Gibbs stays - Who else do we throw the kitchen sink at?

[invinciBlues]

With the discussion on the main board about whether or not we should go hard at his contract, I thought I might offer up discussion.

With the talks of Gibbs asking around $600-700k I have to ask is he worth that much coin. And it saddens me to say I just dont think so. Even when he's on song I dont feel he can command that sort of asking price.

From a list perspective we are in dire need of a walk up start quality key position player and James Frawley is probably the best on the market at the moment that we could realistically poach. Losing Gibbs would give us a lot of room to play with our cap and we could throw a princely sum at Frawley to get him over.

It would give us a strong backline with Jamo and the room to take the pressure off developing a third tall (take your pick, I like Watson though). Frees up Henderson into the forwardline and gives us some depth. Frawleys durability is right up there having only missed a handful of games.

So then I think about what Gibbs can offer our list. When he's on song he's great but he hasnt really delivered consistently and been the damaging sort of player you'd come to expect of a number draft pick.

Im of the opinion that we should let him go and wish him all the best and make a hard play for Frawley and make him an offer he cant refuse.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Frawley would help solve a few of our structural issues that's for sure.

Would allow us to keep Henderson as a permanent forward.

 

[Wickzki]

No good bringing in a very good, possibly great, key defender if you don't have the midfield to support the backline.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Right now I'd suggest our major problem, despite needing key position players, is that we don't have a midfield that can run with the likes of Port, Hawthorn or Fremantle for a full four quarters. We can dominate for patches but then we have those let downs during games we're we are completely thrashed out of the middle and the opposition gets on a run. We're desperately in need of one, if not two, classy A graders.

 

[Big Sim]

Keep Gibbs AND get Frawley.

Or let Gibbs go and take the first round compo pick in a strong draft.

Suspect the coin being offered Frawley is pretty big and would say that the Hawks are one of the suitors. And they always get their man.

 

[HARKER]

Funny thing is that Frawley has a run of bad games and no-one notices....Gibbs has a bad quarter or half and....BANG.

Wouldn't mind Frawley but he's hardly been a world beater in recent times.

 

[Silvagnis]

Gibbs >>>>> Frawley

When he's on song he's great but he hasnt really delivered consistently and been the damaging sort of player you'd come to expect of a number draft pick.

Don't under the fascination with running down players because a club used the first pick or a first round pick on them. Gibbs has been better than Gumbleton, Hansen, Leuenberger, Armitage and Brown who were top ten picks. His season hasn't been any worse than what Boak has produced this year. Bit fumbly given he's carrying a hand injury.

Dickheads like Jon Anderson hasn't smashed David Myers who was picked ahead of Henderson, Rioli, McEvoy, Ebert, Dangerfield, Taylor, Ward and S.Selwood. They're roughly the same age with Gibbs drafted as a bottom ager.

Losing Gibbs would give us a lot of room to play with our cap and we could throw a princely sum at Frawley to get him over.

We're not saving money if we pay Bryce's money to Frawley.

 

[invinciBlues]

Keep Gibbs AND get Frawley.

Or let Gibbs go and take the first round compo pick in a strong draft.

Suspect the coin being offered Frawley is pretty big and would say that the Hawks are one of the suitors. And they always get their man.

I dont know what our cap situation is but I know there isnt much wiggle room between the floor cap, and I dont think Gibbs AND Frawley is a likely option. I think it'll be upwards of $800k to secure Frawley and to scare off other suitors. At 25 years old and given his history, its worth considering.

As for taking the first round instead... strong draft or not, those potentials are just that "potentially" great. James Frawley is a known quantity with a proven track record and an AA selection already. He's exactly what we need. Youth, abundance of talent, and services a glaring hole in our list (giggity).

Hawthorn always get their man? *. Hawthorn.

 

[HARKER]

Don't under the fascination with running down players because a club used the first pick or a first round pick on them. Gibbs has been better than Gumbleton, Hansen, Leuenberger, Armitage and Brown who were top ten picks. His season hasn't been any worse than what Boak has produced this year. Bit fumbly given he's carrying a hand injury.

Dickheads like Jon Anderson hasn't smashed David Myers who was picked ahead of Henderson, Rioli, McEvoy, Ebert, Dangerfield, Taylor, Ward and S.Selwood. They're roughly the same age with Gibbs drafted as a bottom ager.

Can you believe that it was actually Scott Lucas who brought some sense to the "Carlton recruiting" argument, on SEN yesterday?
He went out of his way to look at picks around our mark in order to make a considered assessment.........Who would have thought to do that?

At the end he pinned the only "poor" decision was to take Lucas ahead of Talia.......and even then Talia has hardly been special in the past 14 months.

 

[invinciBlues]

Gibbs >>>>> Frawley

You're not really comparing apples with apples with that one. But I'll say that I think Frawley would offer far more to our list than Gibbs does.

Don't under the fascination with running down players because a club used the first pick or a first round pick on them. Gibbs has been better than Gumbleton, Hansen, Leuenberger, Armitage and Brown who were top ten picks. His season hasn't been any worse than what Boak has produced this year. Bit fumbly given he's carrying a hand injury.

Dickheads like Jon Anderson hasn't smashed David Myers who was picked ahead of Henderson, Rioli, McEvoy, Ebert, Dangerfield, Taylor, Ward and S.Selwood. They're roughly the same age with Gibbs drafted as a bottom ager.

I didnt intend for it to come across as Gibbs bashing thread. Ive got a tremendous amount of respect for the guy and think he could be a sublime footballer if he would play with a bit of heart and tenacity. I've never said, nor have I ever thought, that he was a waste of a number 1 pick.

We're not saving money if we pay Bryce's money to Frawley.

Its not about saving money, its about saving the list.

 

[HARKER]

Hawthorn always get their man? ****. Hawthorn.

Maybe, and don't be surprised if they're actually looking at Gibbs and not Frawley.

Would make sense, wouldn't it?

 

[CrippsonBlue]

We're not one player away from contention, especially if that involves losing a player of Gibbs' ilk. Would like to see us take the Sydney route (pre Tippett) and target fringe/role players who won't cost overs but improve our overall quality (I.e Docherty/Everitt). You can't buy enough talent to win a premiership if you're always paying overs. We need to bring in players not yet there but could break out.

 

[invinciBlues]

Maybe, and don't be surprised if they're actually looking at Gibbs and not Frawley.

Would make sense, wouldn't it?

Gibbs would be a depth player at Hawthorn. I dont think they'll offer 600k+ for him.

 

[Wickzki]

Would make sense, wouldn't it?

Absolutely would make a lot of sense for the Hawks to go Gibbs over Frawley. Mitchell, Burgoyne, Sewell and Hodge (turns 30 later this year) will all be 30+ at the end of the season. They'll need to keep bringing in younger, ready to go talent in the midfield to keep their run going. A lot of their younger players of midfield height are born to be flankers. Great ones at that but flankers nonetheless.

I would think that Ratten would extol on the virtues of Gibbs being the ideal Hodge replacement.

 

[HARKER]

Gibbs would be a depth player at Hawthorn. I dont think they'll offer 600k+ for him.

Yeah..Right.

Reckon they'll be planning on Sewell (30 y.o.), Hodge (30y.o.), Burgoyne (32 this year) and even Mitchell (32 this year) not being around for too much longer.

 

[Faz 2000]

If Gibbs remains the underwhelming flanker he appears too often, fine. He's far from untouchable. Would our team actually miss him a huge amount? Not sure it would.

No amount of Gibbses fixes our structural woes, so I'm not totally off this idea. A genuine KPD to work with Jamo and protect Watson/Bootsma/whatever other idiot we try down there would help our team a lot, and obviously allow Henderson to cement a forward line position.

Still... any move we make needs to be in the context of a plan. I want to understand the plan first. When are we aiming to "be good" or peak or be on the premiership clock or open the window. Every decision should be aligned to that. Frawley is young enough to be around for a while... but if our aim is to peak 5 years from now (it probably should be), the draft is where we need to be not free agents.

 

[etsal1]

No point paying top dollar for a defender if we're going to weaken our midfield dramatically.

If we lose Gibbs I want the compo pick, not another FA.

Overpaying players is how we got in this mess. Do not overpay to get Frawley. If we lose Gibbs, he will not be the difference between winning a flag.

 

[etsal1]

I dont know what our cap situation is but I know there isnt much wiggle room between the floor cap, and I dont think Gibbs AND Frawley is a likely option. I think it'll be upwards of $800k to secure Frawley and to scare off other suitors. At 25 years old and given his history, its worth considering.

As for taking the first round instead... strong draft or not, those potentials are just that "potentially" great. James Frawley is a known quantity with a proven track record and an AA selection already. He's exactly what we need. Youth, abundance of talent, and services a glaring hole in our list (giggity).

Hawthorn always get their man? ****. Hawthorn.

800 for Frawley? It is definitely not worth considering.

Hawthorn will probably get Frawley because he wants to go there.not because they are going to overpay him. Hawthorn would never give him 800 that's not how they operate, they get players because they want to play for a successful team.

 

[Jeremias]

Gibbs would be a depth player at Hawthorn. I dont think they'll offer 600k+ for him.

No he wouldn't.

Gibbs would be a walk up start at every single club in the competition, Hawthorn included.

 

[buddyruff]

Absolutely would make a lot of sense for the Hawks to go Gibbs over Frawley. Mitchell, Burgoyne, Sewell and Hodge (turns 30 later this year) will all be 30+ at the end of the season. They'll need to keep bringing in younger, ready to go talent in the midfield to keep their run going. A lot of their younger players of midfield height are born to be flankers. Great ones at that but flankers nonetheless.

I would think that Ratten would extol on the virtues of Gibbs being the ideal Hodge replacement.

Disagree. Frawley is an All Australian full back. Gibbs is just another midfielder who these days is a dime a dozen. When you get an opportunity to land a key position player like Frawley you take it with both hands.

 

[HARKER]

Disagree. Frawley is an All Australian full back. Gibbs is just another midfielder who these days is a dime a dozen. When you get an opportunity to land a key position player like Frawley you take it with both hands.

Lake was nominated for the FB position in 2010 with Frawley next in line.

2010 is a long time ago and I don't think Frawley has exactly retained any outstanding form since........but I could be wrong because I haven't seen many Melbourne games in recent years.........nobody has.


p.s. Harry O'Brien was also AA in 2010

 

[Wickzki]

Disagree. Frawley is an All Australian full back. Gibbs is just another midfielder who these days is a dime a dozen. When you get an opportunity to land a key position player like Frawley you take it with both hands.

As much as I've railed on Gibbs he's so much more than a dime a dozen midfielder that it's laughable to suggest so.

I'm only disappointed in Gibbs because I expect more from him and honestly that may not be his fault (entirely). Has the potential (and ability) to rip matches wide open. If you put him in a team with more than a couple of A grade mids he'd easily become one of the most devastating players in the competition. He hasn't been able to do that thus far at Carlton because aside from Judd and Murphy (Simpson to a certain degree) he's rarely had a group of classy midfields around him.

Last week I said he had gone backwards, albeit slightly, since 2009 (based purely on statistics). It's probably the classiest group of midfielders that Gibbs has ever had to work with at a level that he had enough experience to play A grade football himself (his third season) -- Carrazzo, Judd, Murphy, Scotland, Simpson and Stevens all in the midfield with Gibbs with it being Aaron Joseph's one truly great year as a tagger (he was solid in 2010 but not as good, in my opinion, as 2009) where he claimed more scalps than he lost. Gibbs finished top ten in the Brownlow that year.

 

[slashin_velvet]

For mine its as simple as:
- Finish in the 8 - he likely stays, and if he doesnt, then happy to take frawley as the compo pick will be average
- Finish in the bottom 10, he likely goes, in which case keep the top 10 pick in a strong KPP draft and take a good KPF and KPD with our first 2 picks whilst trading in some fringe players.

 

[invinciBlues]

800 for Frawley? It is definitely not worth considering.

Is 600-700 for Gibbs worth considering?

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Could someone explain to me how Hawthorn can bring in Lake, Bourgoyne, Gibson, Hale and Gunston, yet we dont have any cap room?

 

[HARKER]

Could someone explain to me how Hawthorn can bring in Lake, Bourgoyne, Gibson, Hale and Gunston, yet we dont have any cap room?

Because Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Roughead, Franklin (previously) played for the love of things.