an "ally", which basically means saying the right things and more importantly, not saying the wrong thing. And sharing the right things on social media. But no longer about actual self sacrifice like donating cash to charities or starving yourself for 40 hours to raise money. (World vision 40 hour famine)

- Housing less affordable and home ownership rates declining accordingly

Having said that, technology continues to improve. Robo vacs, car safety features, faster internet being good examples. The covid era shift to flexible working is a great change.

So maybe I'd rephrase that, society peaked around 2005-2010 and subsequently has had some significant negative changes but some continued positives

Pretty much what I've been thinking recently.

AI will start taking over admin and corporate jobs when one system can do the role of 100s of humans.

Housing is a huge issue RN and at some stage in the next 5 years I expect companies to gain more traction in building quick build pre-fab homes. This will at some stage put a lot of trades people at risk.

Big Business will do whatever they can to maximize profits and I wonder how our governments are going to ensure people are employed.

 

[demondavey]

Pros - Someone invented Big Footy

 

[demondavey]

Worse - The right to have an opinion and share it even though it’s blatantly incorrect has never been more prevalent. Having rights is important, but it shouldn’t be used as a justification for being obnoxious and belligerent.

Less respect for authority. A question everything mentality.

Fake news. Fake ‘facts’. Disingenuous news outlets and forms of ‘news’ through blogs, personal opinion or minimal fact based reporting. Thanks to Rupert Murdoch. Stirring up the masses and inciting hate.

Social media. I learnt that FB was old news recently. The varying mediums and platforms are overwhelming and unnecessary. Everyone is on it (I hate it, don’t use it at all). It’s corroded socialisation which is ironic given its name.

Health and fitness. Obesity. Laziness and a lack of desire to do the basics. Everything is at your fingertips. We can have something delivered in a day yet we are so impatient. Road rage. Pushiness and a lack of putting others first.

House prices and wage growth. The real estate market is in a huge quagmire. Politicians have no answer. They never really will. But they should.

The climate. Nature. There’s not much respect anymore. Human beings will never curb global warming. They’re too greedy.

Better - Medicine. Acceptance of minorities (to an extent)

That’s literally it. We are worse off and will continue to be until the boomers are dead and the kids in primary school are grown up and changing things in politics.

Oh, Melbourne finally won a flag.

 

[the_interloper]

Pros - Someone invented Big Footy

Chief reckons he invented the internet

 

[Chief]

Chief reckons he invented the internet

And climate change.

 

[demondavey]

And climate change.

Course ya did, course ya did.

Reckon you could change the climate soon though? 4 30+ days this week is a bit much. My garden needs a good drink as well.

 

[Seeds]

Worse - The right to have an opinion and share it even though it’s blatantly incorrect has never been more prevalent. Having rights is important, but it shouldn’t be used as a justification for being obnoxious and belligerent.

Less respect for authority. A question everything mentality.

Fake news. Fake ‘facts’. Disingenuous news outlets and forms of ‘news’ through blogs, personal opinion or minimal fact based reporting. Thanks to Rupert Murdoch. Stirring up the masses and inciting hate.

Social media. I learnt that FB was old news recently. The varying mediums and platforms are overwhelming and unnecessary. Everyone is on it (I hate it, don’t use it at all). It’s corroded socialisation which is ironic given its name.

Health and fitness. Obesity. Laziness and a lack of desire to do the basics. Everything is at your fingertips. We can have something delivered in a day yet we are so impatient. Road rage. Pushiness and a lack of putting others first.

House prices and wage growth. The real estate market is in a huge quagmire. Politicians have no answer. They never really will. But they should.

The climate. Nature. There’s not much respect anymore. Human beings will never curb global warming. They’re too greedy.

Better - Medicine. Acceptance of minorities (to an extent)

That’s literally it. We are worse off and will continue to be until the boomers are dead and the kids in primary school are grown up and changing things in politics.

Oh, Melbourne finally won a flag.

How do you say there is not much respect for nature and climate anymore? Surely theres more respect for nature and climate now then there ever has been? You would have to go back to hunter gatherer societies to find a time where there was more respect for nature.

 

[demondavey]

How do you say there is not much respect for nature and climate anymore? Surely theres more respect for nature and climate now then there ever has been? You would have to go back to hunter gatherer societies to find a time where there was more respect for nature.

Respect in the sense of global warming. We aren’t curbing or stopping the rise of it at all.