Autopsy Cats lose to Saints by enough to end our 23 Finals hopes

[Partridge]

The injuries, the season preparations, the fitness levels of players have all been what killed us. Its why I hope they have a real, proper look at the strength and conditioning coaches. Look at the injury list week on week, sure you have freak ones like Stewart and SDK, but Esava now twice has done soft tissue, Hawkins who is usually ultra reliable does a soft tissue injury, the decision to hold off on Guthrie, guys like Smith and Tuohy looking a mile off the pace.

We were at times only behind WCE as the club who had lost the most experience to injury. And they are doing a full cleanout of their departments as a consequence.

No doubt some were age-related - anything that's soft tissue to a player over 30 isn't really a surprise, it's going to happen at some point. There were as you say the ones you can never expect in Stewart and DeKoning, but neither of those really crippled us. Stewart has only missed 1 game and amazingly DeKoning has only missed 4. It's more been there's been 1-2 different guys pretty frequently so continuity was hard to get.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Yeah absolutely - not sure what changed, but hopefully a full pre-season will get them back to their best

Part of the reason I’m optimistic for next season. There is a clear path to improvement, and I trust the group to re-set and hit the right standard.

 

[Vdubs]

Duncan's ball use the last few weeks has been back close to his best. He was struggling early in the year but the last few weeks he's been great and in our top handful of players.

Good, he has another year. Hope with a good rest and an earnest preseason, he can be consistent all year next year; after all, he's not in the Pendlebury vintage.

 

[iameviljez]

Not really - the graph showing results if margins under 11 points were reversed had Geelong on top of the ladder, prior to the St Kilda game.

A few games go the other way and we're positioned perfectly.

Injuries screwed us, but our footy wasn't all that bad.

I disagree, on the fact that I can’t think of many close games where I thought we were unlucky to lose.

I can think of a few - the Brisbane game, Carlton, GWS, Sydney and most recently Collingwood - where the margin honestly flattered us. We were nowhere near deserving of a win.

We are honestly miles off flag contention now. The draw and injuries killed off the eight, but even with that I do not think we are near top four.

 

[Mr Meow]

Good, he has another year. Hope with a good rest and an earnest preseason, he can be consistent all year next year; after all, he's not in the Pendlebury vintage.

You're better than comments like that last one. Completely pointless snipe.

 

[Vdubs]

You're better than comments like that last one. Completely pointless snipe.

Not A snipe at all. I'm agreeing he is contracted another year, and he has the ability to be consistent, and with our long hiatus, he should get there. Supersensitive??

 

[Mr Meow]

Not A snipe at all. I'm agreeing he is contracted another year, and he has the ability to be consistent, and with our long hiatus, he should get there. Supersensitive??

Nah it's just a weird comment to make - "not Pendlebury vintage". He's our Duncan vintage and despite his injury interruptions he put together a good year. Many, many others performed further below par relative to their expected output. And I'm including a lot of under 30s in that.

 

[Vdubs]

Nah it's just a weird comment to make - "not Pendlebury vintage". He's our Duncan vintage and despite his injury interruptions he put together a good year. Many, many others performed further below par relative to their expected output. And I'm including a lot of under 30s in that.

Incorrect. Vintage is an age thing.
Duncan is not at Pendles' age, several years off it. No reason he can't be elite, = excellent the whole season, as was Pendles again this season.

 

[The hands of stone]

'a little bit going on behind the scenes'....

Care to elaborate?

There's been some friction between some coaches and then between some players as far as some standards go.

Nothing too dramatic but it has been there all season and it may have taken a little edge off performance, last season was smooth sailing on all fronts.

 

[Cataholic]

Possessions maybe, quality, no

My eyes have told me the same thing.

I found myself holding my breath when he got the ball, whereas times past I KNEW he was safe with it.

 

[Mr Meow]

Incorrect. Vintage is an age thing.
Duncan is not at Pendles' age, several years off it. No reason he can't be elite, = excellent the whole season, as was Pendles again this season.

Okay sorry I misunderstood what you meant. I think plenty of players can be good in their twilight years without needing to be Pendlebury-good, that's all.

 

[Cataholic]

There's been some friction between some coaches and then between some players as far as some standards go.

Nothing too dramatic but it has been there all season and it may have taken a little edge off performance, last season was smooth sailing on all fronts.

Interesting.

No insight into the cause of the friction by chance?

Seems we might've slid back half a step to the old Scott v Scarlett days .....

I actually asked the question some weeks ago here about the possibility of tension within the group simply because I saw / sensed it with some body language etc......the group clearly weren't enjoying their footy anywhere near the 2022 level, even taking injuries into account.

 

[Vdubs]

Okay sorry I misunderstood what you meant. I think plenty of players can be good in their twilight years without needing to be Pendlebury-good, that's all.

My clumsy way of saying he is not old enough to suggest he is finished, but there were several games this year, imo, he looked slower, going through the motions, avoiding contact, and producing atypical clangers, which is way off his normal return. I was trying to say he is not at the ripe age of 36 (Pendles is older than Selwood)where you would think it's time up. Bizarrely, Pendles is defying age himself really well.

 

[Vdubs]

Interesting.

No insight into the cause of the friction by chance?

Seems we might've slid back half a step to the old Scott v Scarlett days .....

I actually asked the question some weeks ago here about the possibility of tension within the group simply because I saw / sensed it with some body language etc......the group clearly weren't enjoying their footy anywhere near the 2022 level, even taking injuries into account.

I did think Hawkins has looked a lot grumpier onfield than I've ever seen him in recent weeks.
Wonder what gets revealed in the washup.

 

[Mr Meow]

My clumsy way of saying he is not old enough to suggest he is finished, but there were several games this year, imo, he looked slower, going through the motions, avoiding contact, and producing atypical clangers, which is way off his normal return. I was trying to say he is not at the ripe age of 36 (Pendles is older than Selwood)where you would think it's time up. Bizarrely, Pendles is defying age himself really well.

Defensive running and (infrequent but still noticeable) atypical clangers were problem areas.

He still amassed about as many effective disposals as 2022 which was recognised as a good year. Likewise tackles and contested footy.

The games he struggled in were ones the whole side was dysfunctional - his skill set works in a team that has at least a modicum of rhythm. This is pretty common for veterans. As is not being as flawless as their 28 year old selves.

We would've been much worse (I know it's hard to imagine) without Duncan this year. Stewart would have effectively been our only prolific ball winner!

 

[Reg Hickey]

My clumsy way of saying he is not old enough to suggest he is finished, but there were several games this year, imo, he looked slower, going through the motions, avoiding contact, and producing atypical clangers, which is way off his normal return. I was trying to say he is not at the ripe age of 36 (Pendles is older than Selwood)where you would think it's time up. Bizarrely, Pendles is defying age himself really well.

Some players age better than others. Pendlebury is interesting because he's an inside mid and those guys tend to get beaten up over their careers, but on the other hand he's never relied on speed so if he's slowing down then it won't affect him that much.

 

[Vdubs]

Some players age better than others. Pendlebury is interesting because he's an inside mid and those guys tend to get beaten up over their careers, but on the other hand he's never relied on speed so if he's slowing down then it won't affect him that much.

Duncan also has never relied on speed; wonder if he had a preseason

 

[Cataholic]

I did think Hawkins has looked a lot grumpier onfield than I've ever seen him in recent weeks.
Wonder what gets revealed in the washup.

Last year the players were effervescent, and I know they were on a winning streak, but I believe that palpable enjoyment was partially responsible for the streak.......

On the other hand, I know the rolling injuries could've impacted the sense of enjoyment, but even that considered, the playing group this year seemed subdued to me.....the enjoyment simply wasn't there to anywhere near the same extent.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Duncan just needed match play, when you have an interrupted pre season then miss a month of footy right in the middle of the season you are always going to need time to come good again, dont get how people expect a guy to miss months of footy and training and immediately play at their best all the time.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

No retirement announcements today. There needs to be a couple, IMO.

 

[Mr Meow]

Duncan also has never relied on speed; wonder if he had a preseason

He won just as much footy. With the side not creating as much space or possession avenues (and being exposed to pressure) essentially everybody's ball use suffered this year. Yet only Duncan has been vilified for it when he's still been out leading EFFECTIVE disposal winner every other week.

 

[Mr Meow]

Some players age better than others. Pendlebury is interesting because he's an inside mid and those guys tend to get beaten up over their careers, but on the other hand he's never relied on speed so if he's slowing down then it won't affect him that much.

Even Pendlebury compared to his old self is prone to more errors and gets caught or hurried at times. His old standard was ridiculous. It happens and it's been noticeable in a few of the games where Collingwood were not firing. These are talented players with weapons but they can't do it all anymore. You create a system to get the best out of them.

 

[Boxhead_31]

With Cameron and Hawkins likely outs this week, could we see The Flight of the Phoenix?

 

[Vdubs]

He won just as much footy. With the side not creating as much space or possession avenues (and being exposed to pressure) essentially everybody's ball use suffered this year. Yet only Duncan has been vilified for it when he's still been out leading EFFECTIVE disposal winner every other week.

He should have been our premiere mid this year, or hbf, in the absences of CGuthrie, Selwood and Danger- too often. He possibly was. Much is expected of those with much talent and history, and despite the stats, perception from my pov was that he was below HIS best. I go to games with opposition supporters and more than once, it was asked, "what's happened to him."
We definitely would have been worse without him.
Is he being vilified?
He's had a better season than Danger, fwiw.

 

[Mr Meow]

He should have been our premiere mid this year, or hbf, in the absences of CGuthrie, Selwood and Danger- too often. He possibly was. Much is expected of those with much talent and history, and despite the stats, perception from my pov was that he was below HIS best. I go to games with opposition supporters and more than once, it was asked, "what's happened to him."
We definitely would have been worse without him.
Is he being vilified?
He's had a better season than Danger, fwiw.

My honest opinion is that if a player fluffs a kick or two early that's people's minds made up for the game. Or if your two worst efforts look really really silly, 20 decent ones just aren't going to redeem them in the eyes of a harsh critic frustrated at a struggling team. I even thought about calling it Duncan Syndrome this year.

This phenomenom would even carry over from one match to the next. Thus when Mitch smoothed out people needed to see 4 or 5 flawless games. He's good but he is no longer flawless. The way he hobbles around at times is ugly - "but he still picked up 25 useful disposals" , "I don't care, he looked like a lame mule doing it".

In reality 2023 Duncan once he hit his groove was the 2022 version but in a poor side.