Society/Culture The seemingly growing anti 'western' sentiment in 'western' societies.

[Carringbush2010]

I get the impression, certainly on here the SRP board, that there is a sentiment of self loathing being part of a liberal western democratic society.

Do you share this sentiment? Do you lament just by being?

If so, why?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of 'we are aholes' on these boards about pick any social / political topic.

There's also been plenty of examples of cheerleading / preferring / barracking for social / non liberal / anti *capitalism. < (*mistaken for profit gouging greed)

If you are someone who laments so called 'westernism', please share your view as to why, so we can debate / discuss them.

On the other hand are you a fervent liberal / capitalist, and you get your nose out of joint about political correctness that does not effect you at all (or are at least accused of this emotion, let's face it no one is going to admit this)?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of cloud yelling about whatever irrational that has zero tangible effect on anyone.

Do you believe there is an anti liberal sentiment in western societies? If so, why?

This should be a very interesting thread.

 

[awaremind]

I get the impression, certainly on here the SRP board, that there is a sentiment of self loathing being part of a liberal western democratic society.

Do you share this sentiment? Do you lament just by being?

If so, why?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of 'we are aholes' on these boards about pick any social / political topic.

There's also been plenty of examples of cheerleading / preferring / barracking for social / non liberal / anti *capitalism. < (*mistaken for profit gouging greed)

If you are someone who laments so called 'westernism', please share your view as to why, so we can debate / discuss them.

On the other hand are you a fervent liberal / capitalist, and you get your nose out of joint about political correctness that does not effect you at all (or are at least accused of this emotion, let's face it no one is going to admit this)?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of cloud yelling about whatever irrational that has zero tangible effect on anyone.

Do you believe there is an anti liberal sentiment in western societies? If so, why?

This should be a very interesting thread.

While you must be realistic about the need to grow strong and fight to survive , particularly historically, I think, particularly as we invite more people from all parts of the world on we get more perspective of how the actions of our fathers and forefathers have basically set up a world that is full of inter generational trauma and enduring hatred.

This trauma affects us all but obviously those who were displaced or narrowly escaped the various genocides that were perpetrated by colonial empire style powers mostly 1400-present, intensifying in the 20th century. The hurt carries on in cycles down the generations until someone works hard enough to change that path.

When you realise that your wealthy nation was founded on the destruction of cultures and the evil mindset that you have to have to not see all humans as equally important , but see your own personal gain as the ultimate value. Ultimately that’s the value that has been most rewarded. As an example even now when Conor Mcgregors shameful behavior is brought up , his fans will defend him by saying- he’s richer than you will ever be , look how rich he is - focusing on his wealth not his integrity.

The internet has brought many more voices and such a freedom of information that allows us to really understand what our foreign policy really does, whereas in the days of newspapers and tv / radio the broadcast info was largely managed to not embarrass or reveal too much to the public. Not with camera phones and the internet, nothing can be kept 100% secret

 

[ferball]

 

[Engimal v3]

I think a lot of people perceive an acknowledgement of events as an attack because of fragile ego.

I used to feel the same way - thinking that people talking about Australia's treatment of migrants or our colonial history were trying to thrust white guilt upon me for events that I had no part in. Then I realised that no one was ever asking me to apologise, or pay reparations, or whatever conservative bullshit I'd eaten up; they simply wanted to me understand cause and effect.

I don't have guilt about being a white fella in a western country - my ancestors were convicts and didn't ask to be here, but I now understand that Australia's brutal colonialist past have caused problems that still permeate through Indigenous society today.

So while I see you don't want to "pretend this sentiment doesn't exist", I challenge you to ask yourself on whether what you perceived as attacks on western society is simply asking you to understand why ****ed up things the West has done might have resulted in some of the ****ed up things we see today.

 

[Cap]

I get the impression, certainly on here the SRP board, that there is a sentiment of self loathing being part of a liberal western democratic society.

Do you share this sentiment? Do you lament just by being?

If so, why?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of 'we are aholes' on these boards about pick any social / political topic.

There's also been plenty of examples of cheerleading / preferring / barracking for social / non liberal / anti *capitalism. < (*mistaken for profit gouging greed)

If you are someone who laments so called 'westernism', please share your view as to why, so we can debate / discuss them.

On the other hand are you a fervent liberal / capitalist, and you get your nose out of joint about political correctness that does not effect you at all (or are at least accused of this emotion, let's face it no one is going to admit this)?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of cloud yelling about whatever irrational that has zero tangible effect on anyone.

Do you believe there is an anti liberal sentiment in western societies? If so, why?

This should be a very interesting thread.

Talk of self loathing seems to come from the same people who complain about woke.


I've bolded the bits I'd love for you to provide the examples so I can understand what you are talking about.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I challenge you to ask yourself on whether what you perceived as attacks on western society is simply asking you to understand why

I never perceived anti western sentiment as attacks, just anti western sentiment.

You can't go past a topic on the SRP board where you can find self lament on being a member of Australian society.

I also never stated that I don't understand why, of course I can see reasons why, I don't see those reasons as valid to have such self loathing or such loathing of the society one lives in.

For those who do, I challenge to ask if you can find a better society, our western society is far far from perfect, none the less there ain't much if any better that I can see.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Talk of self loathing seems to come from the same people who complain about woke.


I've bolded the bits I'd love for you to provide the examples so I can understand what you are talking about.

Obviously I'm not talking about rwnjs that complain about political correctness. Plenty of topics that have discussion on these boards that you already know about and can talk about, unless you've been living under a rock.

You don't have to look far to find examples on the SRP board alone of cryers crying about elements of western society.

If you're gonna suggest they don't exist and I'm just goin off the 'vibe' then I'd say you're being disingenuous.

 

[Cap]

Obviously I'm not talking about rwnjs that complain about political correctness. Plenty of topics that have discussion on these boards that you already know about and can talk about, unless you've been living under a rock.

You don't have to look far to find examples on the SRP board alone of cryers crying about elements of western society.

If you're gonna suggest they don't exist and I'm just goin of the 'vibe' then I'd say you're being disingenuous.

I don't think people self loathe, acknowledging things aren't perfect is not self loathing.

Trying to improve the perceived 'bad parts' isn't self loathing either.

Becoming more enlightened should be seen as part of development of any society, rather than being demonised.

 

[Engimal v3]

I never perceived anti western sentiment as attacks, just anti western sentiment.

You can't go past a topic on the SRP board where you can find self lament on being a member of Australian society.

I also never stated that I don't understand why, of course I can see reasons why, I don't see those reasons as valid to have such self loathing or such loathing of the society one lives in.

For those who do, I challenge to ask if you can find a better society, our western society is far far from perfect, none the less there ain't much if any better that I can see.

I can't say I've seen being loathe being westerners on here. Just because you criticise our society doesn't mean you have don't like it.

If you can share an example, maybe that'd help.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don't think people self loathe, acknowledging things aren't perfect is not self loathing.

Trying to improve the perceived 'bad parts' isn't self loathing either.

Becoming more enlightened should be seen as part of development of any society, rather than being demonised.

I can't say I've seen being loathe being westerners on here. Just because you criticise our society doesn't mean you have don't like it.

If you can share an example, maybe that'd help.

There's been examples on the SRP board of literal opposition to capitalism and preferences for social societal models.

One mod has stated more than once a desire to dismantle capitalism. Of course I'm not gonna go back and dig them up..

If you're viewing this as a complaint on my behalf then I apologise for not being clear. It is merely an interest in how one comes to oppose the societal model norms they live in. Seemingly in varying degrees.

 

[Cap]

There's been examples on the SRP board of literal opposition to capitalism and preferences for social societal models.

One mod has stated more than once a desire to dismantle capitalism. Of course I'm not gonna go back and dig them up..

If you're viewing this as a complaint on my behalf then I apologise for not being clear. It is merely an interest in how one comes to oppose the societal model norms they live in. Seemingly in varying degrees.

To be fair on your point and this thread, I do see people who look at the form of capitalism who think they've been behind and want to see changes.

I think we can all see how our Australian form of capitalism has failed people (housing, education, access to healthcare).

Now sure there are probably people out there keen to blow it all up and start again, but you can't honestly sit back and see the disparity in wealth and opportunity is this country and not see why they may hold that view.

It's ultimately everyone's job to make sure the system, preferably benefits all, but at least benefits more people than it doesn't (and as evenly as we can make it)

 

[Richard Pryor]

No society is perfect so there's always something to complain about. I think Western societies tolerate critical introspection so self critique is far more visible than in, say, Iran.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

A reminder that Marxism and industrial socialism are Western.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[barreness]

There's been examples on the SRP board of literal opposition to capitalism and preferences for *social societal models.

One mod has stated more than once a desire to dismantle capitalism. Of course I'm not gonna go back and dig them up..

If you're viewing this as a complaint on my behalf then I apologise for not being clear. It is merely an interest in how one comes to oppose the societal model norms they live in. Seemingly in varying degrees.

Struggle to see how questioning political economic models is self loathing

This thread reads as projection, your idea of yourself as a worthwhile individual that's earnt their position comes from the nationalistic/capitalist/liberal model. If you were to entertain any self reflection of those models faults it could only result in self loathing

I think a lot of people can entertain futures that are different without a catastrophic loss of identity

*socialism? like schools and hospitals and stuff

 

[bzparkes]

Because people would rather froth at the mouth on social media over each others gender/genitals, what sky-fairy they follow(just look at all the pro/anti Jew/Muslim propaganda across social media), 'the patriarchy', etc, instead of asking question and demanding answers, such as:

- Why is there such a major discrepancy between wages and inflation since 1971?

- Why are societal divisions being so heavily antagonized since the campaign to 'Eat the Rich' happened after the GFC?

- Why can governments spend so much on sporting stadiums yet cut children's services?

- Why does the cost of fuel fluctuate 50c-60c in a couple of days on a regular occasion?

- What's being done to combat the cost of property/rentals when there's such a discrepancy between what people earn and how much it is to rent/buy?

- Why do Western countries import so many migrants to combat declining birth-rates instead of incentivizing the existing populations to simply have more children?

- To continue the previous statement, why are people on welfare so heavily incentivized to have more children, yet working couples are punished financially to the point that it's almost not even worth it?



Most of the self-flagellating stuff you see about the West on social media simply serves as a big purple distraction to stop you asking questions as to why in such supposedly affluent societies, why are the lower/middle classes struggling so much?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.”

Western civilisation has brought overwhelmingly positive benefits to the world but many want to concentrate on negative outcomes to the exclusion of everything else.

Certainly there were aspects of ALL of the world’s history, and ALL peoples, that were terrible by today’s standards, but nothing can be done to change them. All we can control is what we do this minute.

“Presentism” or trying to apply 21st century Western values to times, circumstances and attitudes we can’t possibly fully comprehend, and wanting to atone, or make reparations for things done to dead people by dead people is a waste. It doesn’t benefit anyone and I’d argue it’s regressive. How can you put a monetary value on long-held grievances, where does it end? What good does it do? No one feels better, other than some momentary self-regard, forgiveness is seldom offered. If anything the grievances evolve and multiply.

Going forward is all that can be done.

Mankind is imperfect. There will never be Utopia or Nirvana, no matter how hard we wish for it.

 

[Gethelred]

One mod has stated more than once a desire to dismantle capitalism. Of course I'm not gonna go back and dig them up..

 

[Engimal v3]

There's been examples on the SRP board of literal opposition to capitalism and preferences for social societal models.

One mod has stated more than once a desire to dismantle capitalism. Of course I'm not gonna go back and dig them up..

If you're viewing this as a complaint on my behalf then I apologise for not being clear. It is merely an interest in how one comes to oppose the societal model norms they live in. Seemingly in varying degrees.

I guess I don't get why people questioning the way we live is so baffling to you. Do you love every aspect of our society?

 

[Gethelred]

I guess I don't get why people questioning the way we live is so baffling to you. Do you love every aspect of our society?

But surely, you understand that those who misbehave within our society are - of course - in the minority. The majority would NEVER be racist, sexist, homophobic or prejudiced in any systemic way.

Everything's all perfect and shiny. Best time to be alive. Living the dream. No gods or government, only man.

It's just a few bad apples, don't you know?

 

[barreness]

Because people would rather froth at the mouth on social media over each others gender/genitals, what sky-fairy they follow(just look at all the pro/anti Jew/Muslim propaganda across social media), 'the patriarchy', etc, instead of asking question and demanding answers, such as:

- Why is there such a major discrepancy between wages and inflation since 1971?

The vast bulk of worker productivity rises has gone to corporate profits rather than wages, general neoliberalism

- Why are societal divisions being so heavily antagonized since the campaign to 'Eat the Rich' happened after the GFC?

Class consciousness tends to rise as income inequality grows

- Why can governments spend so much on sporting stadiums yet cut children's services?

Corruption and lobbyist influence, do note that you've quoted US stories, the problems of Aus are similar but not the same

- Why does the cost of fuel fluctuate 50c-60c in a couple of days on a regular occasion?

Deregulation

- What's being done to combat the cost of property/rentals when there's such a discrepancy between what people earn and how much it is to rent/buy?

Commodification of the housing, lack of public housing, limited regulations on landlords

- Why do Western countries import so many migrants to combat declining birth-rates instead of incentivizing the existing populations to simply have more children?

You don't have to pay for the early unproductive years for migrants, this combined with an infinite growth model means migrants are the answer for govts of all stripes.

- To continue the previous statement, why are people on welfare so heavily incentivized to have more children, yet working couples are punished financially to the point that it's almost not even worth it?

Working couples are encouraged to have children. Baby bonus, subsidised childcare, free public education to Yr12, family tax benefits etc. Not sure you can do much else bar banning abortion and the like. It's really not that great of an incentive on welfare, more an poor attempt to break poverty cycling through generations. Ironically a raise in the base rate of newstart etc could have the poors with less incentive to have children

I'd say low birth rates for local populations are due to financial malaise as noted above, worsening climatic futures, higher education for women, and contraception. Pro natalism as a cultural force has also lost traction

Most of the self-flagellating stuff you see about the West on social media simply serves as a big purple distraction to stop you asking questions as to why in such supposedly affluent societies, why are the lower/middle classes struggling so much?

Late stage Capitalism. The world has been in zero sum economics and ecological overshoot for quite some time

 

[peetoo]

Quite possibly the biggest example of projecting in bigfooty, and that’s saying something

Also. Read my footnote

 

[sdfc]

The vast bulk of worker productivity rises has gone to corporate profits rather than wages, general neoliberalism

Class consciousness tends to rise as income inequality grows

Corruption and lobbyist influence, do note that you've quoted US stories, the problems of Aus are similar but not the same

Deregulation

Commodification of the housing, lack of public housing, limited regulations on landlords

You don't have to pay for the early unproductive years for migrants, this combined with an infinite growth model means migrants are the answer for govts of all stripes.

Working couples are encouraged to have children. Baby bonus, subsidised childcare, free public education to Yr12, family tax benefits etc. Not sure you can do much else bar banning abortion and the like. It's really not that great of an incentive on welfare, more an poor attempt to break poverty cycling through generations. Ironically a raise in the base rate of newstart etc could have the poors with less incentive to have children

I'd say low birth rates for local populations are due to financial malaise as noted above, worsening climatic futures, higher education for women, and contraception. Pro natalism as a cultural force has also lost traction

Late stage Capitalism. The world has been in zero sum economics and ecological overshoot for quite some time

Late stage capitalism appears to be corporatism.

 

[owen87]

I get the impression, certainly on here the SRP board, that there is a sentiment of self loathing being part of a liberal western democratic society.

Do you share this sentiment? Do you lament just by being?

If so, why?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of 'we are aholes' on these boards about pick any social / political topic.

There's also been plenty of examples of cheerleading / preferring / barracking for social / non liberal / anti *capitalism. < (*mistaken for profit gouging greed)

If you are someone who laments so called 'westernism', please share your view as to why, so we can debate / discuss them.

On the other hand are you a fervent liberal / capitalist, and you get your nose out of joint about political correctness that does not effect you at all (or are at least accused of this emotion, let's face it no one is going to admit this)?

Let's not pretend this sentiment does not exist, there's been plenty of examples of cloud yelling about whatever irrational that has zero tangible effect on anyone.

Do you believe there is an anti liberal sentiment in western societies? If so, why?

This should be a very interesting thread.

People in western countries have seen the negatives and are willing and able to speak up about it?

There's many positive things about western countries, there's also many obviously toxic elements such the growing discrepancies between the haves and have nots (which encompasses a huge number of things in society).

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Don’t entangle western society with capitalism. The western countries with the highest standards of living and personal freedoms are mixed economies.

A significant percentage of the western defender types are just corporate lackeys who want to redistribute wealth upwards.

It’s not a perfect venn diagram but there’s also a bunch who equate the decline of the west purely in racist terms; the decline of white majority. Lots of US pro westerners bizarrely connect it to the dominance of Christian theology in public life. Lol no.

I’m a socialist who loves western ideals who wishes we’d live up to them one day.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[peetoo]

I note our country is officially the ‘commonwealth of Australia’ which is neither capitalist nor socialist. It seems to recognise both individualism and collectivism.


commonwealth is a traditional English term for a political community founded for the common good. The noun "commonwealth", meaning "public welfare, general good or advantage", dates from the 15th century.[1] Originally a phrase (the common-wealth or the common wealth – echoed in the modern synonym "public wealth"), it comes from the old meaning of "wealth", which is "well-being", and is itself a loose translation of the Latin res publica.[2] The term literally meant "common well-being". In the 17th century, the definition of "commonwealth" expanded from its original sense of "public welfare" or "commonweal" to mean "a state in which the supreme power is vested in the people; a republic or democratic state".[3][4]

Wikipedia