Roast My feelings about Hawthorn losing the 2012 Grand Final

[Moley Russels Wart]

Mental strength in the crunch is your biggest issue IMO - lose one more GF with this group and you will become another St Kilda.

I don't really agree with this, I think being unable to run games out is more of a fitness issue, in that they have some key players shouldering too much load and when they tire the output of the team just falls off a cliff. This falls on Clarkson to build a game plan that not only maximises all the stars input but also distributes the load across 18 players, and also have players that can play multiple roles and rotate through them. So far the only move Clarko seems to have is to move Burgoyne into the centre when things aren't going well (in 2008 he had the same one move but with Hodge)

 

[Senatorguesty]

It was hardly abuse and saying a team who played off on the big day last year and many will be predicting to again be on top of the ladder come September won't make the eight is long way off being perfectly unexceptionable. You have given my second "word for the day" though, so cheers for that.

What happened last time you made a grand final?

 

[Moley Russels Wart]

What happened last time you made a grand final?

Oh man, poor phrasing....

I think this will be different though, they won't have a hangover from being too pleased with themselves, as Wallsy put it, but will be fired up to atone, which will get them through the first couple of months but it won't last the whole season

 

[fishtopher]

Tom Schneider was looking like part of Hawthorn's next generation of midfielders, he won Box Hill's B&F...and in 2013 he's going to be playing in the EFL. What the hell is going on there?

Was a strange one that a lot of people (not necessarily in the know) weren't happy with. Probably too one paced which is where our midfield can fall down at times. What makes it even stranger was picking up Simpkin from you guys who was almost a doppleganger for Schneider in terms of their careers.

 

[Partridge]

Considering two thirds of our list is still under 26 (younger than the Cats lists but with nearly 8 more average games) you'd have to think there is still natural improvement there and if Brian Lake plays 20 games for the year we have to be a better team.

Depends which Lake turns up. If you get the 2009 version absolutely you'll be a better team. If you get the 2011 version you'll be worse.

 

[witsend]

I'm tipping they'll get BL 2009 against the Suns, GWS, PA and the Demons and BL 2011 against everyone else.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Spot on. Just got to hope that the team ticker is our biggest area of development and we learn from it like your boys did in 2009 (saying that with respect and not a dig by the way).

No offence taken , it's a very valid comparison.
Our 2009 & 2011 efforts really cemented a paradigm change from the talented but perennial bridesmaids sides from the 90's. The group just knew ( hopefully applies to current crop as well) how to win and hang tough when it mattered , hence the 3 flags.
Time will tell if the Hawks have the fortitude to make amends for 2012.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I don't really agree with this, I think being unable to run games out is more of a fitness issue, in that they have some key players shouldering too much load and when they tire the output of the team just falls off a cliff. )

Fair call but I don't think it's the core issue. Hawks have an appalling winning % of around 35% when games are decided by < 12 points over the last 4 years or so. By comparison Geelong and Collingwood are around 65-70%.
I think they are very vulnerable in the close ones and lack the clutch players who can ice the game.

 

[catswhiskers]

Tom Schneider was looking like part of Hawthorn's next generation of midfielders, he won Box Hill's B&F...and in 2013 he's going to be playing in the EFL. What the hell is going on there?

I was also surprised the big tall blond (and young) ruckman went as well. McCauley was it? He played very well against us in round 2. Took a few nice marks and looked a possible.

 

[Moley Russels Wart]

Fair call but I don't think it's the core issue. Hawks have an appalling winning % of around 35% when games are decided by < 12 points over the last 4 years or so. By comparison Geelong and Collingwood are around 65-70%.
I think they are very vulnerable in the close ones and lack the clutch players who can ice the game.

I agree with that, probably the only clutch players they have are Mitchell Hodge and Burgoyne. However I differentiate that lack of ability/skill/experience from being mentally weak. They just aren't well practised in icing games.

And as far as the stats, what are they like for Hawthorn excluding the Geelong games? Not fair if you have a team that toys with you

 

[fishtopher]

I was also surprised the big tall blond (and young) ruckman went as well. McCauley was it? He played very well against us in round 2. Took a few nice marks and looked a possible.

McCauley retired. Due to shoulder I think.

I agree with that, probably the only clutch players they have are Mitchell Hodge and Burgoyne. However I differentiate that lack of ability/skill/experience from being mentally weak. They just aren't well practised in icing games.

And as far as the stats, what are they like for Hawthorn excluding the Geelong games? Not fair if you have a team that toys with you

No Comment. *and then he swam away with his tail between his fins.

 

[fishtopher]

I was also surprised the big tall blond (and young) ruckman went as well. McCauley was it? He played very well against us in round 2. Took a few nice marks and looked a possible.

McCauley retired. Due to shoulder issues I think. Was a pity.

I agree with that, probably the only clutch players they have are Mitchell Hodge and Burgoyne. However I differentiate that lack of ability/skill/experience from being mentally weak. They just aren't well practised in icing games.

And as far as the stats, what are they like for Hawthorn excluding the Geelong games? Not fair if you have a team that toys with you

No Comment. *and he swims away with his tail between his fins.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I agree with that, probably the only clutch players they have are Mitchell Hodge and Burgoyne. However I differentiate that lack of ability/skill/experience from being mentally weak. They just aren't well practised in icing games.

And as far as the stats, what are they like for Hawthorn excluding the Geelong games? Not fair if you have a team that toys with you

Can't exclude these games , it would spoil our fun !!

As far as their ability to rebound from 2012 - time will tell I guess............

 

[WWSD]

Can't exclude these games , it would spoil our fun !!

As far as their ability to rebound from 2012 - time will tell I guess............

I reckon the Grand Final loss will go one of two ways in my opinion. It will either motivate us and we go one step better, or it will deflate us and our confidence and we go backwards.

That first four weeks for us will be very telling and will define our season. If we are 2-2, I'll be happy with that, 3-1 I'll be over the moon. However if we are 1-3 we are in for a long, long season.

 

[vealesy]

I reckon the Grand Final loss will go one of two ways in my opinion. It will either motivate us and we go one step better, or it will deflate us and our confidence and we go backwards.

That first four weeks for us will be very telling and will define our season. If we are 2-2, I'll be happy with that, 3-1 I'll be over the moon. However if we are 1-3 we are in for a long, long season.

Theres a third way, you do exactly the same thing next year and choke in a grand final.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I reckon the Grand Final loss will go one of two ways in my opinion. It will either motivate us and we go one step better, or it will deflate us and our confidence and we go backwards.

That first four weeks for us will be very telling and will define our season. If we are 2-2, I'll be happy with that, 3-1 I'll be over the moon. However if we are 1-3 we are in for a long, long season.

It's just so , so hard to get there and when you win it's all worth it plus so much more.
When you lose all the hard work and effort must seem so wasted , the disappointment so intense.

The Hawks are very , very talented but so were the Saints. 09 was meritorious , the drawn GF - WTF? , then the disappointing loss , then the abyss.
It's only one GF loss but another one this season and the Hawks will so the same way , the abyss.

 

[you pick one]

Considering two thirds of our list is still under 26 (younger than the Cats lists but with nearly 8 more average games) you'd have to think there is still natural improvement there and if Brian Lake plays 20 games for the year we have to be a better team.

Are you sure of that,footy Fan has the Cats 24 years and 80 days average to the Hawks 24 years and 126 days both with 40 senior players.the Cats still younger if you add rookies.

 

[you pick one]

Fair enough SJ, but in this particular case (after the initial harmless banter), it was the Hawthorn poster who started in with the abuse in post #644, describing a perfectly unexceptionable post as "dribbling....garbage". To which the original poster, not surprisingly, responded in kind, etc., etc.

I see both sides here Fred,the boot on the other foot that sort of post would more than likely draw a card from Echols, because they are suffering and still a bit raw.
But here with 50% of the last 6 Premierships in the trophy cabinet and nothing to prove we really don't have to do anything other than present a straight bat.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Well it looks like they have a year of Cloke/Ablett speculation ahead. Buddy has one foot out the door. Rabble. Will
Be 0-4 after the First month. And honestly, it's karma. For Jeff's comments, for flogs like fishtopher and for stealing the one premiership their window has yielded.

Id like to say, suck it hawks.

 

[manboob]

"Hawthorn stunned as Lance ‘Buddy' Franklin suspends contract talks until end of season"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...il-end-of-season/story-e6frf9jf-1226567061009

 

[Glassjaw]

Pickers strikes again!!

 

[FredLeDeux]

"Hawthorn stunned as Lance ‘Buddy' Franklin suspends contract talks until end of season"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...il-end-of-season/story-e6frf9jf-1226567061009

Pickers strikes again!!

According to Pickers "He said he didn't want the distraction of a contract...."
Must be a heck of a distraction, these contracts.

 

[Grizzly_82]

I suspect that not only if the hawks don't make the grand final and avenge the '12 loss they will fall into an abyss. This awill be compounded with the loss of Buddy, hard to seem them pick themselves up if the two things happen some bleak years ahead for the hawks fans.

In hindsight was topping up with recycled players a terrible move with no future kids to replace their ageing stars and Buddy?

 

[FredLeDeux]

I suspect that not only if the hawks don't make the grand final and avenge the '12 loss they will fall into an abyss. This awill be compounded with the loss of Buddy, hard to seem them pick themselves up if the two things happen some bleak years ahead for the hawks fans.

In hindsight was topping up with recycled players a terrible move with no future kids to replace their ageing stars and Buddy?

Well, you can't judge the merits of a decision in hindsight, only at the time it was made.
But everyone, even Hawks fans, knew it was a terribly shortsighted decision when it was made, a desperate effort to paper over the cracks before they hit the Geriatric Wall.

 

[catswhiskers]

Buddy must be very confident he will enjoy another injury free year!