Opinion It's time St Kilda and Riewoldt moved on in different direction

[VDS66]

But then again guess we can continue to stroke the ego of the senior guys and let them dictate everything...

Is this fact? Coz last year people were into Watters because he tore the pics off the gym wall and offended the senior players. Now we are stroking their egos?

Confused.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

We are lacking in outside run and link up play and Roo can do this for us and I think he would relish having freedom and the oppositions would struggle to find a matchup for him.

 

[Defacto]

position move: sure. were at a point where we can try anything. if it means fast tracking younger players if we play roo at FB i'm all for it. you never never know..personally i dont think the wing move will work..but i think it has merit and deserves a go

trade: yeah..nah. i know you were just throwing it up as an example and i know you probably wouldnt do it..but lets be honest, if we do something like that we might as well just fold as a club. i'm not joking either. the symbolism of roo as a saint is probably one of the most important things we have from the last 20 years. throwing that away would be disastrous.

 

[ike2112]

We are lacking in outside run and link up play and Roo can do this for us and I think he would relish having freedom and the oppositions would struggle to find a matchup for him.

At the same time, I cant see him chasing down Isaac Smith. He'd be a matchup problem both ways.

And to be honest the trade thing was never really an option hence why I didn't even mention it in previous reply. When I meet folk these days and I say I'm a Saints fan, all I ever hear back is people gushing about Lenny and Roo. Every fan of every club knows them as Saints and has the greatest admiration for them. They're retiring in RWB.

 

[Curious George]

If we loose Riewoldt, we will turn into what melbourne were over the last few years! I'd like to see him up the ground, but don't think his knee can hold up with that amount of pressure.
Last year we lost Milne who kicked between 30-50 goals a year, that means we have to find it from somewhere else, sadly we haven't, can't expect some somebody just to stand up.
We lost his replacement in Saad, who hopefully we will pick up again
Nobody else is knocking down the door to be our next full forward, so if Riewoldt goes there goes another 50 goals a year we have to find, and i dont know who is going to do that. I do believe Lee has what it takes (to be our next full forward), he finished off last season in great form but hasn't been able to find it yet, but then again he has been playing up the ground, not just as a forward, where I see him playing his footy!

 

[Strahany]

One thing I would like to add to the discussion is that, perhaps we always kick it to Roo because he is simply the best option? During the Geelong game, the commentators were mentioning how several Saints and ex-Saints midfielders said that Riewoldt has almost perfected leading; every time they get the ball in an attacking position, they only need to look up for a split second to see Roo running through their line of sight.

"Take the first option" is a constant mantra in our game, and I imagine it is relatively pertinent to this issue.

 

[stkildathunda]

position move: sure. were at a point where we can try anything. if it means fast tracking younger players if we play roo at FB i'm all for it. you never never know..personally i dont think the wing move will work..but i think it has merit and deserves a go

trade: yeah..nah. i know you were just throwing it up as an example and i know you probably wouldnt do it..but lets be honest, if we do something like that we might as well just fold as a club. i'm not joking either. the symbolism of roo as a saint is probably one of the most important things we have from the last 20 years. throwing that away would be disastrous.

Yeah wouldn't do it and was just using it as another example. Probably shouldn't have added it in. Main point I was trying to make and unfortunately people are more talking bout trading part of it, was that Roo needs to move out of 50 to then be able to develop our young forwards. Whether that's onto wing, backline or wherever. Majority of game he can't be in forward 50.


People have mentioned his knee, I'd almost think it would potentially help him cos he wouldn't have all that banging and crashing in marking contests, falling onto ground etc as he does when playing as a forward.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Last year our top goal scorers

Nick Riewoldt: 50
Stephen Milne: 28
Ahmed Saad: 17
Tom Lee: 17
Leigh Montagna: 16
Jack Steven: 16

Interesting looking at that, really lacking forwards still especially going by that.

 

[thomas_m18]

Could also just plonk him on a HBF. Allows him to mentor some of the younger kids down back and get in the way of the numerous bombs delivered into our backline on a regular basis. Probably doesn't benefit him or our depth HBFs though.

 

[ike2112]

If we loose Riewoldt, we will turn into what melbourne were over the last few years! I'd like to see him up the ground, but don't think his knee can hold up with that amount of pressure.
Last year we lost Milne who kicked between 30-50 goals a year, that means we have to find it from somewhere else, sadly we haven't, can't expect some somebody just to stand up.
We lost his replacement in Saad, who hopefully we will pick up again
Knowbody else is knocking down the door to be our next full forward, so if Riewoldt goes there goes another 50 goals a year we have to find, and i dont know who is going to do that. I do believe Lee has what it takes (to be our next full forward), he finished off last season in great form but hasn't been able to find it yet, but then again he has been playing up the ground, not just as a forward, where I see him playing his footy!

I think in a way you've gone full circle in that post. We don't want to be the rabble that Melbourne became in the last few years. But I don't think it's too far off to say we probably need to go through what they did earlier this season.

Melbourne when they played us - no forward. No route to goal. They looked like Bernie Vince bombing it from 60 was plan A, and plan B was to hope Pederson suddenly channeled his inner Barry Hall. In a matter of weeks they've gone from looking like its a miracle when they do score, to finding routes to goal. Then they still have hopes for Hogan, and another high pick to come this year.

We need to go through that pain, otherwise we are delaying the enivitable. If we are getting beaten to the ball but have a route to goal, we'll have pain. Then if we sort out winning ball but dont have a route to goal, we'll have pain. Best get both out of the way asap, rather than have 2 years of the first then 2 years of the second.

 

[mighty sainters]

Moving him onto a wing doesn't necessarily mean he absolutely won't play in the forward line still. IMO, the best thing would be to play on a wing for half a quarter, and spend the other half at full forward with the occasional spell on the bench to get a break. That way, we can still have him on there if we need him, but have an element of unpredictability when he isn't there, and see which of our so called forwards might actually make it (cause it'd be better to know now than in a few years)

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Why don't we give him a game or two where we rest him and try a new forward set up?

Did against Fremantle last year and thought it worked well were also without Milne and Kosi in that match. Saad played and kicked 3 so is a bit of a loss.

 

[Mindtraveller]

Moving him onto a wing doesn't necessarily mean he absolutely won't play in the forward line still. IMO, the best thing would be to play on a wing for half a quarter, and spend the other half at full forward with the occasional spell on the bench to get a break. That way, we can still have him on there if we need him, but have an element of unpredictability when he isn't there, and see which of our so called forwards might actually make it (cause it'd be better to know now than in a few years)

He isn't a full forward. Rotating on the wing and backline is best imo.

 

[nitewalker13]

I think we shld rest Riewoldt for 3-4 matches and give stanley, lee and siposs a go. Just throw them into deep end. Worst come to worst we will lose by 140 pts. But atleast we will know whether our forwards got any skills and hunger?

Riewoldt will be good in HB and if needed can go play in forward. But i reckon for rest of this season he shld not play as forward or half forward.

 

[Plugger35]

He deserves to finish his career as a one club player, I wouldn't want to see him traded no matter what draft picks/players we got for him.

 

[mighty sainters]

He isn't a full forward. Rotating on the wing and backline is best imo.

Yeah, but it's more that playing on the wing would tire him out more, so he could stay closer to goals in the forward line so it can be a bit of a 'rest' (because he usually just runs non-stop). Playing him at full forward doesn't necessarily mean he has to change the way he plays, which is that of a lead up forward, more just where his starting point is, and hopefully he gets the ball closer to goal when he is there

 

[Mindtraveller]

Yeah, but it's more that playing on the wing would tire him out more, so he could stay closer to goals in the forward line so it can be a bit of a 'rest' (because he usually just runs non-stop). Playing him at full forward doesn't necessarily mean he has to change the way he plays, which is that of a lead up forward, more just where his starting point is, and hopefully he gets the ball closer to goal when he is there

But then you're putting him back where you're trying to move him away from. It's completely out of the F50 or nothing.

 

[mighty sainters]

But then you're putting him back where you're trying to move him away from. It's completely out of the F50 or nothing.

He's a champion forward, he doesn't have to be banished from the forward line. Not all of Stanley, Lee and Siposs are gonna be in the forward line all the time anyway

 

[VDS66]

would be interested to know the stats... how often is there a better option available when the ball goes to Roo.

If the first / best option is to go to another player and we don't, then there is a problem.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I reckon a "general soreness" rest for a week is a good idea. Would give a chance to play

Dunell Stanley Siposs

Billings Maister Milera


He went back on Sunday and guess what, when he demanded the ball and our poor skills meant the turnover occurred at Geelongs CHF rather than ours.

 

[Rors]

Reality is that we do not have any decent forwards to speak of. If you think Lee/ Stanley and Sipposs are the answer then you are asking the wrong question.

The other reality is that since 2004, we hardly had any decent picks, and those that we did, we threw away with stupid selections. And salary decisions from previous admins out us in a precarious position which made it next to impossible to recruit a partner for him. Ball and Kosi were being paid way over their worth. We had Allen, but he had to quit because of injuries.

The reason why we kick it to Roo is because he works his bloody arse off making multiple leads.

But it is now what it is and cannot be undone. You cannot blood a replacement until you have one on your list and we do not.

Roo is a legend of the club and has taken massive cuts to stay loyal to us. Cut him and you will destroy the club. Sure, play him on a wing, but Plan B is pathetic.

Silly argument IMO.

I would disagree that he has taken 'massive pay cuts'. He was one of the top 5 paid players in the league for about 6 years running (2005-2011), & it's a shame Roo, Ball & Kosi didnt take a 'pay cut' back (like Geelong players did) in the 2008-2010 era when another gun worth approx $500k could have been added to our list & got us a flag.

Anyways, back on topic, I'd play him on the wing & even throw him in the middle at some centre bounces. Then i'd also like to throw him down at centre half back to help out Bruce & Delaney.

The idea of him being traded is the equal of blasphemy! Wont happen, shouldnt happen & will never happen

 

[hayes]

would be interested to know the stats... how often is there a better option available when the ball goes to Roo.

If the first / best option is to go to another player and we don't, then there is a problem.

Doubt there's a stat like that available but I think the eye test is enough. Had plenty of posters come in here and say it, every second week commentators say we kick it to him every single time, we looked better in the Carlton game when he went off, Watters said two or three time he was too demonstrative. I could go on but I think I made my point.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Does anyone know if we've tried Spencer White down back in the VFL? he might learn a few things playing back before moving up forward possibly Roo/Kosi like early days.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Okay, so Sunday we kicked 5.7.37. But let's not forget that we kicked 14.20.104 the day before. Not last year. Effectively the Geelong game's "yesterday".

Now, obviously AFL Geelong is better than VFL Collingwood. But nonetheless. That's 34 scoring shots by the boys at Sandy, and their forward line is almost entirely Saints players. My point is, our forwards CAN score. They CAN take marks. They CAN trap the ball. And they can do all that, without Nick Riewoldt being in that forward line with them - perhaps, that's the only way they can.

 

[Rors]

Okay, so Sunday we kicked 5.7.37. But let's not forget that we kicked 14.20.104 the day before. Not last year. Effectively the Geelong game's "yesterday".

Now, obviously AFL Geelong is better than VFL Collingwood. But nonetheless. That's 34 scoring shots by the boys at Sandy, and their forward line is almost entirely Saints players. My point is, our forwards CAN score. They CAN take marks. They CAN trap the ball. And they can do all that, without Nick Riewoldt being in that forward line with them - perhaps, that's the only way they can.

I would actually say that its a combination of being poor through the middle & forward that compounds the issue. Our midfield is far from being very good, thus the forwards get dogshit delivery or are too inexperienced to see the better option (ie: lowering their eyes.... * i hate that expression, but it works for what i'm talking about, or kicking it to the fat side allowing player x to run onto the ball). But on top of that s**t service, our forwards aren't very good & thus are completely dominated by their better opponents.

Although we are getting smashed almost every week now, the backline is actually our best unit! I'd love to see the stats of the goal spread between our opposition mids, forwards & backs over the course of this year. I'd actually say that it's the opposition mids that are the ones putting the score on the board against us, followed by extraordinary number of running defender types kicking them against us as well.

v Geelong (20 goals)
Mids kicked 10 goals - Bartel (1), Selwood (3), Duncan (3), Stokes (1), Motlop (1), Stringer (1)
Forwards kicked 9 - Hawkins (3), Murdoch (2), Walker (3), Lang (1)
Defenders kicked 1 - Mackie (1)

Now to be perfectly honest, thats pretty s**t form from our mids to allow them to have the majority of their goals come from mids! Grrrrrrrrrr!

Disclaimer: I'm aware that some goals kicked by mids may have been while they were resting forward, but i hope you can understand my point regardless!