List Mgmt. Nick Bowen: Trade Scott Thompson, Lachlan Hansen, Lindsay Thomas or Shaun Atley

[Horizons_00]

Trading players isn't the real answer

A totally new and fresh environment is the answer. Massive clean out of the coaching staff

Then we will see what our players are capable of

 

[Only Forwards]

Yes we have issues with the balance of the list.

Yes we probably need to trade.

I am fundamentally against a slash and burn approach. Honestly IDGAF if Brad is entering the last year in his contract and wants to go all out for a flag before Boomer et al retire. To slash an burn the list in the hope that we trade and draft everything we need to complete the list to win a grand final next year is pure f***ing lunacy.

So right now we are a certain % shot at winning a flag next year, Personally I think it is unlikely but there is a shot. Say we go down a road of making some big calls on potential players to get them in an we for all intents and purposes lifft the % shot we have at winning the flag.

That % is still going to be relatively low at winning the flag, because now what we would have is a core of players who have been shown to melt and a group of new players and who knows how well or how quickly they would gel together.

The above plan is low % football and bordering on blatant stupidity.

2 trades, maybe 3, only playerss from positions we have truly covers (probably an inside midfielder) no draft picks unless it is for someone who has shown capability of becoming a gun (Treloar).

The 2015 offseason will be a dangerous place for the future of the club if we run riot making short sighted trades in the hope of a flag before Boomer has gone the outcome is either going to be a miracle and I am worng or it will be bad, really bad. The window for Bomer and a second flag has shut we're not hard enough now and I don't see us being hard enough to win the whole lot within 12 months.

 

[Moti]

We need run and class in the middle. Whatever way we can add that should be looked at closely. However, we don't want to trade one strength for another, doesn't make sense. The club has been slow to do this previously (hi Hamish) while other clubs make the tough calls and thrive. The Pies, Saints, Bulldogs all have at least 6 extra running players on their list that can play senior footy. We can't get that in a year but we can sure try to add as much as possible.

 

[HBFlanker]

Trading is not the answer in my opinion, Its the blooding of our youth, which as this article explains, we have in abundance.

At the end of this year we could potentially lose Petrie, Firrito, Grima, Mcmahon, Wells, Adams, Thats 6 players on top of whoever we delist (McKenzie, Preuss/Currie, Warren)

Thats a big turnover. Out of the 6 i have named realistically 4 will go, maybe saving Petrie and Wells. The others are 100% gone. But if scott has the balls to make the hard calls on Petrie and Wells then im all for it. Maybe even throw Waite in the mix.

Its not all doom and gloom, we have a quality young list with probably 1 or 2 too many older players.

 

[Horizons_00]

Bringing new players into this environment is not going to help at all

Varcoe did nothing with his last year at Geelong and bam under a new team and environment he is playing every game like its his last

I bet zeebs, swallow or atley would be a totally different player under a new environment

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Good article, misses the point though which is that the standards set by the coaching staff and the player development programs need to be properly looked at. There's no point trading players for other players/picks and bringing them into the same crappy environment.

 

[Only Forwards]

atley would be a totally different player under a new environment

I agree with this, and I will spew if we short sightedly get rid of him rather than change the enviornment at the club.

This kid has pace to burn, and a s**t tonne of talent and we are squandering it.

So many being allowed to under perform.

 

[utility]

At the end of this year we could potentially lose Petrie, Firrito, Grima, Mcmahon, Wells, Adams, Thats 6 players on top of whoever we delist (McKenzie, Preuss/Currie, Warren)

Petrie - would be a loss but opens the door for Daw, Black and others.
Firrito - confident we could cover him.
Grima - hasn't played
McMahon - has barely played a game
Wells - hasn't played
Adams - has he played this year?

All up we'd lose depth but not much else. Petrie has question marks about standing up under pressure (i.e., passing off instead of kicking for goal) and Wells' body is just about shot.

 

[Petrie4PM]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-kangaroos?year=2015&sby=13

Were going to lose alot of experience in games through delistings and retirments end of year. We need to fill some holes in trade period. Dixon & Motlop should be on hit list.

Does Brad McKenzie have any currency? How much are players like him being paid to run around in the VFL?

So frustrating watching north fade in and out.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Trade two out this year and two more out next year from the senior group. They have led us nowhere so we should use their currency to bolster our list for the next decade. Keep Atley and bring in a whole new coaching and development team.

 

[Passmore]

I agree with this, and I will spew if we short sightedly get rid of him rather than change the enviornment at the club.

This kid has pace to burn, and a s**t tonne of talent and we are squandering it.

So many being allowed to under perform.

Yep. To me, he is the poster boy for what is happening at the club.

If he was drafted and developed at, say, Collingwood or Hawthorn he'd be a superstar. At North he's an indecisive mess. Unfortunately I can see McDonald heading down the same path. What happened to that dynamic kid from the U18's and VFL? Remember the one with the booming left foot who could snag a goal from the middle of North Port Oval? Now he's forever looking sideways and missing targets 15m away.

Exhibits A and B as to why the current coaching staff should be cleared out. I rest my case your honour. I could go on for hours if need be.....

 

[AGC]

I like the sentiment of the article in theory, and in most eras it makes sense.

Firstly, I don't think we've got enough trade pieces. The players listed above (despite how we overrate them) are late first rounders/early second rounders (Remember our calls to Trade HMAC we'll get a pick 10 - and we ended up getting some mid-2nd rounder that we used on Ben Jacobs - a good honest player. The thing is that you just get decent enough players, but nobody that's going make a huge difference to a flag tilt - unless we shoot the lights out of the draft. The Pies shipped Shaw, Beams, Thomas etc off to get the De Goey's. We don't have that. The only guy off Nick's list that would command a first rounder is LT (and Thompson if he returned to his AA form)

Secondly, I just worry that even if we do regenerate, our core youth players (under 25 etc) won't be good enough to compete with the GWS/GC (if they get their head together) and even the Dogs core youth.
We'll end up regenerating a list, and end up like the Dogs circa 09. Decent young players, but never going to get anywhere - make a few prelims and be exciting etc.

The focus needs to firstly be on development. Nick says the current North Melbourne side can't win the flag - I disagree on talent alone.
Atley, Basti, LMAC, Black (etc) have all stagnated, but each individually have shown that they can play footy - and serious questions need to be asked on our entire coaching staff. How can Sydney develop young guys like Rampe and Cunningham, and we need to translate that model into North. I'm willing to concede that a lot of these guys had interuppted pre-seasons that may be impacting their physical capacity, but the mental side of our game needs serious work.
If this core group of players can really start to develop, and guys like EVW, Neilson etc can push to be good players- our list is going to look a lot better. If the faith is that they're not good enough - then it's going to be a lot more than a mini-rebuild.
It'll be 6-7 years of pain.

Where we need to improve is cleaning out older senior players that aren't up to it anymore, and targeting free-agency to replace these players - preferably ones that we can scout as having good strong leadership capabilities (Nathan Jones types). Not with older senior players, but having a good look around the comp at good young/middle aged players - and throwing a shittone of cash at them. Cleaning out the list of McMahons, Spuds, (even Drew) and replacing them with young guys that are just as capable. Then hitting free agency hard to get a Bruce/Treloar.

 

[chrissy]

Excellent article by Nick. Some home truths told there.

I think we should definitely trade someone maybe Swallow but also think we need to pick up a mature age recruit with speed and grit.

I have been singing this guys praises for years and he continues to impress. He won best & fairest at under 18 level at eastern ranges all while being captain. He's a fitness fanatic training every night on his own at his nearby park. Played for Frankston last year and won their best & fairest. Probably leading their best & fairest again this year. He has speed on the outside, excellent tackler, skills, makes guys better around him. At 20 years old is ready to go. Just needs an opportunity. Exactly the guy we need. Been in the best players 7 of 11 games this year for Frankston all in a team that gets thumped every week.

I'd prefer that only North can pick him up but a guy that has worked has hard as him deserves a chance.

Let me guess , the experts say his too small , looks like Libba Snr working his way in those pack .

 

[jess_1804]

Yep. To me, he is the poster boy for what is happening at the club.

If he was drafted and developed at, say, Collingwood or Hawthorn he'd be a superstar. At North he's an indecisive mess. Unfortunately I can see McDonald heading down the same path. What happened to that dynamic kid from the U18's and VFL? Remember the one with the booming left foot who could snag a goal from the middle of North Port Oval? Now he's forever looking sideways and missing targets 15m away.

Exhibits A and B as to why the current coaching staff should be cleared out. I rest my case your honour. I could go on for hours if need be.....

I wonder if playing and developing them both as half back flankers has been a hindrance? From memory both played their junior footy as midfielders, and should probably be playing the same position in the AFL. While I understand the need to develop their defensive skills, it seems to have cost them both their natural attributes. The only player I remember being played and developed as a midfielder (the position he was drafted from) recently is Fordham.

 

[HBFlanker]

Looking at our list now, Black leaving would be a huge blow. Doesn't matter how his form is at the moment. He is a genuine froward which we need to keep

 

[Only Forwards]

Looking at our list now, Black leaving would be a huge blow. Doesn't matter how his form is at the moment. He is a genuine froward which we need to keep

Trading him would be lunacy.

 

[lockheed]

Yeah. No. Offering up players for trade would be one of the fastest ways to completely demoralise the entire playing group (and they're already most of the way there). Plus the odds of us getting a first round pick for any of those players is fairly average - maybe one for Lindsay. That'd be it. We definitely need to make some changes, but tossing out quality players to chase mediocre picks is not one of them.

This board has far too many people who think calls of 'trade the captain' and 'tank for picks' are good ones. If you ask me, suggesting our great club should even consider either of those things is more of a disgrace than anything our players have put up on the field so far this year (and those efforts take some beating).

Our great club (this, I wholeheartedly endorse) hasn't been great on the field since 1999. At best we've teased, at worst we've been a poorly managed, disorganised disaster, and we have been for a large part of our last 15 years.

Other clubs are able to trade out talent; why are we different?

The only possible good thing that can come out of last weekend, is that the powers that be realise the maintaining the status quo will only serve to insure that we continue to serve up the same old rubbish. We do need to regenerate our list, and we somehow have to find a way to develop the undoubted talent that we have.

 

[jclei]

If our supporters are saying trade 2 backs, one of our only quick players and our most dangerous forward of the last 3 years then our fan base is dumber than I thought.

I'm not saying the actual players Nick mentioned but I do believe a mini rebuild is required.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Rooboy 96]

I like the sentiment of the article in theory, and in most eras it makes sense.

Firstly, I don't think we've got enough trade pieces. The players listed above (despite how we overrate them) are late first rounders/early second rounders (Remember our calls to Trade HMAC we'll get a pick 10 - and we ended up getting some mid-2nd rounder that we used on Ben Jacobs - a good honest player. The thing is that you just get decent enough players, but nobody that's going make a huge difference to a flag tilt - unless we shoot the lights out of the draft. The Pies shipped Shaw, Beams, Thomas etc off to get the De Goey's. We don't have that. The only guy off Nick's list that would command a first rounder is LT (and Thompson if he returned to his AA form)

Secondly, I just worry that even if we do regenerate, our core youth players (under 25 etc) won't be good enough to compete with the GWS/GC (if they get their head together) and even the Dogs core youth.
We'll end up regenerating a list, and end up like the Dogs circa 09. Decent young players, but never going to get anywhere - make a few prelims and be exciting etc.

The focus needs to firstly be on development. Nick says the current North Melbourne side can't win the flag - I disagree on talent alone.
Atley, Basti, LMAC, Black (etc) have all stagnated, but each individually have shown that they can play footy - and serious questions need to be asked on our entire coaching staff. How can Sydney develop young guys like Rampe and Cunningham, and we need to translate that model into North. I'm willing to concede that a lot of these guys had interuppted pre-seasons that may be impacting their physical capacity, but the mental side of our game needs serious work.
If this core group of players can really start to develop, and guys like EVW, Neilson etc can push to be good players- our list is going to look a lot better. If the faith is that they're not good enough - then it's going to be a lot more than a mini-rebuild.
It'll be 6-7 years of pain.

Where we need to improve is cleaning out older senior players that aren't up to it anymore, and targeting free-agency to replace these players - preferably ones that we can scout as having good strong leadership capabilities (Nathan Jones types). Not with older senior players, but having a good look around the comp at good young/middle aged players - and throwing a shittone of cash at them. Cleaning out the list of McMahons, Spuds, (even Drew) and replacing them with young guys that are just as capable. Then hitting free agency hard to get a Bruce/Treloar.

the way we constantly trade players that were taken with first round picks or have AA potential for mid to late second round picks, makes me extremely nervous about trading any player out.

 

[Dirty_11]

Atley I'd keep. Thomas as well.

Hansen and Thompson, sure.

I'd trade both if the price was right. I would add Brown as an untouchable.

 

[Marstermind]

I agree that we need to trade into the top end of the draft and I'm happy with who Nick puts forward for sale and who he excludes. But what evidence do we have that players selected with high draft picks turn into high quality players at NMFC? None. Because they don't become ingrained in a culture of excellence, high standards and development. So yeah, trade away but unless we go the whole hog and look at all levels of the club then it will be futile.

 

[Dirty_11]

He forgot the most glaringly obvious problem at the club. Probably because he has to interview him twice a week. Talent means nothing if it can't be developed.

 

[Shinbonermagic]

North need change, we need to make changes, we need a culture change, a new voice to be heard,we need someone to come in and clean up this mess, we need someone to look at our list and say that's what we need. There are certain players on our list who have stagnated but could be outright champions if they only had a coach who could get the best out of them.

 

[Mcarcherey]

avg age is 24.9 and take out boomer it's 24.7

not sure where he's getting his figures from......

Too early to make such calls but journo's got to make a $. but trading Thompson out means we need to get another fullback anyway, likewise with Hansen as a loose man in defense - he's essential. Atley? no value, all we'd get is another Atley equivalent in return.

Earlier this season Richmond looked like it wasn't going anywhere and now they're the darlings of the AFL.

 

[Massive Unit]

Meh, that really isn't the burning issue. Half of our players never hit the VFL and those players are more of the problem.

The pass mark for getting consistent games at our club is way too low, you should be cruising at a 6/10 to get regular game time, but when required push your game to the 8-9 mark, a lot of our players can cruise 40% or lower which isn't good enough and their base skill level doesn't afford them that magnitude of drop off while allowing us to be a strong team. Our guys are also incapable of flicking the switch on from cruise mode.

I make absolutely no sense of this. You're talking about guys being paid significant rewards to train FULL TIME as athletes. I don't want to see our guys cruising at 60% capacity. Every attack on the ball (offensively or defensively) should be at 100% of current capacity. This includes running back to clog up space in the opposition forward line or more importantly, ensuring the ball remains in our forward 50.

Once you introduce the mindset that anything less than 100% effort is ok, you're f***ed! If we can't compete at a high workrate for long enough periods, then I would suggest that our fitness and conditioning guys need to be looked at.