Societies under autocratic rule are protesting, while democratic societies have a beef with liberal capitalism

[Carringbush2010]

Here's a whole page on the Iran protests.

2022 Iran protests - BBC News

All the latest content about 2022 Iran protests from the BBC.

www.bbc.com

Now there's a rise up against the CCP's zero covid policies, in which there are elements of anti communism. This google search has come up with from the past year.

chinese anti communist protests - Google Search

How about Russian dissent for the war? I'm sure there's many Russians who oppose the war on Ukraine.

A lot to choose from.

Meanwhile, in democracy, there's lots of sentiment for anti capitalism. Thought these would fit the narrative.

The capitol hill riots.

capitol building protest september 2021 - Google Search

Crisis of Sri Lankan capitalism provokes a popular uprising<!-- --> | <!-- -->Red Flag

Since early April, Sri Lanka has been engulfed by a wave of mass protests demanding the resignation of President Gotabaya Rajapaksa.

redflag.org.au

Anti-capitalism protest leads to broken windows, one officer and one citizen injured

An anti-capitalism protest near Place du Canada in downtown Montreal turned violent on Sunday, according to police (SPVM), with demonstrators throwing rocks and officers using "chemical irritants" to disperse the crowd.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

I could probably add a multitude of anti capitalism sentiments from the pages of BF alone.

I could probably add a gazillion others.

I'll admit in each case there's nothing more than a vocal minority in opposition, that said there is an opposition. That said I guess there's always a measure of opposition.

So the question begs for our posters, which world would you rather live in a capitalist democracy or an autocratic socialist/communist or even a theocratic society?

 

[Malifice]

Here's a whole page on the Iran protests.

Now there's a rise up against the CCP's zero covid policies, in which there are elements of anti communism. This google search has come up with from the past year.

How about Russian dissent for the war

Neatly omits the massive discord and protests and rioting for several years in the USA, where they were literally burning down their country and attempting to overthrow their own Republic.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Neatly omits the massive discord and protests and rioting for several years in the USA, where they were literally burning down their country and attempting to overthrow their own Republic.

Fair enough, I'll add that the US situation re capitol hill (if that's what you're alluding) probably doesn't even need a mention unless you live on mars or under a rock.

That said, that abomination doesn't come under 'anti capitalism' IMO, it comes under a bunch of whack jobs flying the anarchy flag - because they share literally less than one neuron between the lot of them.

Point taken but.

 

[Malifice]

That said, that abomination doesn't come under 'anti capitalism' IMO, it comes under a bunch of whack jobs flying the anarchy flag - because they share literally less than one neuron between the lot of them.

The Jan 6 crew weren't Anarchists. They were Fascists, or people who sympathize with fascism (Far Right authoritarian types).

 

[Carringbush2010]

The Jan 6 crew weren't Anarchists. They were Fascists, or people who sympathize with fascism (Far Right authoritarian types).

Fair enough, it was an anarchist protest none the less - either either there's more IQ in this keyboard I'm scribing on.

 

[sherb]

So the question begs for our posters, which world would you rather live in a capitalist democracy or an autocratic socialist/communist or even a theocratic society?

I don't see why you have framed the options that way, as if they are the only ones.

I'm sure there are plenty who want to see a better form of capitalism at play, due to the failings of the current version. That doesn't mean they want to go full on socialist/communist, etc.

 

[Jafa]

Fair enough, I'll add that the US situation re capitol hill (if that's what you're alluding) probably doesn't even need a mention unless you live on mars or under a rock.

That said, that abomination doesn't come under 'anti capitalism' IMO, it comes under a bunch of whack jobs flying the anarchy flag - because they share literally less than one neuron between the lot of them.

Point taken but.

I would have thought the Antifa/BLM riots would have been better examples.

 

[Saint]

It's mostly just people being selfish. Some, such as those in China, it's probably justified, since they've got very little freedom, particularly at the moment. While the Jan 6 protesters probably have a bit too much, since they're not being punished for trying to overthrow the democracy which protects them from Chinese-style autocracy.

Capitalism obviously isn't perfect. I just read this about job layoffs at a factory in Mississippi where 2,700 staff got a text of immediate termination with no severance and no more healthcare, just before Thanksgiving and Christmas.

"I have spoken to a husband and wife who both lost their job at the same time, an individual who has stomach cancer and is worried about affording his medication, and another individual who has to decide between postponing a surgery or paying the medical expenses out of pocket. This is a tragic situation that is hard to understand," he said.

United Furniture sued after firing 2,700 workers by text message before Thanksgiving

United Furniture Industries is being sued after the company laid off around 2,700 employees at locations across the country via emails and text messages.

www.foxbusiness.com

But it's in Mississippi and those morons vote Republican, so most of them are probably just getting what they voted for. At least they had that freedom to vote for this type of "freedom".

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don't see why you have framed the options that way, as if they are the only ones.

I'm sure there are plenty who want to see a better form of capitalism at play, due to the failings of the current version. That doesn't mean they want to go full on socialist/communist, etc.

Actually Sherb I didn't frame it that way, it's how you interpreted it.

Of course there are widely varying forms of different societal models.

I'm just interested to gauge everyone's thoughts on here as to which model they'd prefer.

That doesn't equate to it's pick one of these and no room for adjustments.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I would have thought the Antifa/BLM riots would have been better examples.

Well antifa / Blm (and others) aren't necessarily in protest against the societal model they live in, they're in protest of certain things.

For example BLM is in protest of inequitable treatment of poc, not in protest against capitalist democracy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Actually Malifice .

On reflection, I've come to the opinion that the maga nutjobs @ capitol hill doesn't fit the mould of 'anti capitalism'. They were brainwashed to believe a conspiracy theory and went about tryna bring down a democratic process without knowing they were doing something undemocratic.

So it wasn't an intent to protest against capitalism

The other examples like Iran and China have deliberate elements of anti socialism / theocracy, and there are example of anti capitalism on these very pages of BF.

 

[Malifice]

Well antifa / Blm (and others) aren't necessarily in protest against the societal model they live in, they're in protest of certain things.

For example BLM is in protest of inequitable treatment of poc, not in protest against capitalist democracy.

ANTIFA is literally full of Socialists mate. They're clearly anti-capitalism and the inequalities it creates. Of course their main target is Fascists (it's in the name).

That said, there are a significant number of Liberals are in ANTIFA as well. That mob usually accept (or even embrace) capitalism to some extent.

 

[Carringbush2010]

ANTIFA is literally full of Socialists mate. They're clearly anti-capitalism and the inequalities it creates. Of course their main target is Fascists (it's in the name).

That said, there are a significant number of Liberals are in ANTIFA as well. That mob usually accept (or even embrace) capitalism to some extent.

Our views on antifa seem aligned then, I guess the difference being that antifa usually find specifics to protest against - for example deliberately engage with fringe right wingers when opportunity arises. Not everyday getting up to purely protest against capitalism.

Trivial difference? Perhaps.

Capitalism IMO is not an intended platform for fascism (if that is antifa's allusion), you could argue that any societal model is a platform for fascism if that's the case.

 

[Malifice]

Our views on antifa seem aligned then, I guess the difference being that antifa usually find specifics to protest against - for example deliberately engage with fringe right wingers when opportunity arises

Like this mob:

The leader of the far-right Oath Keepers group on Tuesday was found guilty of conspiring against the federal government as part of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol -- a major conviction in prosecutors' ongoing cases against the rioters that day.

Stewart Rhodes, a Yale Law School graduate-turned-militiaman, was convicted of his most serious charge, seditious conspiracy, following a sprawling two-month trial in federal court in Washington and three days of jury deliberations.

An associate, Kelly Meggs, was also found guilty of seditious conspiracy in the first such convictions by a jury since 1995. They could both face a maximum of 20 years in prison for that charge alone.

Jury convicts Oath Keepers leader, 1 other of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 trial

Those cookers are absolutely no different from the Freikorps in Weimar Germany in the 1920's, were also opposed by ANTIFA.

In that case, ANTIFA lost, Hitler rose to power and 80 million died.

 

[Gethelred]

Actually Sherb I didn't frame it that way, it's how you interpreted it.

I'm doing my best to leave you alone, but you so, so often use this reversal of onus on people who disagree with you. You're never wrong, you never make an assumption, you're never operating from a pretext; no, we're misinterpreting you, we're making assumptions, we're reading your mind.

Have you ever considered that it really isn't us, at least sometimes?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm doing my best to leave you alone, but you so, so often use this reversal of onus on people who disagree with you. You're never wrong, you never make an assumption, you're never operating from a pretext; no, we're misinterpreting you, we're making assumptions, we're reading your mind.

Have you ever considered that it really isn't us, at least sometimes?

A little unfair Gethy, in that reply I did make it clear the OP wasn't a rigid either or.

I will concede that my posts / OP's can be misread and in part (or even in complete) maybe my fault, however this is not an intention to mislead nor to merely dismiss.

If it comes across that way then my apologies sherb

 

[ParapMarkets]

We don't live in a democracy, it's an Oligarchy.

Princeton Study: The U.S. Is Not 'Losing' Its Democracy, It's Already Long Gone - Dao Coaching

The notion that citizens of the United States don’t actually live in a democracy has been picking up steam for decades, with scars from economic, social and political decay inflicting themselves ever more deeply into our psyches as the years move on. You would think that, with the rise of...

daocoaching.com

It really doesn't matter which side is in power, they are both acting in the interests of the mega wealthy and corporations and not the people.

The media in the West is absolutely awful, everything is divisive in that there is an obvious favouring of one side over the other. There is never (or extremely rarely) balanced reporting that encourages discourse and debate. This allows both sides of politics to get away with scandals without accountability since the political parties (and their supporters) brush aside any scandal as a witch hunt from the other side.

This is all by design, in my opinion, to keep us all arguing among ourselves, while both sides of politics make life worse for the people and the wealthiest 1% continue to accelerate their wealth and power.

 

[bzparkes]

In conclusion: People = morons.

 

[sherb]

Actually Sherb I didn't frame it that way, it's how you interpreted it.

Of course there are widely varying forms of different societal models.

I'm just interested to gauge everyone's thoughts on here as to which model they'd prefer.

That doesn't equate to it's pick one of these and no room for adjustments.

Nah. No misinterpretation on my part.

You posted this question -
So the question begs for our posters, which world would you rather live in a capitalist democracy or an autocratic socialist/communist or even a theocratic society?

No nuances or middle ground in that. It's either one or the other or the other the way you have worded it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Nah. No misinterpretation on my part.

You posted this question -
So the question begs for our posters, which world would you rather live in a capitalist democracy or an autocratic socialist/communist or even a theocratic society?

No nuances or middle ground in that. It's either one or the other or the other the way you have worded it.

Ok fair enough, I shoulda put in the OP that this is not a rigid either or.

I am expecting nuanced views of what posters would ideally prefer.

 

[Evolved1]

Neatly omits the massive discord and protests and rioting for several years in the USA, where they were literally burning down their country and attempting to overthrow their own Republic.

I thought that was a one day event, Jan 6. What are you referring to?

 

[Malifice]

I thought that was a one day event, Jan 6. What are you referring to?

America tearing itself to pieces and burning for literally years leading up to Jan 6.

That.

 

[bfff]

In both scenarios it is people's frustration at a lack of control over their material conditions. Under "liberal capitalism" there is a veneer of personal agency but actual power is in the hands of a tiny minority. A prime example from Australia is housing affordability. Successive Australian governments have failed to shift housing policy from that which prioritises the interests of the already wealthy to that which prioritises access to adequate housing for all Australians.