2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

[mark121]

What kind of law will they make up preventing us getting Mills and Dunkely? im sure they will make it as tough as possible but physically stopping us from getting them both will open a huge can of worms.

The only way I can see them stopping us from recruiting both would be to change the father son rule. For example if a father son is worth your first round draft pick you must use your first pick that way they are technicaly not changing the academys they are only altering the father son rule. Then they would only need to hold the Father son bidding after the academys and if the first pick is already gone tough luck.

I doubt they would go this far opening themselves up a possible legal challenge but still expect they will require teams to use 1st and 3rd/4th pick for players worth considerably more than a teams first draft pick and in cases where there are 2 players worth more than their first pick teams would also need to exchange 2nd and 3rd/4th picks.

Hence the reason why their legal specialist is reviewing the Academy agreement.

I suspect they never even considered the Academy + F/S combo when it was drawn up.

How could you not though, it was so obvious it was one of the first things i thought of. I think teams just thought how unlikely it is GWS, Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane are to not only be in contention for the flag but for 2 top 10 draft prospects to arrive at the same time.

I think they knew academys are temporary they had plenty of time knowing it would be easier to change the rules in the future than the COLA and could only stop one now.

 

[McRobie]

The only way I can see them stopping us from recruiting both would be to change the father son rule. For example if a father son is worth your first round draft pick you must use your first pick that way they are technicaly not changing the academys they are only altering the father son rule. Then they would only need to hold the Father son bidding after the academys and if the first pick is already gone tough luck.

I doubt they would go this far opening themselves up a possible legal challenge but still expect they will require teams to use 1st and 3rd/4th pick for players worth considerably more than a teams first draft pick and in cases where there are 2 players worth more than their first pick teams would also need to exchange 2nd and 3rd/4th picks.







How could you not though, it was so obvious it was one of the first things i thought of. I think teams just thought how unlikely it is GWS, Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane are to not only be in contention for the flag but for 2 top 10 draft prospects to arrive at the same time.

I think they knew academys are temporary they had plenty of time knowing it would be easier to change the rules in the future than the COLA and could only stop one now.

The things is surely they cant make one rule for the Swans re Academy and another for the GC, GWS and Brisbane so I do hold out hope that the Academy drafting rules wont be messed with to much. As for Father Son rule I cant see AFL changing that, big clubs from Vic have several father sons in the pipeline and there is no way they would be letting those go for the sake of hindering the Swans, because lets be honest thats the only reason that F/S and Academys are an issue right now, because of us!

 

[Punts]

Looks like it will be more draft picks, AFL.com Changes to the father son system. We will be getting them that's for sure but giving up a bit which they are worth

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Looks like it will be more draft picks, AFL.com Changes to the father son system. We will be getting them that's for sure but giving up a bit which they are worth

Going by that article on their example of Joe Daniher where are we going to get a top 10 pick from? and even then might not be enough.

If, for instance, Essendon's Joe Daniher was to be drafted under the new system then the Bombers may have to offer pick No.10 plus a later pick in order to acquire him at fair value

 

[McRobie]

Looks like it will be more draft picks, AFL.com Changes to the father son system. We will be getting them that's for sure but giving up a bit which they are worth

Just read the article, as you say it looks like we will just have to give up more than one pick, who cares to be honest as long as we get the 3 guns that are going to be available to us, plus Abe Davis of course.

 

[Punts]

Going by that article on their example of Joe Daniher where are we going to get a top 10 pick from? and even then might not be enough.

If, for instance, Essendon's Joe Daniher was to be drafted under the new system then the Bombers may have to offer pick No.10 plus a later pick in order to acquire him at fair value

It will be our first pick ( what ever it is ) and most likely a later pick depending on how they rate them

 

[Ticky009]

Looks like it will be more draft picks, AFL.com Changes to the father son system. We will be getting them that's for sure but giving up a bit which they are worth

And oh look. A working group has been set up. If it doesn't feature Collingwood or the Hawks and does at least 1 club with an Academy then I'll be happy.

 

[Punts]

Going by that article on their example of Joe Daniher where are we going to get a top 10 pick from? and even then might not be enough.

If, for instance, Essendon's Joe Daniher was to be drafted under the new system then the Bombers may have to offer pick No.10 plus a later pick in order to acquire him at fair value

The Bombers had pick 10 that year but he was rated a top 3 so if that was now they would have had to give up a later pick

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The Bombers had pick 10 that year but he was rated a top 3 so if that was now they would have had to give up a later pick

So our first pick even if its 18 then another pick will be ok for a player rated top 5?

Well thats a relief guess i misinterpreted the article and thought it suggested we had to source a pick close to his actual value.

 

[RW]

Looks like it will be more draft picks, AFL.com Changes to the father son system. We will be getting them that's for sure but giving up a bit which they are worth

Here's the article:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-07/fatherson-bidding-changes

Taking my Swans hat off I don't think it's a great idea to be honest. I'm struggling to see how you could come up with a formula that determines the fair worth of a potential draftee who hasn't played a single AFL game, and that isn't based on guesswork. It just seems like a knee-jerk reaction when the academy hasn't produced a single gun player yet.

One thing that gets missed with all the fuss that's been made about Heeney is that there are many other factors that determine whether someone will make it as a successful AFL player, just being a high draft pick doesn't guarantee success, just ask Jack Watts or Richard Tambling.

Having said that, putting my Swans hat back on, I'd have no problem with us giving up a bit more in order to get both Mills and Dunkley if we wanted them and the judges say that they are worth it.

 

[Tuco]

So our first pick even if its 18 then another pick will be ok for a player rated top 5?

Well thats a relief guess i misinterpreted the article and thought it suggested we had to source a pick close to his actual value.

That was my fear too.

 

[Punts]

Age reporting pretty much the same that they will be rated by etc etc but might not have to give up 2/3rd picks just moved back in the draft order. We might get stuffed over next year but there in no way that I can see Dunkley and Mills not being at the Swans.
Eddie might have shot himself in the foot this year with Moore

 

[McRobie]

Age reporting pretty much the same that they will be rated by etc etc but might not have to give up 2/3rd picks just moved back in the draft order. We might get stuffed over next year but there in no way that I can see Dunkley and Mills not being at the Swans.
Eddie might have shot himself in the foot this year with Moore

Whats the bet the new rules for FS are not quite ready yet and then brought in next year after Moore has been signed up?

 

[Tuco]

Bringing the F/S and Academy bidding into the live draft and then having Academy clubs slide up or down the draft order according to a mathematical formula (which will include a "discount" for Academy clubs) is a massive change to F/S.

Any idea how this will work?

Say Heeney is bid 10. And we use pick 18, then our pick 2 drops 8 positions (from 36 to 44). Then rises 2 positions with an arbitrary 25% discount. Leaving us with pick 42.

So in a year with Dunkley and Mills who might both be top 30 we'll have to trade for higher picks as they is no way our 2nd pick will be high enough? Or we'll have to pile on multiple picks to cover the gap?

And what if Heeney is bid pick 1 by a club? We'd basically have to bet the farm? System would be rife for manipulation too it would seem?

Sorry if this is overly simplistic. Others on this board would certainly have a deeper understanding of the draft. I'm just a game day mug.

But it suggests to me getting 2 players from an academy/FS combo in a year will be expensive.

 

[nottenthagain]

Here's the article:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-07/fatherson-bidding-changes

Taking my Swans hat off I don't think it's a great idea to be honest. I'm struggling to see how you could come up with a formula that determines the fair worth of a potential draftee who hasn't played a single AFL game, and that isn't based on guesswork. It just seems like a knee-jerk reaction when the academy hasn't produced a single gun player yet.

One thing that gets missed with all the fuss that's been made about Heeney is that there are many other factors that determine whether someone will make it as a successful AFL player, just being a high draft pick doesn't guarantee success, just ask Jack Watts or Richard Tambling.

Having said that, putting my Swans hat back on, I'd have no problem with us giving up a bit more in order to get both Mills and Dunkley if we wanted them and the judges say that they are worth it.

I agree, seems pretty unworkable to me.... the draft is as much down to an individual clubs needs, premiership window, player interviews and I'm sure some other factors. How do you judge those?

I think in the end it'll have to be something like pick demotions..... If a club bids x amount of places above you'll have to give up (say 2/3) of that difference as a demotion at your next pick.

So, say someone bids 3 for Heeney and we only have pick 15, to take him we'd have to use our first rounder and accept a demotion of 8 ((15-3) x 2/3) places in the next round.

What happens if you get two through in the same year (a-la Dunkley and Mills next year) I don't know but for us I'd say hand 'em all over - Dunkley and Mills are worth it

 

[McRobie]

I agree, seems pretty unworkable to me.... the draft is as much down to an individual clubs needs, premiership window, player interviews and I'm sure some other factors. How do you judge those?

I think in the end it'll have to be something like pick demotions..... If a club bids x amount of places above you'll have to give up (say 2/3) of that difference as a demotion at your next pick.

So, say someone bids 3 for Heeney and we only have pick 15, to take him we'd have to use our first rounder and accept a demotion of 8 ((15-3) x 2/3) places in the next round.

What happens if you get two through in the same year (a-la Dunkley and Mills next year) I don't know but for us I'd say hand 'em all over - Dunkley and Mills are worth it

This is my thoughts, who cares if we dont have anymore selections, these two are going to be superstars. At worst we trade a few fringe players for a couple of picks in the 30's 40's.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Could be a great off-season for melts around BF if we win the flag and pickup Heeney for nothing

 

[McRobie]

Could be a great off-season for melts around BF if we win the flag and pickup Heeney for nothing

Servers exploding the following year after the Mills Dunkley double play.

 

[TheMase]

Bringing the F/S and Academy bidding into the live draft and then having Academy clubs slide up or down the draft order according to a mathematical formula (which will include a "discount" for Academy clubs) is a massive change to F/S.

Any idea how this will work?

Say Heeney is bid 10. And we use pick 18, then our pick 2 drops 8 positions (from 36 to 44). Then rises 2 positions with an arbitrary 25% discount. Leaving us with pick 42.

So in a year with Dunkley and Mills who might both be top 30 we'll have to trade for higher picks as they is no way our 2nd pick will be high enough? Or we'll have to pile on multiple picks to cover the gap?

And what if Heeney is bid pick 1 by a club? We'd basically have to bet the farm? System would be rife for manipulation too it would seem?

Sorry if this is overly simplistic. Others on this board would certainly have a deeper understanding of the draft. I'm just a game day mug.

But it suggests to me getting 2 players from an academy/FS combo in a year will be expensive.

Starting to sound a lot like my idea in the Eddie thread on 22/7

I think the multiple draft picks idea is ludicrous.

I would think a better idea, if we really have to deal with this shit, would be an accepted move down the draft order for all following picks up to a certain point. Say we have picks 18,36,54 then payment in a scale of 5-4-3-2-1 for picks say 10-1 (each two picks representing an order reduction?). Number one and two pick bids for the player are matched with 5 should we elect to take the player. We would bid this plus our first pick. If a team bids the first or second pick, the left over draft picks in the first two rounds would be 41 & 59. Likewise is a team bids their 8th pick, we would drop 2 to 38 and 56.
Perhaps it would only apply if you have a pick outside the top 10 or such.

This should also apply to the father son rule.
Just a solution I thought up... It's not perfect and greater minds can think of more, but it is a far better than losing participation in a round in the draft.

Not sure how it would work for multiples though.

 

[teooooooman]

Josh dunkley on tac cup future stars

 

[The King!]

Maybe they will work out the picks upon the players retirement so we know their value

Or they could just stop changing rules because Eddie has a fit

 

[Punts]

After watching Mills yesterday at senior level no wonder there pissed ( going to cost us )

 

[teooooooman]

After watching Mills yesterday at senior level no wonder there pissed ( going to cost us )

Yeah I can see why, he is rated even more then heeney is, saw him play for nws on foxtell was very good.

 

[The King!]

Could be a great off-season for melts around BF if we win the flag and pickup Heeney for nothing

Nothing but the money invested in his development of course

 

[Punts]

C Twomey updated his Phantom draft , still has Heeney at 4. Wouldn't mind that H Goddard , now slipping back after a poor champs