NSW/QLD Exclusive Draft Options

[Groo2]

They're not "discriminated against". If you can't see the romance behind F/S and what it brings to the game then ...

If you cant see the benefits the northern academies bring to the game then....

 

[L_W_P]

They're not "discriminated against". If you can't see the romance behind F/S and what it brings to the game then ...

I see the romance but romance =/= fair.

And players are discriminated against.

Marc Murphy could've gone to Brisbane but chose the draft.

Travis Cloke could've picked Richmond or the Pies.

Joe Daniher was a number 1 pick that could choose Sydney or Essendon.

Unless your father has played 100 games for an AFL club you don't get a say in where you are drafted. You are denied a choice based on your family history.

That is the very definition of discrimination.

 

[Colonial]

I think I've found where you got your figures



Unfortunately it doesn't appear the figures have allowed for the fine print.

"payments to clubs included amounts for ground buyout agreements, distribution of the AFL's signage at Etihad stadium, prizemoney, travel subsidies and promotional funding to help clubs develope the game around Australia"

and doesn't include things like

"Establishment funding for Greater Western Sydney totalling $22.2 million."

Without knowing what the payments are for those figures lose relevance.

Is that so...
Where does it say the amount? Or what it is spent on.

 

[Mateyman]

If you cant see the benefits the northern academies bring to the game then....

One gives select clubs advantages which the other clubs can't hope to have. The other is a random selection process allowed to all clubs from which they will all benefit eventually. I don't even understand why they are being compared as they are completely different.

 

[Mateyman]

I see the romance but romance =/= fair.

And players are discriminated against.

Marc Murphy could've gone to Brisbane but chose the draft.

Travis Cloke could've picked Richmond or the Pies.

Joe Daniher was a number 1 pick that could choose Sydney or Essendon.

Unless your father has played 100 games for an AFL club you don't get a say in where you are drafted. You are denied a choice based on your family history.

That is the very definition of discrimination.

How is it unfair except in the very short term when all clubs will eventually benefit?
That's also like arguing the "Cola" is "discrimination". It is using a technical and pretty stretched meaning of the word really.

 

[Groo2]

One gives select clubs advantages which the other clubs can't hope to have. The other is a random selection process allowed to all clubs from which they will all benefit eventually. I don't even understand why they are being compared as they are completely different.

So you can't see the benefit the academies bring to the game (as a whole) then...... Try for a moment to forget about what advantage the northern clubs get, the bottom line is the academies are good for the game. I have mentioned elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here. The AFL signed a long term deal to play the GF at the MCG (which just happens to be Collingwood's home ground), this is clearly unfair, but a decision made for the good of the game. Every year the draw is drafted, fairness takes a backseat to what is good for the game.

 

[Mateyman]

So you can't see the benefit the academies bring to the game (as a whole) then...... Try for a moment to forget about what advantage the northern clubs get, the bottom line is the academies are good for the game. I have mentioned elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here. The AFL signed a long term deal to play the GF at the MCG (which just happens to be Collingwood's home ground), this is clearly unfair, but a decision made for the good of the game. Every year the draw is drafted, fairness takes a backseat to what is good for the game.

I have already said I see the potential benefit to the game. The GF in Melbourne is a tiny advantage compared to large draft concessions. Anyway, why have an unfair system which is good for the game, when you could easily change it to a fair system which is good for the game?

 

[Groo2]

I have already said I see the potential benefit to the game. The GF in Melbourne is a tiny advantage compared to large draft concessions. Anyway, why have an unfair system which is good for the game, when you could easily change it to a fair system which is good for the game?

I think you are underestimating one and overestimating the other, but none the less I am not sure you could easily change it to a "fair system" whilst keeping the full benefits. But if you could then sure. You need to remember that the Lions (for example) are competing with the Bronco's, Roar etc for the best kids in their area of Qld. Bronco's and Roar can offer a career path that allows a kid to stay in their home state whilst competing at an elite level, I assume you are proposing to take that option away from a Queensland kid wanting to play AFL - if so there is a good chance they will be lost to the game. That threat does not exist to the same extent in Vic SA and WA at this point in time (may change in the next 10 - 20 years).

 

[Mateyman]

I think you are underestimating one and overestimating the other, but none the less I am not sure you could easily change it to a "fair system" whilst keeping the full benefits. But if you could then sure. You need to remember that the Lions (for example) are competing with the Bronco's, Roar etc for the best kids in their area of Qld. Bronco's and Roar can offer a career path that allows a kid to stay in their home state whilst competing at an elite level, I assume you are proposing to take that option away from a Queensland kid wanting to play AFL - if so there is a good chance they will be lost to the game. That threat does not exist to the same extent in Vic SA and WA at this point in time (may change in the next 10 - 20 years).

We are talking about 14-16 year olds. I don't think an elite career path only in their home state is the first thing on their minds when choosing, However, I think that giving the northern clubs first dibs is a good idea, except it would be good to somehow make them pay close to market value. Bidding system is adequate after a prospect is not bid on in the first round though IMO. Only problem is really the Heeney's in my eyes.

 

[Groo2]

We are talking about 14-16 year olds. I don't think an elite career path only in their home state is the first thing on their minds when choosing, However, I think that giving the northern clubs first dibs is a good idea, except it would be good to somehow make them pay close to market value. Bidding system is adequate after a prospect is not bid on in the first round though IMO. Only problem is really the Heeney's in my eyes.

Pretty much agree with that. Cheers - good to have a civil discussion on the topic, I'm going to bed now

 

[Bender571]

Is that so...
Where does it say the amount? Or what it is spent on.

Each annual report has a "payments to clubs" section, usually in the financial section.

The payments are broken down to each club with the fine print I mentioned before.

This is from the 2011 report

 

[momentbymoment]

Interstate clubs' record in the GF is enough to see this is not really much of an advantage at all. This is also more or less the only advantage Vic teams get
(Inb4 "travel", before interstate supporters realise that they get to play "away" teams every second week while Vic teams do not. (Although I admit it may make a tiny difference to the Western teams and maybe Brisbane's long term ability to recover))

Sydney's record in the Academies is not really much advantage either.

Brandon Jack after 5 years.

 

[theta]

Just a few facts to put a little context into the academy discussions.


In the past 10 years, only 17 NSW-based players have been selected in the National Draft.

Only six AFL clubs have been involved in drafting these 17 players over this 10-year period.

Of these, seven were compulsory zone selections for the GWS Giants.

In total these players have played 408 AFL games, at an average of 24 per player.

Brandon Jack is the only player from the Swans' Academy to play in the AFL to date for a total of 14 games.

Heeney was maybe a 1st round pick a couple of months ago, then some baseless hype pushed him to maybe a pick 10 or so, then a week later he's a possible top 5. This happened at the same time as eddie attacked sydney. What a coincidence. Heeney is a young division 2 player ffs. Is he talented? Yes, but no more than 20 other players his age around the country, some of which have been playing against men for a couple of years and actually grew up playing the game.

Mills on the other hand is no joke, but it is way too early to be making calls on draft positions and player values for 2015. Potential 1st rounders change massively every 12 months, and once picked usually are way off the mark! Again, there are 20 other guys that can talked about in his age bracket.

IMO Dunkley should not even be talked about and the F/S system should not even be in question. It has nothing to do with academies.

Now that COLA is off the table Eddie has pissed in everyones ear and told them its raining cheats and liars in Sydney, and as usual WAY too many bigfooty readers are not only beleiving him, they are lapping it up in some kind of fear-mongering, circle-jerking strokefest.

Enjoy your footy ffs and stop buying into the media mogul bs of soap operas and false controversies. The Mark Robinson's, Craig Hutchinson's and Damien Barrett's of the world are playing you for fools. Then again, if you're buying into it, maybe you are.

WHATSTHAT? THEFOOTYSHOWISON? Quick, better record it fellas.

 

[Pharaoh]

Fortunately the clubs and the AFL will collectively decide what's fair, not some biased Sydney supporter. There are MANY WAYS to fund AFL talent development in the northern states and they don't require certain clubs to enjoy a monopoly on that talent. Sanity will prevail in the end to maintain integrity of the draft.

 

[Colonial]

Each annual report has a "payments to clubs" section, usually in the financial section.

The payments are broken down to each club with the fine print I mentioned before.

This is from the 2011 report

Hmmm very interesting. It looks that we received 22mil in total that year. BUT 10 of that was for stadium upgrades so technically didnt recieve that much more, about 2 mill, than the other clubs.

I could be wrong but I am on a mobile so cant check till later. Think when I get home will get all the details and post it on the footy industry Giants "bashing" thread.
Cheers

 

[AliceCat]

Heeney was maybe a 1st round pick a couple of months ago, then some baseless hype pushed him to maybe a pick 10 or so, then a week later he's a possible top 5. This happened at the same time as eddie attacked sydney. What a coincidence. Heeney is a young division 2 player ffs. Is he talented? Yes, but no more than 20 other players his age around the country, some of which have been playing against men for a couple of years and actually grew up playing the game.

Enjoy your footy ffs and stop buying into the media mogul bs of soap operas and false controversies. The Mark Robinson's, Craig Hutchinson's and Damien Barrett's of the world are playing you for fools. Then again, if you're buying into it, maybe you are.

Well said…have no idea why basically everyone in the footy world is so quick to believe everything Eddie says!..why are people so gulable!

Even if Heeney goes on to be an awesome player the fact that he is touted as a top10 doesn't guarantee this. IMO top draft picks are meaning less and less in the AFL, its how these players are developed once they arrive at their respective clubs.

Who had more first round draft picks when GWS played Carlton earlier this year??? The Answer is Carlton!!! All those draft picks went really well for them..ha

 

[TheGong]

Fortunately the clubs and the AFL will collectively decide what's fair, not some biased Sydney supporter. There are MANY WAYS to fund AFL talent development in the northern states and they don't require certain clubs to enjoy a monopoly on that talent. Sanity will prevail in the end to maintain integrity of the draft.

Arrgh FFS!!!!

This what occured when the academies were first set up. When all clubs had input to and agreed on the Academy concept and rules. When the AFL realised that the lack of develpoment in the northern states has set the game back 10 years there.

Just when the club academies are starting to achieve their goals someone wants to scrap them. Look at the results at the SSA U15 championships. NSW and Queensland have both beaten Western Australia. How much better will be the game if these staes start producing as many quality players as WA.

No, panic over the Swans getting benefit from one player, and destroy the academies.

 

[Mateyman]

Sydney's record in the Academies is not really much advantage either.

Brandon Jack after 5 years.

I thought it had only been going 3 years? ANyway, after next year Heeney, Jack, Dunkley and Mills...

 

[Mateyman]

Heeney was maybe a 1st round pick a couple of months ago, then some baseless hype pushed him to maybe a pick 10 or so, then a week later he's a possible top 5. This happened at the same time as eddie attacked sydney. What a coincidence. Heeney is a young division 2 player ffs. Is he talented? Yes, but no more than 20 other players his age around the country, some of which have been playing against men for a couple of years and actually grew up playing the game.

Mills on the other hand is no joke, but it is way too early to be making calls on draft positions and player values for 2015. Potential 1st rounders change massively every 12 months, and once picked usually are way off the mark! Again, there are 20 other guys that can talked about in his age bracket.

Are you suggesting that everyone on the drafting board on BF is in on Eddie's conspiracy to inflate Heeney's value?

 

[theta]

Are you suggesting that everyone on the drafting board on BF is in on Eddie's conspiracy to inflate Heeney's value?

Nope.

You figure it out.

 

[Mateyman]

Nope.

You figure it out.

I figure that Heeney is probably an elite top 5 pick, whose value has risen since the carnival.

 

[theta]

Well said…have no idea why basically everyone in the footy world is so quick to believe everything Eddie says!..why are people so gulable!

Even if Heeney goes on to be an awesome player the fact that he is touted as a top10 doesn't guarantee this. IMO top draft picks are meaning less and less in the AFL, its how these players are developed once they arrive at their respective clubs.

Who had more first round draft picks when GWS played Carlton earlier this year??? The Answer is Carlton!!! All those draft picks went really well for them..ha

Because they are not very sharp. Too much Who Want to be a Millionaire, and not enough books.

 

[theta]

I figure that Heeney is probably an elite top 5 pick, whose value has risen since the carnival.

As I've repeatedly said, there are 20 other awesome players and no one is talking about them. I attribute this to Eddie screaming bloody murder and then the media picks it up and runs with it, and then everyone starts talking about it, and no-one seems to know why.

Yes Heeney did well at the carnivale, so did plenty of other players, can you name 5? Can anyone name 5? Has anyone in the last few weeks even discussed them on BFappy? No. Why? It just so happens this player is part of the academy, and Eddie needs and enemy and controvesey to spin - he is a master of it - especially now he cant complain about CoLA, and he sees Sydney as a major threat in the next few years as they move towards becoming the largest sporting brand in the country, especially if they can snag another flag or two in the next 5-10 years. Eddie has the power to be heard, and he uses it for his own ends, not for the benefit of the sport. He does it EVERY YEAR, and 80% of people are none the wiser.

 

[Mateyman]

As I've repeatedly said, there are 20 other awesome players and no one is talking about them. I attribute this to Eddie screaming bloody murder and then the media picks it up and runs with it, and then everyone starts talking about it, and no-one seems to know why.

Yes Heeney did well at the carnivale, so did plenty of other players, can you name 5? Can anyone name 5? Has anyone in the last few weeks even discussed them on BFappy? No. Why? It just so happens this player is part of the academy, and Eddie needs and enemy and controvesey to spin - he is a master of it - especially now he cant complain about CoLA, and he sees Sydney as a major threat in the next few years as they move towards becoming the largest sporting brand in the country, especially if they can snag another flag or two in the next 5-10 years. Eddie has the power to be heard, and he uses it for his own ends, not for the benefit of the sport. He does it EVERY YEAR, and 80% of people are none the wiser.

Yeah, I suppose we'll see when the bidding process happens. Although I suspect Eddie may be able to hoodwink even the best recruiters in the land!

 

[AliceCat]

As I've repeatedly said, there are 20 other awesome players and no one is talking about them. I attribute this to Eddie screaming bloody murder and then the media picks it up and runs with it, and then everyone starts talking about it, and no-one seems to know why.

So true…does anyone know the names of any other players likely to go in the top10?? No. The only player every knows in Heeney!

Its pretty funny when you think about it.

Peter Wright, Patrick McCartin, Jarrod Pickett & Hugh Goddard are all probably top10 picks supposably..who would have known!