Roast My feelings about Hawthorn losing the 2012 Grand Final

[Moley Russels Wart]

You need to poke your head out of the Cattery once in a while and learn a bit more about opposition lists before you start dribbling this kind of garbage.

He can dribble as much as he likes in the Cats forum mate. Everyone is entitled to their opinion

 

[fishtopher]

Wondered how long it would be until someone pulled the "this is our forum" card but cmon', you can't have a thread like this a not expect a bit of attention from the nest.

Totally agree with you too though. We are all entitled to our opinions and my opinion is that he is dribbling. It is also my opinion that his opinion is based a lot less on fact than my opinion. What's your opinion on that?

 

[Moley Russels Wart]

Wondered how long it would be until someone pulled the "this is our forum" card but cmon', you can't have a thread like this a not expect a bit of attention from the nest.

Totally agree with you too though. We are all entitled to our opinions and my opinion is that he is dribbling. It is also my opinion that his opinion is based a lot less on fact than my opinion. What's your opinion on that?

You sound very opinionated....

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

I counted a couple and no-one who actually agreed with you beyond our premiership window being more closed than open. Doesn't quiet add up to not making the eight. If you want four to one with the Cats finishing above us as well just let me know. Out of curiosity, where do you think the Cats will finish this year? Let's see how confident (and honest) you can be in front of your brethren. Or is just going to be more dribble?

Ill spell it out slowly for you.

Hawthorn have a back 6 that are relying on a proven nutjob who's knees are self admittedly shot. This plus shoemmakers who Even though many other 22-23 year old players are now dominating, "is still developing" he's not. He's jut a weak hack who will always be bullied by Hawkins, cloke, walker et el. Geelong on the other hand have an AA chb in Taylor, have recruited a rising star winner in Rivers ad have arguably the best "monster" key defender in the afl in Lonergran. Add multiple AA Enright and Mackie coming off his best year ever, and you'd say te Cats back 6 owns Hawthons comfortably.

Hawthorns mids rely massively On a 30 year old in Mitchell who has never been quick and an old looking Sewell. Burgoyne is also 30. They dot have any genuine young gun mids comin through. Geelongs midfield however rotates gun skipper Selwood. AA Johnson. AA Corey (fit for the first time and done a full preseason for the first time in 2 years) AA and brownlow medal winning norm smith medallist in Bartel. Genuine gun youngsters in Christensen T Hunt and Duncan. AA Kelly fair to say the Cats mids are what clarkson wishes he has.

Hawks forward 6 rely in Buddy who can kick straight, and chokes in clutch moments (see round 19 and the GF ) Cyril who just can't seem to do it for more than 6 minutes straight) ad Roughy who is the biggest downhill skier I think move ever seen. As opposed to Hawkins who kicks clutch goals, Pods who unlike buddy can actually take a pack mark above his head, and AA Johnson when he's not in the ball, norm smith medallist and AA chapman, ad young guns in Smedts and Motlop. Pressure players who have stood up time and time again and have as many as 3 shiny medals to prove it.

Then there is he Ruck situation. Hawthorn have a spud with a rug that couldn't web get a regular game a Norf. And a bloke wth paper machet knees. Who can't get a kick around the ground I might add. Cats have Trent west who owns both those players, but have since added a match winner in McIntosh. Breathing down both their necks is 206 cm and agile, marking Dawson Simpson. Who is also injury free for he first time in 3 years and completing a preseason. Cats rucks pretty much rape hawthorns.

Hawthorn are not underachievers. They are a massively over rated side that haven't recruited or developed enough to keep up wth the natural 5-10% improvement the comp naturally makes each year. Not only will Geelong finish top 4, hawthorn will miss the 8 altogether, as sides improving like Richmond Essendon, Sydney (will improve) Collingwood (second year under Buckley with youngsters proving also) Carlton, west coast and Freo all keep them out.

I honestly can see them finishing above any on the aforementioned sides. Not to mention the crows and Norf.


Finally. **** off back to your own board.

 

[fishtopher]

Ill spell it out slowly for you.

Hawthorn have a back 6 that are relying on a proven nutjob who's knees are self admittedly shot. This plus shoemmakers who Even though many other 22-23 year old players are now dominating, "is still developing" he's not. He's jut a weak hack who will always be bullied by Hawkins, cloke, walker et el. Geelong on the other hand have an AA chb in Taylor, have recruited a rising star winner in Rivers ad have arguably the best "monster" key defender in the afl in Lonergran. Add multiple AA Enright and Mackie coming off his best year ever, and you'd say te Cats back 6 owns Hawthons comfortably.

Hawthorns mids rely massively On a 30 year old in Mitchell who has never been quick and an old looking Sewell. Burgoyne is also 30. They dot have any genuine young gun mids comin through. Geelongs midfield however rotates gun skipper Selwood. AA Johnson. AA Corey (fit for the first time and done a full preseason for the first time in 2 years) AA and brownlow medal winning norm smith medallist in Bartel. Genuine gun youngsters in Christensen T Hunt and Duncan. AA Kelly fair to say the Cats mids are what clarkson wishes he has.

Hawks forward 6 rely in Buddy who can kick straight, and chokes in clutch moments (see round 19 and the GF ) Cyril who just can't seem to do it for more than 6 minutes straight) ad Roughy who is the biggest downhill skier I think move ever seen. As opposed to Hawkins who kicks clutch goals, Pods who unlike buddy can actually take a pack mark above his head, and AA Johnson when he's not in the ball, norm smith medallist and AA chapman, ad young guns in Smedts and Motlop. Pressure players who have stood up time and time again and have as many as 3 shiny medals to prove it.

Then there is he Ruck situation. Hawthorn have a spud with a rug that couldn't web get a regular game a Norf. And a bloke wth paper machet knees. Who can't get a kick around the ground I might add. Cats have Trent west who owns both those players, but have since added a match winner in McIntosh. Breathing down both their necks is 206 cm and agile, marking Dawson Simpson. Who is also injury free for he first time in 3 years and completing a preseason. Cats rucks pretty much rape hawthorns.

Hawthorn are not underachievers. They are a massively over rated side that haven't recruited or developed enough to keep up wth the natural 5-10% improvement the comp naturally makes each year. Not only will Geelong finish top 4, hawthorn will miss the 8 altogether, as sides improving like Richmond Essendon, Sydney (will improve) Collingwood (second year under Buckley with youngsters proving also) Carlton, west coast and Freo all keep them out.

I honestly can see them finishing above any on the aforementioned sides. Not to mention the crows and Norf.


Finally. **** off back to your own board.

Thanks for spelling that out for me but considering it's taken you two days to pull all that together and there's not even a hint of objectivity, I'd prefer to take lessons off someone who doesn't spell everything C A T (your grammer is shithouse by the way, so I wouldn't recommend offering too many more lessons).

Seeing as you seem a little sensitive I'll address what you've got there and happily **** off out of this pathetic "we weren't good enough to be there so we'll bag someone who was" thread. However, with Bigfooty being an open forum and not geelongcats.com.au I'll probably continue to read and contribute to any thread that catches my eye.

So Lake's a nutjob but Stevie J's an eccentric genius who has grown up now yeah? You also forgot to mention the two AA gongs of his that you're seem such a fan of. Honest mistake I'm sure. Those dodgy knees of his? Seemed to get through last year just fine and before 2011 he missed about four games in six years so it's not exactly a chronic problem.

I didn't get to see every game last year so I must have missed something. Who are all these key position defenders that are 22/23 and dominating? (Schoenmakers only turned 22 in November by the way) Harry Taylor, who is undoubtedly a gun now, couldn't even get a game until he was verging on 22. Rance? Davis? Should both be solid defenders but are hardly dominating just yet. Reid? Frawley? Definitely a step ahead but they have both had two more years in the system which makes a massive difference to a 21 year old.

You didn't mention Stratton either so you obviously realise the emerging talent there.

I'll happily see your Mackie with a Birchall. He was All Australian in 2012. A bit more relavent than all of your historical AA throwbacks.

Enright I will give you. In fact I'm able to see the game through both eyes and can admit that on paper Geelong had a better backline than we did. Notice I said had and did there though. Scarlett is a huge hole to fill and a solid B grade defender in Jared Rivers can't even come close to making up for that lose. Scarlett's fading last year might have had something to do with Geelong's defence dropping down to seventh last year (Hawthorn was third by the way) from second the year before (Hawthorn third again).

Midfields - Hawthorn rely on Sam Mitchell. Thanks for that one Captain Obvious. When you've got an extraction machine like that at your disposable you tend to set up a few things around him. I also love how both him and Sewell are too old but Bartel and Chapman are obviously in their prime because you only mentioned that historical data again with those two.

Where are the "genuine gun youngsters" you ask. Let's put the names Rioli, Shiels & Bruest next to Christensen, Hunt & Duncan in an open bigfooty poll and see who gets the vote. They are all quality names but I think we've got you covered there at the moment.

I can't really be bothered going through the forwards. You know ours is better. Try another poll if you really think you need to. We did rely on Bud's 69 goals, though it is pretty comprable to Hawkins' 62. His 18.4 average touches compared to Hawkins' 12.6 was pretty handy too. Hopefully this year we can get more than 239 goals from our next seven goal kickers. Bruest (45), Roughead (41), Rioli (39), Gunston (39), Lewis (27), Puopolo (24) and Hale (24) should really take note out of the book of that star studded, medal winning forward line you mentioned. Actually, now that I look at it 166 from your next seven doesn't look as impressive as I thought compared to 239. Maybe they were being weighed down by all those medals?

Since when has Trent West owned anyone? You really started to lose me completely there. How about we go to the stats again for this one:

Trent West 2012 - Disposals - 215 ave. 10.2 Marks - 59 ave. 2.8 Goals - 8 ave. 0.4 Hitouts - 518 ave. 24.7
David Hale 2012 - Disposals - 331 ave. 13.8 Marks - 94 ave. 3.9 Goals - 24 ave. 1 Hitouts - 547 ave. 22.8

Now, who owned who again?

Let's check out Roughie (that downhill skier who only missed two games after coming back from an achilles that most thought would keep him out for a big chunk of last year) while we're at it:

Jarryd Roughead 2012 - Disposals - 392 ave. 17 Marks - 105 ave. 4.6 Goals - 41 ave. 1.8 Hitouts - 222 ave. 9.65

Not too bad for a 2nd ruckman eh?

So to sum it all up I'd have to say that I completely agree with you. I too "honestly can see them finishing above any on the aforementioned sides".

Good luck for the year and if you get bored with nothing to watch come September enjoy barracking against us.

 

[David the Cat]

Gee....with all that Hawk superiority, its no wonder you beat us all the time.................oh hang on....

 

[manboob]

Switzerland is making you sassy...and I like it!

 

[FredLeDeux]

Thanks for spelling that out for me but considering it's taken you two days to pull all that together and there's not even a hint of objectivity, I'd prefer to take lessons off someone who doesn't spell everything C A T (your grammer is shithouse by the way, so I wouldn't recommend offering too many more lessons).

That's cute, considering the dozen or so grammatical, spelling and punctuation mistakes in your own diatribe.
In my view, you could also have avoided your numerous lapses into infelicitous phrasing with a bit more care and forethought; but what the heck, it's an internet forum.

 

[you pick one]

That's cute, considering the dozen or so grammatical, spelling and punctuation mistakes in your own diatribe.
In my view, you could also have avoided your numerous lapses into infelicitous phrasing with a bit more care and forethought; but what the heck, it's an internet forum.

That's me if that's the standard i'm f--ked.

 

[AlterRob]

Thanks for spelling that out for me but considering it's taken you two days to pull all that together and there's not even a hint of objectivity, I'd prefer to take lessons off someone who doesn't spell everything C A T (your grammer is shithouse by the way, so I wouldn't recommend offering too many more lessons).

Seeing as you seem a little sensitive I'll address what you've got there and happily **** off out of this pathetic "we weren't good enough to be there so we'll bag someone who was" thread. However, with Bigfooty being an open forum and not geelongcats.com.au I'll probably continue to read and contribute to any thread that catches my eye.

So Lake's a nutjob but Stevie J's an eccentric genius who has grown up now yeah? You also forgot to mention the two AA gongs of his that you're seem such a fan of. Honest mistake I'm sure. Those dodgy knees of his? Seemed to get through last year just fine and before 2011 he missed about four games in six years so it's not exactly a chronic problem.

I didn't get to see every game last year so I must have missed something. Who are all these key position defenders that are 22/23 and dominating? (Schoenmakers only turned 22 in November by the way) Harry Taylor, who is undoubtedly a gun now, couldn't even get a game until he was verging on 22. Rance? Davis? Should both be solid defenders but are hardly dominating just yet. Reid? Frawley? Definitely a step ahead but they have both had two more years in the system which makes a massive difference to a 21 year old.

You didn't mention Stratton either so you obviously realise the emerging talent there.

I'll happily see your Mackie with a Birchall. He was All Australian in 2012. A bit more relavent than all of your historical AA throwbacks.

Enright I will give you. In fact I'm able to see the game through both eyes and can admit that on paper Geelong had a better backline than we did. Notice I said had and did there though. Scarlett is a huge hole to fill and a solid B grade defender in Jared Rivers can't even come close to making up for that lose. Scarlett's fading last year might have had something to do with Geelong's defence dropping down to seventh last year (Hawthorn was third by the way) from second the year before (Hawthorn third again).

Midfields - Hawthorn rely on Sam Mitchell. Thanks for that one Captain Obvious. When you've got an extraction machine like that at your disposable you tend to set up a few things around him. I also love how both him and Sewell are too old but Bartel and Chapman are obviously in their prime because you only mentioned that historical data again with those two.

Where are the "genuine gun youngsters" you ask. Let's put the names Rioli, Shiels & Bruest next to Christensen, Hunt & Duncan in an open bigfooty poll and see who gets the vote. They are all quality names but I think we've got you covered there at the moment.

I can't really be bothered going through the forwards. You know ours is better. Try another poll if you really think you need to. We did rely on Bud's 69 goals, though it is pretty comprable to Hawkins' 62. His 18.4 average touches compared to Hawkins' 12.6 was pretty handy too. Hopefully this year we can get more than 239 goals from our next seven goal kickers. Bruest (45), Roughead (41), Rioli (39), Gunston (39), Lewis (27), Puopolo (24) and Hale (24) should really take note out of the book of that star studded, medal winning forward line you mentioned. Actually, now that I look at it 166 from your next seven doesn't look as impressive as I thought compared to 239. Maybe they were being weighed down by all those medals?

Since when has Trent West owned anyone? You really started to lose me completely there. How about we go to the stats again for this one:

Trent West 2012 - Disposals - 215 ave. 10.2 Marks - 59 ave. 2.8 Goals - 8 ave. 0.4 Hitouts - 518 ave. 24.7
David Hale 2012 - Disposals - 331 ave. 13.8 Marks - 94 ave. 3.9 Goals - 24 ave. 1 Hitouts - 547 ave. 22.8

Now, who owned who again?

Let's check out Roughie (that downhill skier who only missed two games after coming back from an achilles that most thought would keep him out for a big chunk of last year) while we're at it:

Jarryd Roughead 2012 - Disposals - 392 ave. 17 Marks - 105 ave. 4.6 Goals - 41 ave. 1.8 Hitouts - 222 ave. 9.65

Not too bad for a 2nd ruckman eh?

So to sum it all up I'd have to say that I completely agree with you. I too "honestly can see them finishing above any on the aforementioned sides".

Good luck for the year and if you get bored with nothing to watch come September enjoy barracking against us.

tldr

 

[catswhiskers]

tldr

Wah??

 

[catswhiskers]

Now I have had a close look at the Hawks list I am ready to make a prediction.

If the Hawks don't make the grandfinal in 2013, Clarkson will do a Lyon. He will take the chocolates from wherever and leave his past club to try to recover from a serious lack of list maintenance.

All the Hawk eggs are on 2013 being the year (to make up for underachieving with a gun list in 2009,2010,2011,2012).

Plhw.

 

[SJ]

Come on Cats fans, I like to think we're a board that welcomes opposition supporters as long as they play the ball and not the man.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Come on Cats fans, I like to think we're a board that welcomes opposition supporters as long as they play the ball and not the man.

Fair enough SJ, but in this particular case (after the initial harmless banter), it was the Hawthorn poster who started in with the abuse in post #644, describing a perfectly unexceptionable post as "dribbling....garbage". To which the original poster, not surprisingly, responded in kind, etc., etc.

 

[fishtopher]

That's cute, considering the dozen or so grammatical, spelling and punctuation mistakes in your own diatribe.
In my view, you could also have avoided your numerous lapses into infelicitous phrasing with a bit more care and forethought; but what the heck, it's an internet forum.

Bugger. It was four in the morning and I never claimed to be no english proper expert. Just threw that one in there to fatten up the worm a bit. Misspelling grammar is a bit embarassing though

 

[fishtopher]

Fair enough SJ, but in this particular case (after the initial harmless banter), it was the Hawthorn poster who started in with the abuse in post #644, describing a perfectly unexceptionable post as "dribbling....garbage". To which the original poster, not surprisingly, responded in kind, etc., etc.

It was hardly abuse and saying a team who played off on the big day last year and many will be predicting to again be on top of the ladder come September won't make the eight is long way off being perfectly unexceptionable. You have given my second "word for the day" though, so cheers for that.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Bugger. It was four in the morning and I never claimed to be no english proper expert. Just threw that one in there to fatten up the worm a bit. Misspelling grammar is a bit embarassing though

It was hardly abuse and saying a team who played off on the big day last year and many will be predicting to again be on top of the ladder come September won't make the eight is long way off being perfectly unexceptionable. You have given my second "word for the day" though, so cheers for that.

Goodo, you can now continue the discussion with Catsmaninamerica. I might note, however, that it has not been my experience that he requires any worm-fattening or other encouragement to engage in robust discussion!

 

[Moley Russels Wart]

Jeez, word limits people! If it can't be said with under 100 words it ain't worth saying...

 

[Moley Russels Wart]

Although, fishtopher, I have to say you have made it more interesting around here...

At the risk of sounding like I agree with Catsmaninamerica, I do find it hard to see where the improvement will come from for Hawthorn, and they will need to improve, even the premiers Sydney will improve quite a bit. And it's not as if Clarkson has more than one gamelplan. I don't see them out of the eight though, more like a year like Collingwood had in 2012, thereabouts but overtaken by a few other teams.

 

[fishtopher]

Although, fishtopher, I have to say you have made it more interesting around here...

At the risk of sounding like I agree with Catsmaninamerica, I do find it hard to see where the improvement will come from for Hawthorn, and they will need to improve, even the premiers Sydney will improve quite a bit. And it's not as if Clarkson has more than one gamelplan. I don't see them out of the eight though, more like a year like Collingwood had in 2012, thereabouts but overtaken by a few other teams.

Considering two thirds of our list is still under 26 (younger than the Cats lists but with nearly 8 more average games) you'd have to think there is still natural improvement there and if Brian Lake plays 20 games for the year we have to be a better team.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Finally. **** off back to your own board.

concur.

 

[dazbroncos]

Considering two thirds of our list is still under 26 you'd have to think there is still natural improvement there and if Brian Lake plays 20 games for the year we have to be a better team.

I feel the point is not so much the age of the side on the whole but the improvement that you need to get every year to stay level, let a lone go forward....

Age effects this as it is harder for older guys to keep improving. Thus, the talent coming though to take up the slack is massively important.
who takes up Hodge's slack, Mitchell if he slows, will Cyril be more consistent.. Buddy better with accuracy.... Can Lake make it 24 games, or even 15....

Go Catters

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Considering two thirds of our list is still under 26 (younger than the Cats lists but with nearly 8 more average games) you'd have to think there is still natural improvement there and if Brian Lake plays 20 games for the year we have to be a better team.

Surely the real concern for the Hawks is the GF fade out - you were a couple of goals up with 10 or so minutes left and just surrendered.
Sewell was the only one who stood up , the rest of your superstars went missing. Feck me , even a one legged Goodes was allowed to dominate and turn the game. There is no doubting your ability but I think Kennett picked the wrong Team when he spoke about mental fragility.
Mental strength in the crunch is your biggest issue IMO - lose one more GF with this group and you will become another St Kilda.

 

[fishtopher]

Surely the real concern for the Hawks is the GF fade out - you were a couple of goals up with 10 or so minutes left and just surrendered.
Sewell was the only one who stood up , the rest of your superstars went missing. Feck me , even a one legged Goodes was allowed to dominate and turn the game. There is no doubting your ability but I think Kennett picked the wrong Team when he spoke about mental fragility.
Mental strength in the crunch is your biggest issue IMO - lose one more GF with this group and you will become another St Kilda.

Spot on. Just got to hope that the team ticker is our biggest area of development and we learn from it like your boys did in 2009 (saying that with respect and not a dig by the way).

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Tom Schneider was looking like part of Hawthorn's next generation of midfielders, he won Box Hill's B&F...and in 2013 he's going to be playing in the EFL. What the hell is going on there?